Tony D
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Posts posted by Tony D
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Wow, I managed to get (through a software glitching problem, along withthe way the MS retards spark and having an errant tach signal) .5 bar boost at idle with WOT!
Pretty neat, but my siggestion is to not do this for extended periods, as the turbo starts glowing red hot, and the solder from adjacent wiring melts...
Anyway, no further on the MS, and I have to believe it's in a corrupted processor, as I have 'scoped the input to IRQ1 (Pin 14) on the cpu, and I am getting a consistently clean -3V pulse of 1ms duration with a +.5V pulse (of 2ms) overrun every third waveform. That's a total of 3.5V change altogether, and I can't believe this waveform input can be causing a problem. I see no noise whatsoever on the downstream (output) side of the opto.
I would think false tach triggers would be the fault of false triggering of hte opto (inductive kickback) and in most cases apparently this IS the cause. I just can't believe this is the culprit. Even checked a "commercially assembled" MS box my bud loaned me---one of those $250 E-Bay deals. Same thing: false tach signal on the software.
Right now I don't really know what way to go. Some hypothesise that it's comm problem, or laptop problem, but I can't see how that could be as this thing is doing it on it's own.
Doing it on the stimulator at 9V, doing it in the car at 11.8 to 14V. Doing it on all the boxes I got, and on the E-Bay version.
Something is amiss. Heck, I even was runnign the car for about a half an hour last night on my "Box #2" without all the filter circuit modifications.
I think it's time to give up, and push this pig to the curbside, and concentrate on other things that actually RUN. I now lament not using the complete 83 wiring harness I had for this car. What a waste of 6 months! No shiny car for me at the Convention this year. Just the same old boring dull grey one. No turbo, just the old grey N/A.
<Edited Update, 1800 hrs> Looks like I trashed the turbo doing that also. On restart, saw some smoke and thought "head gasket" but later revving revealed the telltale howl and copious ammounts of smoke revealing trashed turbine side oil seals.
Oh well, makes my decision on priorities much easier now...
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I ran an independent test of Splitfires when they were new back in the early 90's.
My results on a lean-burn stationary engine using stratified-precombustion chamber firing showed an overall decrease in fuel comsumption (Medium BTU Sour Gas) of close to 50,000 CFD on a 3,000,000 CFD facility.
The firing pressures on a cylinder to cylinder basis were startingly closer than any other plug we tried from .69 cent Champions to $400 (PER PLUG) Stitts. These were verified with kenescope readings. They were also borne out with cylinder exhaust temperature variations in some cases less then 10 degrees apart! This is phenomenal on a mechanically fuel injected engine like we were testing on.
The only problem we had was center electrode errosion, and I could not get the manufacturer to put their patented ground electrode onto a Champion Plug so we could get 500 hrs from the plugs instead of 100 hours. I was am still curious as to how their new platinum electrodes would stand up in that service.
I went through 1500 plugs on that trial. My only complaint was they didn't last more than 100 hours, and the Champions for 20% of the cost lasted 5X as long.
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Beat to death, but to summarize:
the head bolt clamping pattern on an RB engine is far better than the setup on an L28. They hold the pressure in better, without the head lifting.
The L28 does not have optimal headbolt placement, the RB is far better in that respect.
Anything else is just superficial. The L28 should easily support 800HP on the non-crossflow head, and if you could pick up an LY, probably another 100HP.
Then the heads start stretching the headbolts and lifting...
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it's not new, not by a longshot.
at best it's reconditioned, but I would doubt that.
more than likely it was someone who started spiffing up the block while thehead was off getting valve work done around 180K miles.......
I have bought things out of police impound myself, and have good luck, but I would never call one of them "new".
New PAINT maybe, but not a 'new' block!
i doubt it's 700# unless it's packaged on one heluva heavy pallet. I can lift one of those longblocks out of the back of a truck, so there is NO WAY the block sans head is anywhere NEAR 700#!
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"your tax dollars at work"!
When a SrA is in the backseat with a driver ready to separate, there is not a lot of goading required to convince him to flip the switch---it was, after all, an "Incentive Ride"!
That ride was fun, but I didn't reenlist because of it.
