Tony D
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Posts posted by Tony D
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To cross pollinate from ZC.C:
"When I am king!"
Sheez.
The bad part about all this outside of the toddler's death. I have been sued for usless crap like this before, and I totally sympathise with Nissan. Were I in cnarge of corporate litigation, it would be waaaaay too personal. I see this one come across the desk, and it would be my puropse in life to abuse the credit reporting system to find dirt on these scumbag child-killer parents, and sic the IRS and everybody else on them!
This is why we NEVER get the good stuff here in the USA. Litigation and litigousness. People who have not been outside hte USA and seen prices not ridiculously affected with liability inflated pricing will never know...
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This will give Tetsu 2 weeks to get you the part if I can find his card directly when I return. I'm sure he will be able to get you the parts---bring an extra bag when you leave!
As diseased as you, on a 9 day trip to Europe, I have brought a dufflebag to stuff a Eurospec Turbo Manifold into so I can see about getting it repaired since they are NLA...
I should have brought a bigger bag...
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Excessive valve guide wear could, in theory, allow pressures to pop them off--but since it's been rebuilt recently, then that shouldn't be a problem...
If they are the correct seals for the application then I suggest the following:
Top of guide must be cleaned SCRUPULOUSLY with absolutely NO residue.
A NEW set of seals is procured, and with them DRY, use contact cement, gasket adhesive, hell SUPERGLUE on them.
This will keep them in place, but I have run well over 17psi and mine don't blow off. Which is why I am suspect of proper application.
Good Luck.
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Bastaad, have you verified your timing on the camshaft? If it's installed advanced or retarded it can have a DRASTIC effect on the way an engine performs. The graph still crosses at 5252 rpm, the dyno guy sounds a bit hokey...
But I agree, the stock camshaft shouldn't limit you at all.
You may have something with your exhaust theory, a restrictive downpipe, crushbent elbows, etc etc etc all result in impediments to flow.
I have an experiment for ya: pull off you dwonpipe, and bolt a deflector baffle to it, and dyno like that. Not only would it sound evil, it should answer your questions on pipe sizing nicely.
remember JeffP saw some good numbers returned with just his 3" downpipe when used on a stock engine. Flow helps turbos!
In japan it was not uncommon in the 80's to see turbo cars with freakin' sewerpipes for the turbos. I mean 100 and 125mm piping from a twin turbo setup. You guys think packaging 3" is difficult! Try 4!
And bigger!
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no clue as to price. the cars with the conversions have more in the conversions than I paid for all ove my Z's combined!
many times if you just go into the parts counter of the locak Princ/Skyline/Z dealer you can get the P.N and Pricing by looking at fiche.
Having a language barrier hepls, as they tend to let you behind the counter to point at what you want. At least they did last time I tried buying parts with a non-english speaking parts salesman!! 8)
Just be advised the dealerships are set up differently in japan, you will have to find a "performance" dealer that sells skylines and Z's to have the right parts books.
The Sunny dealer may not have a clue to what you are talking about!
You Might Try Car Shop Ultimate if you are in Metro Tokyo area. Tetsu Takakamo is very accomodating, but alas, my namecard file is on the truck seat at home, and I'm in Milan Italy right now, otherwise I could give you the number. He has an RB in his ZX, and his company specializes in these types of conversions, so he knows the ins and outs.
And probably has the parts in stock!
Good Luck. If you plan on being in-country for a while I will be returning on December 1st at noon California Time, and could look for Tetsu's card then and give you the contact information then. E-Mail me so I don't forget!
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Oh dudes, you have made my day! I had a late 74 260Z 2+2 GIVEN to me that I have been wondering about...
Four speed car. If this indeed has my 3.36, I will not have to do the R230 swap with the 3.36 or 2.89 Armada Diffy for Bonneville!
WOO HOO!
And that means that other 3.9 R200 I have will already have a home... To replace the one I take out of the 2+2...
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yep, the Armada has my differential in it for Bonneville.
With the unavailability of 3.36 and 3.08 gearsets for the R200 any longer, I will be forced to use an Armada R230 in the ZX. I was shocked
and amazed to find that the Armada was IRS in the back! Followed and Armada on I5 for almost an hour in a rental car before the owner stopped to use the head. While in there, I took the chance to examine her rearend and much to my suprise, it was just what I was looking for! -
Sorry, no 200ZR models were used here in the states.
And the people that have bought these parts have done so through a nissan dealer in japan and gone with NEW parts.
The pan and mounts are not that cheap, but not that outrageours, either.
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we exceeded 150 with under 300hp to the rear wheels under those conditions. Around 286 I believe.