Now, if they would have had a recruiter on the tarmac after my AC-130 incentive ride, I would have signed a 20 year enlisment contract if they could warrant my placement on AC130 Aircrew Duty... I like to explode things!
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3.08 would work for me, but a 3.36 is acceptable, too.
I will have to check this out further.
An R230 with a 3.36 will be FAR easier to get my hands onto than the other two ratios in the R200....
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Even Porsche was bitten by the bug. In the 917 series run at LeMans, the boost controller was driver adjustable. The screw for the controller was a coarse acme-style screw, with paintmarker around the spanned sweep of the controller valve showing "7, 9, 11, Q"
Standing for 700, 900, 1100Hp, and "QUALIFYING"
Apparently the little engineers did some testing, but not terminal failure testing, and gave the driver the leeway to just "run what it would do" when needed, and if it broke, it broke...
Taking from their wisdom: If it breaks, it breaks!
Anything that has a 270 degree sweep of a DIAL to give that much horsepower is far too advanced to believ it would simply fail if you tried it for a few bursts of "Q"!
Kinda like the two safety-wired switches under the port bulkhead of an F15, one is labeled "ECM", the other "VMAX"
"VMAX" is to be used for outrunning guided missles, and is only to be used for a 30 second burst. I can personally attest that the tailfeathers of the bird will all have heat-stress cracks when used for the full 30 seconds.
But the literal "kick in the back" when you are already doing 900+ knots is really awesome. I could say it skewes your perception of "power" somewhat I think... In my case it did.
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mmmm, 2.70 R230 in the front diffy of the 4X4 Armada? I will have to check that out....
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Uh, yeah, I just realized that myself, Rufus!
When I did the first Blow-Through Triple Mikuini setup in my 73 while overseas in the USAF, I found that I had more....uh.... "Upper Body Inertia" then most, as I ended up ripping out the front seat mounts!
Not a calming feeling when you goose it one day and realize your seat is tweaking up on the left side during hard acceleration. "It's making a noise, I should probably look when I get where I'm going..."
Next intersection, young and stupid: RRRRRRIIIP! And back into the hatch I was a-lookin'! "WTF?!?!?!?!"
This is when I decided reinforcing the seat mounting areas or using alternate fastening methods were a GOOD thing!
Though some were impressed at how I savaged my seatmounts.
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oh no, it's not bastaad that's giving you bad luck with a MS'd Z-Car...
The provenance comes totally from me!
I am the Dark Hole of Electrical Gremlins. Ocassionally they crawl through a sensor into the intake and affect things mechanique!
I have chilled the Moosehead to 45 degrees thusfar in my luring attempt on JeffP. I will most likely have the ousdoor fridge dialed in before Saturday at exactly 34 degrees F for proper Beer-Bribeage whilst running the scope diagnosing my noise problem!
Beware, once my bad luck is gone, someone else will inherit it!
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Get ye to a gravel scale and confirm your weight!
Good numbers Bryan, I would be curious to see what my similar setup makes nearer sea level.
I have filled the outside refrigerator with Mooseheads, so soon I hope to have JeffP over to do some scope work on the board and power circuits to figure out how to filter out the noise I am experiencing.
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never leave your celphone on "vibrate" while working near anything electronic.
My partner did this all the time due to high-noise environments. One day, I taught him a lesson. While he was sweating like a pig, and leaning his head into a Variable Speed Drive (right over like 600VDC Caps bigger than 24oz beer cans) I called his phone number.
You have not lived until you see your partner literally levitate backwards out of a cubicle screaming, then realizing he was not getting electrocuted, but that someone was calling him on the phone.
It's even more satisfying when he looks and sees' your name on the caller I.D.
Sometimes I can't help myself!
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There are several things you can do to save the life of your thrust bearing:
#1) NEVER start the car in gear with the clutch depressed!!!!!!!
Think about it: you have FULL thrust load on a non-lubricated bearing surface, so grind grind grind it goes until oil pressure comes up. I start the car out of gear with no clutch. Yes, I disconnected the "idiot switch"---my 62 VW didn;t have such electronic gimmickery on it, and I have yet to run it through the front of the garage...
#2) When at a light, or on a hill, do NOT sit there withthe clutch depressed. My teacher was "in gear, or out, but not both" kinda guy. Basically, USE YOUR BRAKES. That is waht they are for. The less time the clutch pedal is depressed, the less wear you will have.
#3) if you have good synchros, alight flywheel, and a ginger foot, you can go up and down the gears with no clutch depression whatsoever. Failing thestones to master that technique, you can go into the next gear with some of the smae techniques, but with far less than a full clutch release. Conserve your thrust bearing by not fully loading it.
Basically, anything that keeps your foot off the clutch, it good.
As for your cracked pilot bearing, the solid disc clutch can do that from the chattering, but this goes back to the clutch being "in or out" and not even TRYING to slip it.
Good Luck. Anybody who ever owned a Corvair or VW with a snapped clutch cable will tell you living without a clutch is difficult only in first gear!
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Oh yeah, ALWAYS chain the side of the engine in ANYTHING powered by a Small-Block Chevy! A broken motor mount in a given, and it makes for an interesting ride while the fan works it's way through the hood....
I went on Mr. Toad's wild ride in a 67 Chevy Shortbox C10 pickup with a 400CID SBC due to that throttle bind propensity (withet hte broken motor mount).
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there is a group rate insurance for club activities, drives, etc....
ZCCA has an insurance that is offered through a contracted vendor that gives you a decent break on insuracne if you choose to put on an event like a track day, national convention, car show, etc....
Being in CA, insurance is almost a given for any sort of activity.
When ou get with Bonnie at the ZCCA for chartering the club (once you hit ten members) you will get more details.
I know, for instance, that the Self Directed Driving Tour offered on Friday during the National Convention in Long Beach was given the standard liability rider for a flat rate of $125 above and beyond the convention policy. That's cheap insurance should someone get stupid, then try suing any of the club officers (yeah, those who voulnteered---you are the guys liable!) So for the cost of the insurance, it makes good sence to get insurance, rather than someone loosing their house or ride because some idiot decided to live up to his latent stupidity potential.
We just went through this chartering the Emprie Z group that meets over in Ontario, and the club in Temecula. Contact those club Presidents and officers for information on what they went through. Most guys are pretty straight on how they got stuff accomplished. The ZCCA has a "how to start a club" booklet, too. Being the National Convention is in Long Beach this year, that is a good time to talk to club officers from around the country (and the WORLD) to see how they do things, and what pittfalls are out there.
Being I am an "elected" officer in the Empire Z (Sgt at Arms), and a quasi-assistant officer at Group Z (events coordinator as of July...) I can offer limited information, but some of the other guys in the clubs orginization can tell you lots more.
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RE: #4
Yes, with a Perlux Flame-Thrower HEI module, I also found out that the PCV hose from the valve cover to the inlet hose is conductive when I cranked the engine only to see a 4" spark jump to the black hose, and send off a puff of white smoke each time.
The stock HEI was sparking about as far, but not with a blue-white spark that made a CA-RAAAK! noise each time it fired.
Additional MSS things to remember:
The realy board has hot things on it---do NOT try to remove the board from the box without removing power (don't even ask!) You can repair blown solder traces from the relays with wire soldered onto the board. (goes hand in hand with remove battery lead like Moby said!)
A Z31 Turbo Coil makes 4" sparks, in conjunction with the above setup, and it fires ONCE when you power on the box. Pray no excess fuel exisits in the cylinder that spark goes to, as it WILL fire and move the car forward if it's in gear...
Do not use jackstands on dirt. (I won't even go there...I knew better, and paid the price!)
An Osilliscope is an unnatural draw for a 12 year old--who will not stay away from it no matter how many times you tell him. Hide the scope if you expect to use it later in the week. Batteries all over the table is a bad sign...
People who make their living selling "Real" fuel management systems will see you as a threat, and will become cold when you mention the name of the system---gawd forbid you actually build something that WORKS for you without paying $2000 to them for the privilege of being ignored.
Soldering upside down is best left to professionals with leather throat protectors.
The soldering iron is HOT, do not pick it up off the floor by anything other than the handle, even if you did think you unplugged it two hours ago...
Most definately do not jerk the cord and swing it up into your other hand.
Do not go for test drives without the rivets, or at least several of the little nuts holding in your tail lights.