Then again, with 236 we only went 143 in 1.3 miles, and with 286 it took closer to three miles to go 150+ But with the radiator opening blocked off and the full bellypan there wa a run over 170...
But without the G-Nose, you are literally pissing in the wind trying to simply add HP and go faster. It don't work that way with a small engine vehicle, nor with a V8. There reaches a point where a car won't go any faster unlesss you strap external combustion rockets on it's back due to the HP required to go faster.
But a bodypan covering the bottom of the car is no "little thing"! The difference between the car with and without the pan is alomst another 10mph at speed. Figure out how much Horsepower yhou are getting "back" to use for forward motion for each little thing you do: remove wipers, tape seams, louver inner fenderwells to let airpressure out, remove rearview mirror, shave sidemarkers...
1# of thrust = 2HP...
A JATO Bottle gives 1000# for 12 seconds...
Ever watch that "mythbusters" episode? Muahahaha...
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What's the chances of this: Heres' James T's Twin Turbo Dyno chart he just posted over at ZC.C on aonther topic.
Please note peak torque and when it occurs:
This would tend to make the clutch very unhappy, especially if you have on that is dependent on flyweights to clamp it down at higher rpms... 8)
But uncannily it's near 4200, right at the magic peak point for most of the other units.
The graphs should cross at 5252rpm. If they dont, or peak HP occurs before that point, something is wrong in fueling or camshaft selection!
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"Witness"
Above statement is true. John was in a different run group than I was, and I watched the above as it occurred!
The old Vegas would have flex problems when you did the V-8 Conversions. The Z is a much stiffer unit-body that the Vega ever was! I saw rear windows pop out of Vegas when the owner goosed it coming out of a corner too hard and it hooked and twisted the chassis. You really needed a full cage and a tied together underside to make the Vega work in anything other than a straight line...
Such was the differential in Engineering Philosophy between the Japanese and Domestics in the early 70's. Like they said: the toyota celica, while slightly more xpensive than the domestic Pinto and Vega, just didn't break, and everything worked from the day you bought it... Such could not be said for the US made stuff. We don't even need to revisit the immolation option of the Pinto.
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oh dude, you are way off base there! Tires will not add "10mph" nor will regearing the car.
A vehicle with a 3.36 and late ZX tranny using stock height wheels will have speed capabilities at 6500rpm of 160+, but not with the HP you are talking about.
If anything gearing would only lower the roms you are at during your drag-limited terminal speed.
This has been discussed elsewhere on the forum. But as a Crewmember on a Land Speed Record Setting S30 I will tell you there are three words that are MANDATORY if you want to break beyond 150 in an S30 body:
G
Nose,
Aerodynamics.
Horsepower only gets you so far, after that you can not jump the cube unless you CUBE the HP available from the engine.
But aerodynamic aids can make a DRASTIC difference in top speed.
Little tail spoiler everybody loves to run, Remove it and add 3mph at 140!
I shudder to think what the 5" "Racing Edition" cuts off!
New Corvette Advertising: What is the difference between a 170 mph Corvette and a 186 mph Corvette? The Headlights for one thing. New Vette has flush headlights covered with plastic (Aero Headlight Package) BIG differences in drag on things like Mirrors, Windshield Wipers, Wide Tires at speeds above 130mph.
Going much faster than 150 in an S30 is not as easy as most would like to think...
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the highest boost limit is limited by the INTERCOOLING.
if you can perfectly or better than perfectly intercool the charge air, you can compress it all you want.
Staged Turbocharger systems in Tractors run 100+PSIG!
If you crank in a turbo of 30psi and cool it to near ambient, it acts like ambient air when you compress it, that is to day with no detonation...
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I'm in SoCal, on 2.5 Acres, and pay about that, but it's on a 10 year loan.
You see, I live in a custom Trailer.
I just added two 40 foot sea containers to be a "workshop and storage" and my land values have goe to serious heights from money flush yuppies looking for "the country house"...
My neighborhood once was lush Orange Groves that smelled so sweet in the spring, you could feel it on your skin---now they are mostly all gone.
They are supplanted by the planned subdivisions of the $400K Stucco Yuppie Coops, that for the most part will fall apart in five to ten years.
Heck my trailer is a 75, and it's holding it's own against the termites.
For now...
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I will cross pollinate a thread here from another forum and mention to Bastaad that I witnessed JeffP's car on the dyno smoke his CF clutch at....
are you ready for this?
"About 4000 rpms"
SOUND FAMILIAR?
Got a good idea where PEAK TORQUE might be in a turbo Z? If Pallnet built his engine from Nissan parts, and JeffP has a radical cam, and all custom stuff and they both fry the clutch around 4K, you gott a know there is some sort of "characteristic curve" to a turbo Nissan L-Engine.