Do not go for long test drives right away, this gives you the opportunity to realize you have left the driveway without lube in the tranny, and thought it's perfectly quiet and shifting nicely now, unless you are verrrry ginger wit hthe throttle, it may NOT be by the time you return home! (DOH!)
It happens to everyone, don't sweat it.
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well, hopefully the meetings will not be on the second thursday of the month (Group Z), the first thursday of the month (Empire Z-Inland Empire Club), second tuesday of the month (ZCC of Inland Valley - Temecula), or the last wednesday of the month (Group Z board Meetings)---If so, count me in!
Especially since Moreno Valley is just across the 215 from where I live (south of Van Buren by the Gless Farms Orange Groves)...
This inagural chapter should be far enough away from the other existing clubs to get a ZCCA Charter, too so you can get the group rate insurance.
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well, now, you guys have me curious.
I also have a fat-bumpered 260Z 2+2, and was suprised to find it had the R200 in it to begin with...
Now with the possibility of it having a 3.36, looks like I will be opening the rear up sooner than I thought.
No wonder it works the boost so hard---like my ld 240 before I swapped from 3.36 to 3.7....
I'm curious, maybe this weekend I will check it out---I need to do a fluids flush anyway.
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sandblast your friction surface on the flywheel and on the P-Plate if they have wear and the thing will start gripping,and you can restart the "breakin" procedure.
The organic portion glazes and once slippery, it compounds itself.
Be glad you didn't od your clutch like I did mine:
Took it in for a dyno pull, and ended up smoking it (yeah, 250ft-lbs capacity, riiiight!) When I went to pull it out, found the flywheel with a clutch permanently attached! Couldn't pull it off---had to chisel it free. The center of the friction material had violently ripped out of the flywheels ide of the clutch, and attached itself to the flywheel. Spent some time chiseling it all off.
Installed my CFDF later that day and haven't looked back. But I am under 300hp, and for that service it has served me well in a heavy 73 240ZT with 265's on the back!
On my setup, it appears the tires are the "slipping point" because I just can't seem to make over 10K between "cordings"...
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I wished I had an e-photo of this, but I did like the above post suggested many many years ago on my 73.
EXCEPT, no welding required:
Instead of welding a bracket, after drilling out the ballsocket on the top of the throttle pedal, cut a line in the end the width of the throttle cable (I think I clamped it in the vise, and used a sawzall to make a kerfed slot to the hole in the end of the pedal ) so the cable can slip in.
Then heat the end of the pedal and bend it 90 degrees, so it lines up with the hole for the original pushrod.
The STOCK 200SX throttle cable assembly snaps into this modification like a factory part! I used two sheetmetal screws to secure the factory boot from the 200SX onto my firewall.
You have to adjust the quadrant on the T/B to get teh throttle pedal where you want it, and then reset the throttle pedal stop on the floor so you don't break anything delicate in the setup by mashing the cable down too tightly when you exuberantly floor it!
I have run this setup on my Mikuinis since 87. It makes switching between setups easy...
No welding, and if you have a vise and a big hammer, you don't need to heat it red hot, either!
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"small tires"
Nope....
Universally, the technique to reach speeds is to run a taller tire to keep more efficient gear ratios in teh transmission and rearend.
An overdrive sucks horsepower and strains the transmission far more than necessary that larger tires running a 1:1 final ratio.
I have seen large SemiTruck rims tucked into the back of the fenderwells on MP (Modified Pickup) running diesels.
even with the mods posited for the S30 body, someone here is missing the math on the requirement for horsepower. The ammount needed to go from 170 to 190 is more by a POWER of the number, not simply a multiple! BTW, Andy's car does not have mirrors, does not have wipers, but does (due to class rules) have drip rails. There is not much more we can do aerodynamically and have it still resemble a Z. I mean, we are not going to go Stringfellow on it and stretch the front end 14 feet in front of the cowl! (Yes, there is a Z like that!).
Best case scenario (and the wide-body is no the way to go) is that an S30 MAY get dow to PERHAPS a .32 Cd, with a general frontal area of around 22 or 23 CuFt... I am sure there is an engineer here who can do the math on that. I know there was a post a ZC.C done by ZBoy that posted speeds and horsepower requirements that mirrored our actual experiences at Bonneville.
http://www.zcar.com/forums/read.php?f=4&i=145523&t=145092#reply_145523
http://www.zcar.com/forums/read.php?f=4&i=145339&t=145092
I would say MAYBE 200, and that would be a BIG goal, but unless you are running some NHRA-Class bullet in that baby, making over 1000hp, you are sadly underestimating what it takes to break into the Red Jacket Club. ESPECIALLY in an S30!
If you can do it, my hat's off to you, but lay in a big supply of $$$, because your ENGINE is going to cost that much IMHO!
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Pop-n-Wood pretty much covered it. The rad cap is a relief and reentry point to compensate for normal expansion and contraction.
It should not go under a vacuum, it should allow air back into the system, or those littel capillary tubes in your radiator's core will suck down and collapse. They are very good at containing pressure, but NOT designed to operate under vacuum. I have some experience with collapsing them when I lived back east and had 90 degree+ diurnal variations and tried to outsmart the OEM in the radiator department....but I digress.
My observations on Water Wetter: When I went to the ABQ convention one year with the 260, I consumed a gallon of coolant from "pukeover" after hot shutdown (no recovery tank). The next year on my trip to Canada's convention (roughly twice the mileage) I took two gallons of 50/50 mix w/ waterwetter in the car and refill. In 12,000 miles of hard driving I didn't use a DROP of coolant. ABSOLUTELY NO pukeover after hot shutdown.
What I noticed with the system before (same cap, same radiator, same coolant mix as the previous trip except for the addition of WW) was that after shutdown I could hear steam popping inside the head towards the rear of the cylinder head. The car would ALWAYS puke a little coolant out after shutdown hot. After addition of the Water Wetter, this did not occur---ever! The only time my rad cap has lifted was after fifteen minutes of idling after an accident where I didn't realize the fan was in the radiator and was not turning! DOH! But thanks to WW, no head warping, and drove another 6K miles back home on that trip---well, Aluma Seal helped on that one, too...
My conclusion was that the addition of water wetter was that it decreased the spot-boiling that occurred after shutdown during the heat soak period. Durinig operation, something it did was make the thing run cooler---I could see it on the gauge, and verified with my I/R thermo gun that it was running between 19 to 28 degrees cooler.
I was running 110mph, in 103* heat, with the A/C on giving me a 75* interior temperature, and NEVER exceeded 195* with a three-core radiator and a 160* thermostat. (But early cars have overheating problems... yeh, riiiight!)
Anyway, the pressure cap (radiator cap) only adds supplementary pressure to insure proper operation of the water pump. If you are blowing hoses, it's because of bad hoses---or the elimination of the bypass line and revving it during times of decreased flow while the thermostat is slightly closed.
The water pump cranks 40 to 60psi in the water jackets, allowing a much higher boiling point, and cooling the engine more efficinetly. By running a lower pressure cap, you decrease the operating pressure in the block by a similar ammount, and greatly increase the possibility of cavitation and steam impingment within the engine.
Steam formation inside the block during operation can/will errode metal! I have seen industrial engine liners that have pockmarked holes due to steam cavitation---and this is in an open system (no pressure on coolant to keep leaks down). I added a 5# relief valve to the "surge tank" for that particular engine, and the cavitation damage went away.
Personally I have 16# caps on everything. I also modify all my 240's with the 280 Puke Tank for the radiator (this all occurred before I put water wetter in). With the puke tank installed, you can fill all the way to the top of the filler neck, and then there is NEVER any air in the system. Without the puke tank coolant recovery line, you WILL be running an air space due to expansion and contraction of the coolant. I just noticed the 260 (which still doesn't have a puke tank) has a full radiator but doesn't puke at all. This lends more credence to the contention that boiling at hotspots inside the engine after shutdown causes the overflow. With the Water Wetter and 50/50 I hear no "popping" after hot shutdown, and never see overflow.
On the subject of the stregnth of the mixture...anything over 10% glycol will cause a decrease in heat transfer. But the tradeoff is FREEZE protection more than boilover. Many industrial glycol systems that require efficient transfer will dictate only pure water with inhibitors in it, and only the bare minimum of glycol to keep it all from freezing if that is required!