I bet you look at your dyno graph now, and go "Hmmmmmmmm, no shi...."
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yes, it is.
The torque peak only moves north and south on the dyno sheet, depending on the intake manifold pressure. The curve should be identical for torque, only near the top of the graph as you add more boost.
The peak moves east and west depending on variables like camshaft, camshaft timing, possibly ignition timing, and maybe carburettor size...
But generally speaking, "peak" torque on a turbo Z will be nearly identical to a stocker, just further north on the graph when you crank in boost.
Stock N/A L28 makes peak HP at what? 5.5K or thereabouts? Where do most guys dyno out at with peak HP? 5.5 to 5.8K? Not that big a difference to worry about.
But the "flat spot" of the torque curve remains fairly constant.
You also have to consider "how much torque do you need to accelerate the way you want" which enters into "performance -vs- economy" argument. Some may want the engine cruising at 4000 rpms so the boost response is instantaneuos, and gives a much harder pull when used.
others can wait a bit, and gear so they are around 3000 so response is still instantaneuos, but you may have to pull a bit to really get going...
This is BTW the origin of the commonly misused term of "turbo lag"... People confuse what happened in 60's vehicles with improper driving technique.
Drive a turbo corvair and you will know what REAL turbo lag is about. The engine made seriously variable boost in each gear. Maxing out around 10psi in fourth around 5500rpm (where it was rated as a magnificiently peaky 180HP!)
Caomparing that response to what a turbo ZX does is like night and day!
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here:
put "polycarbonate sheeting" in the search window, and start the search. You should find a 24X48" sheet is around $40 in the .188 thickness---which if I recall is the thickness of the factory glass.
These guys are probably not the cheapest place to get it, but they have one of just about EVERYTHING, you will be amazed at what they have in stock and what they offer in the way of anything...
The temperature resistance for this stuff is rated at 240 degrees maximum. From what I remember from when I did this last (around 1987) I would heat it to around 300Deg F or 320...
I would hook all the heat guns up on a circuit I made from an old oven timer that would simply swith them on and off from an outlet strip I made from a four plug outlet box and some 12 gauge SO4 extension Cord wire and hospital grade three-prong plugs I horked from work... This worked good enough to keep the "oven" temperature fairly constant.
When Atlas Copco bought me that Steinel Heat gun from Germany with the digital readout and variable temperature output and display I was thinking "If only I had this then..." Man, just set a single gun to 320, and walk away. Come back and check in an hour or so, and if it's ready, Pick and droop.
Another way to do this if you don'twant to droop the glass over another piece of glass is to lay your glass "outside down" and polish the inside with auto wax. Then pour in plaster of paris to a level to the edge of the glass (I ran duct tape around the edge, and let it set up thickly with a big lip on it so it had enough thickness to be handles gingerly.)
Then you simply carefully roll it back over, and separate the plaster fromthe glass (it should pop off) and then paint/po.lish and you have one heluva durable buck for drooping production quantities of glass over it!
The only drawback with plaster of paris is that it's easy to mar the buck, and it cracks eassily---hell it even cracks when it's drying! But it's cheap, and a couple of bags should do you just fine.
With some good release compound, you could lay fiberglass over it, and make a very neat looking filler plate---but some different procedures would apply to construction of the buck and for grafting it to make a solid hatch...
Good Luck. You will be amazed how easily it works once you heat this sheet to the right temperature. It will become flimsy like a big sheet of Lasagne! Just don't heat it over 320! (This was for the stuff I was using---the new stuff may have different characteristics) I was concerned about preserving the shatter-proof characteristics of the product, and from literature they sent me 320 rings a bell as a temperature you didn't want to exceed as it would start some crystalline changes that would weaken the product, or set up cracking or crazing or something like that. There is about a 60 degree range where you can work it with no degredation and it becomes very easy to form in this range. I was making vases by draping it over bowling balls and sitting them on a flat table top, all that kind of artsy hippie sh*te you do when you are in your early 20's!
Anyway, I'm sure "Lexan" put into google will return some meaty bits of information on thermoforming (then again "thermoforming lexan" might be a better search parameter for google) the product correctly. As I recall I recently (within the last two years) did a search and found a nice website that had all sorts of infomration on it that was helpful.
Anyway, the 60 degree working range was why I used an old salvaged oven timer---it seemed to handle the ampreage with no problem, and was relatively consistent in ti's operation when sat on the outlet hole just above the center of the sheet.
Again, Good Luck. Post back with how amazingly easy it was so more people start doing it!
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just a friendly reply to John Scott's comment on my contribution to this post.
Please don't misinterpret my statement as something it's not. What I meant is building something that is unbalanced is usually unproductive and somewhat(IMHO) dissatisfying. You have to understand I started with a triple mikuini blowthrough car with around 250 rwhp on skinny tires. I did it because it was the thing to do... Lots of power in 1985 for any Z with a six. But I was troubled with lack of traction and kept thinkging "I need to get this power tothe ground". I ended up flared fendered with 395's in the back (Dunlop Racing Slicks) and 295's up front. With this combination I could yank and bank like nobody's business... so then the evil cycle of demented power kicked in and I figured "Well, they don't do a rolling bunrout at 60 in third gear, so I can use some more power..."
And then built more. What a mistake---I could not get these tires in the USA, and ended up settling on some 265's in the back, and 245's in the front. Nowhere near filling the tire wells as satisfyingly as the old 345's did.
Somewhere along the line I realized in my head that for a street going wannabe dual-purpose car tempered performance is the key.
For straightline power.....well.....uh, I took up Land Speed Racing.
So I guess it's the Teutonic Genes that make me a stickler for Technical balance for a road car, and the power crazy vehicle for a Land Speed Record.
For the diseased German Genes in my brain, this makes perfect sense.
While turning brodies may be a heluva lot of fun---all it really does it waste expensive rubber.
I temper my advise to newbies to learn to drive the car first, then add power. To this date, most have thanked me for that advice. Knowing the beauty of a technically perfect turn and appreciating it's execution costs FAR less to those on a strict budget like most newbies are, and this will be with them in whatever vehicle they drive, not just the Z.
I would rather enjoy EVERY vehicle I drive, not just one special one.
While one may grab my heart, driving them all is my goal. And driving them well is a lifelong pursuit.
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1)lay some cinder blocks in a square on the concrete driveway.
2) knock out some holes so you can lay your heat guns on their sides, and blow into the center of the square---four guns could be used. I would think the $19 Harbor freight specials wouldn't be too bad a hit... Make these holes about halfway from each end of the square.
3) lay some conventional bricks like you were going to make an ornamental diamond inside the first square. The heat from the heat guns might just blow on those bricks. If you have fire bricks, use them here! Basically you just need four bricks or rocks to act as heat diffusers / buffers and supports. Failing in finding fire bricks, my first oven was made using tin cans as the supports!
3)lay some 3/4" plywood atop these four bricks. Use sheetmetal scraps to prevent the diffused heat from blowing directly on the plywood as it can be 1100 degrees, and make the wood smoulder
4)cover the cinderblocks with some more plywood with a hole in the center to let out heat. Use a sheetmetal scrap to open or colse the hole to help build heat faster...
I hope this isn't getting to obtuse---but are you getting the picture?
Basically you want to trap the heat discharged from the guns in as small an area as you need to heat the polycarbonate. You lay it on the shetmetal cover of the first piece of plywood set on the bricks. If you are daring, you can skip actually picking up the whole board from inside when it comes time to drape the plastic---you can pick it up with tongs at two opposite corners, and just drape it floppily over the buck.
This is how I made rear windows, side windows, and quarter windows out of 95% Light Blocking Greay Smoked Polycarbonate. It looked Bitchen, and NOBODY could break into my freakin Z again with a simple spring powered centerpunch or hammer---unless they went after the windshield, and wanted to crawl through broken glass.
(Theft of personal property is the mother of invention!)
Good Luck if you need further clarification ask, and I'll try to be more detailed.
Good Luck! You can get the polycarbonate in the right thickness to fit the stock rubber trim for the rear window from McMaster Carr. You cut it with a razor blade, and you can just "shrink" the stock sized hole porportionally, or turn it into a Triangle for that matter!
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You know what, with that setup, you will ABSOLUTELY need a bypass valve that is open on vacuum operation.
If you don't plumb the float bowls to the same pressure as the barrels, you run into problems. so the plenum for the front of the carbs has to take this into consideration---if you do not, every time you lift throttle, the fuel will be pushed up the mainjets and totally flood the engine due to the 14" of water you get!
This is how "modulator rings" work on a turbo blowthrough. When at low airflows, they do nothing , but on-boost they act as a venturi at the front of the carbutrettor putting the main section of the primary and secondary booster venturi under a slight vacuum condition compared to the pressure present in the plenum, avoiding hte "on-boost cough" and as boost increases, so does the fuel enrichment regardless of mainjet size!
This is how Maserati got by iwth comparitaviely small main jets, but still managed to run rich enough under boost to not detonate!
I assumed full time blower operation. I would not use the triples in a bypass situation with a blower---to be brutally honest, I would go with a Wet Four Barrel setup before killing thetriples I think.