Water with Water WEtter is a very efficient coolant, but without the corrosion inhibitors, water pump lubricants, etc.... it becomes a very high-maintenance way to cool your car! I did run water and Drewguard for a while, but the purple dye was a real beyotch if you got it on anything , so I went back to prestone.... which BTW is the Wal-Mart Tech 2000 coolant---half the price and the SAME thing. Compare lot numbers and sequencing on the containers some time! Aaaah, efficient batch tracking working for the informed consumer!
Oh, and BTW, I have inspected JeffP's engine internal coolant passages. He has run STRAIGHT Glycol since new in his car. Everyone told him "NO, you can't do that, it hurts cooling performance!" But he doesn't have overheating problems, and I am AMAZED that after this much mileage, that there is ABSOLUTELY no corrosion WHATSOEVER in his coolant jackets, and his HEAD looks like new inside! No white powder, nuthin! Something to be said for "no water in the system" too, I suppose. Interesting the new generation of Propylene Glycol Coolants tout "no corrosion" as a benefit, and curiously they run with NO WATER in the system!
Hope this shed some light on it. I've rambled on so long, I forgot the question...
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"without going overboard on the money issue"
Well, then you have limited yourself, and the budget given will not get you close.
Cubic horsepower is what you will need, and with the aerodynamics of an S30, even with a G-Nose and full belly pan, you will need a lot more than 700 hp to go 240mph.
I crew on the LSR Z-Car John C mentioned, and if you think you can go 240mph, I welcome you to come run at Bonneville. Current C-BMS records hover in the 222mph area, with around 1100hp in a current generation Skyline R34 which arguably has a few more aerodynamic advantages than the Brick we all love.
I will make the same gentleman's bet with you: you do it in a STREETABLE vehicle, and I will pay you $1.
I hope you the best, but it's an unreasonable goal. I will posit, you will not achieve it.
Oh, and as an aside, the car, with 3.36 gears ran 13.00 the first time we rant it at Carlsbad. Started the day at 13.80, and got it to 13.08 byt he end of the day varying the launch technique. That was with the four-barrel manifold on it. I would think the car woudl do much better if it was not in street radials and running a clutch-flywheel assembly with a total weight of about 10#....
Yeahy, if the car was run with some wrinklewalls and a heavy flywheel, it think we would suprise many people driving their trucks thinking they would spank a Bonneville Record holder....even without using the 5.36 gearset to maximise 1/4 mile acceleration...
Hell, my goals are more realistic: 205mph....
You can say the rules you can ignore the rules, but my experience says you can not ignore the rules and laws of physics...
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I tried simultaneous 1, alternating two, simultaneous two, and really didn't notice much difference between all three settings other than the pulsewidth changed a bit. With 2 Alternating and 1 simultaneous it seemed to run the best, so I went with 1 simultaneous to keep injector clicking noise down (odd reason, eh?) For the life of me I can't remember the pulsewidth it shows, but it's around the 730 position on the megatune dial---maybe 2.3ms? My req fuel was around 11.8 initially I believe.
I am using the stock turbo injectors, fpr, etc. I have over five hours of smooth idle time now.
I actually moved the car fifty feet forward and back last night to check my clutch install! Woo Hoo! Still have the interference problems, but it's not affecting me at idle that much.
My idle vacuum is around 22"Hg at 800rpm, and snap-throttle spike is upwards of 29"! Warmed up, of course. My compression (though not checked) seems good as the pulses out the exhaust are even and strong. You may want to check your compression and make sure your cylinders are all up to snuff before going to much further. I had an idle air leak around my idle bypass screw, plugged it and vacuum went from 20 to 22" and idle dropped from 950 to 800 even. Little leaks all over make a difference. I had my 1/4" sensing line off altogether and it ran...rich as heck, but it ran! Remember that lower vacuum means it will go rich.
I agree with the TPS Cal comment, it made a lot of a difference on my engine (got it to run!).
The Oh-Silly-Scope is on my dining room table now (Beckman 1509---thanks JeffP!) now to figure out how to set it all up and go after the spikes!
Good Luck Moby.
280zxt compression ratio??
in Turbo / Supercharger
Posted
FSM says 7.4:1
7.1 and 7.8 are just plain wrong.
7.3 is close enough to say "what does it matter?"