Sell the triples to someone who iwll give you $500 for them, (like E-bay) and then use that money towards an SDS or Megasquirt. The packaging of an EFI bypass supercharger on an L is FAR easier.
There is a gent in OZ who used a bypass compressor from a toytoa on his 510, then was selling the setup later complete with the dizzy and drive off the cam he devised!
The EFI route will be far supreior in every aspect. Costs are declining forthe technology every day, and over time more and more used systems are coming on the market at unbelievablely low prices!
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all I have to add tothis is that 8.5 compresion is NOT "high compression" for a Turbo Application, and in fact I believe the general consensus will be that it is the ideal compression ratio with which to start!
If you want "top end performance" ditch the stock manifold---it hinders you above 5500...
Other than that, 250 tothe wheels will be a breeze to achieve. 300 will take some work, but you might consider Megasquirt2 when it comes out...
Eventhe basic Megasquirt-n-Spark program is loads better than the stock ECU in terms of throttle response and fuel mileage off-boost.
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327 brings up a good point: peak torque, or where the "flat spot of the torque curve starts" is actually where you want your engine to be for top fuel economy.
For more perfromance, yo ucheat the curve towards the "peak point", but ALWAYS want at least 500 rpom below the peak so when you stomp on it, you get IMMEDIATE response (and might I also add....BOOST!) while still having a meaningful range of rpms to run through before upshifting.
If in top gear, you pull storngly to the top speed.
My car gets 22mpg towing an 800# trailer with these specifications above, despite "screaming" at close to 3500 (anywhere from 3100 to 3500, with occasional extended speeds of 4000rpms...)
So higher engine revs don't necessarily kill gas mileage, as well as lower revs don't automatically give better mileage!
327 has a good point and should be well heeded.
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I temper my comments here far more than at the "other site" simply because there is ACTIVE moderation, and there is really no need for "the people to police themselves". Someone says something out of line, and they are dealt with.
I only wish the same could be said for the other place. I don't know that approving every post would work, and like I said other places I wish I knew how to make a filter for new posters (say with less than 100 posts) that would actively "read" their question, AUTOMATICALLY perform a search on the keywords, and if there is more than Xx% of matching keywords, Kick the post back to the originator without posting it with a suggestion of the first 25 or 50 relavent hits in the body of a message that stars something like "Your question appears to have been asked and answered Xx times before in the past six months, please read these topics first before rephrasing, clarifying, or otherwise editing your post for a more productive use of other member's time" And then auto-lock the person out of posting until all 25 hits have been clicked on.
To me it SOUNDS simple enough, but I am boggled by what it would actually take to implement this feature in real code writing! So It will probably be a dream for a while tocome until public domain "carnivore" programs become available...
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surplus record is fantastic. I am keeping my eyes peeled for a rotary table now that the Bridgeport is bought and paid for!
So is the 4X10 layout table that weighs 2800#, the power band saw that cust 6X steel billets, my 48" rusty slip rollers, and the 350Amp TIG machine....
Yeah, I went on a shopping spree. You can find what you want, and for the right price, too!
I bought the mill out from under a Harley Shop that was dawdling about coming over for "photos" of the machine! The owner said "What do they need photos for, a Bridgeport is a Bridgeport I mean, how different can it look?
Of course the shaper head on the back of the turret makes it all the more tantilizing! Muahahaha!
Now to get them all on a flat bed, and over to the house!
straight swap?
in Turbo / Supercharger
Posted
The stock Dump Valve is discussed in factory documents as a "Vacuum Control Valve" and the diuscussion to this point is exactly correct. It has a 3psi check valve function. It does NOT leak boost because the DIFFERENTIAL between the sides of the valve must be at least 3psi for it to open. As it does open due to the high differential of the drop-throttle condition it actually performs a DUAL purpose:
1) it vents (sucks) the excess pressure from the J-Pipe
2) it prevents a stratospheric spike in manifold vacuum, keeping the valve seals from seiving oil into the intake. When I went to 15psi, I simply added a second valve and another tap on the J-Pipe. Works, cheap.
I like the oil consumption aspect of the valve's operation. I think I will keep it regardless. I am using an 80 ZX N/A manifold, but drilling and tapping it was no biggie. Matter of fact, if I were to do it again, I would NOT put it on the top of the manifold, but UNDERNEATH, out of sight, out of mind. When was the last time you saw one of the stock BOV's fail???
Hell most people don't even know they're there , much less know the symptoms if it would fail!
On of the FIRST things I did to mine was get rid of the "emergency relief valve" which will keep you from going over 10psi anyway.