Gollum

What engine do you have that you're only getting 10mpg?

Umm, so my point still stands. When you're stranded in the desert and triple A tows you to the nearest town you're still out of luck. It is what it is, and I wasn't misleading in my posts, and I understand perfectly well that you can order parts from importers.

Yea, a 90 degree V DOHC engine has quite a bit of weight up top. Even the SOHC VG is considerably lighter, though I have yet to see definitive weights as posted in that linked thread. The weight I've seen floating around is 392, which might be accurate, but with what bolted onto it? It's a mystery. At any rate you start to get the picture that it's much lighter than it's dual cam brethren, and when you see the two in person you notice the huge size difference.

As per this thread - http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=125246 The VG30DETT minus turbos, water pump, timing belt, timing belt covers, and one ignition coil weighs 442 lbs. Most of the information on the net shows that the all aluminum LS1 comes in between 400-425 in most configurations. I have yet to see any documented case of it being heavier or lighter than that range. The LS6 weight in that thread above has a 4L60E transmission and weighs 609 lbs, and that transmission's aprox wet weight is around 176lbs.

Umm, see above post I just wrote.... The SR20DET wasn't ever a USDM motor, thus you can't find parts for it at just any ol' store. You have to find JDM part importers.

Hmm, I wonder why high HP 1UZ and Vh's are hard to find evidence of. It seems like some of the most extreme builds I've found are pushing right around 100hp per liter (a little over in some cases) where as it seems that it's quite common to find 4 cylinder builds exceeding 120hp per liter. I wonder if it's just the sheer number of people building the engines by comparison. From what I'd seen though it seems the 1UZ needs attention to port design if you want it to flow well for high RPM application, and the narrow valve angle lends itself well to do so. I guess you were right about what I've assumed, and it's only based on what I've been able to find. I'll take my time to dig a bit deeper.

I was thinking I should clear something up, in case I left a bad air in here since my last post. I still love the flat plane crank idea for the LS1, and it's honestly very exciting to think about. I just think that if you want a DOHC setup that revs to the moon then making a custom block might be a better option for some than working with an existing DOHC V8 option, since there aren't that many and none seem to flow that impressively well in stock form. A 4 cylinder head can rev to 9k stock in many cases, and flow very well out of the box. There's guys putting well over 200hp to the wheels with little more than cams, intake, and exhaust on the H22 motors, and they're making their power at 8500 stock, let alone modified. But all that being said, there isn't a 4 cylinder I can find with a bore size I like. With a flat plane crank V8 I'd prefer to go with as large a bore size as I could find and realistically run, since you're power is comming from valve area and port design. You won't have a huge stroke creating a huge vacuum filling the chamber. You'll have to rely on higher and higher revs the shorter the stroke gets. If stroke can be kept above 2.7" you can easily shoot for a power band in the realm of common, affordable valvetrain parts and develop peak power around 7,000 with the right cam profile. With the stroke around there you can still achieve a good 8.5 comp ratio, and if you run more of a 2.9-3" stroke you can acheive 9-9.5 comp ratio and that will move the power range down a bit. Either way, the H22 has 3.57" stroke and revs well over 8k stock. This should indicate that even with the LS1 you can shoot for very high piston speeds, as long as care is taken to the piston selection, correct? It seems to me that it would be hard to design a stroke length that would be condusive to NA AND boost. If you run too low of a stroke compression will be hard to acheive, making boost ideal. But if you run a long stroke will it be all that simple to find a happy point that will deal with both? Personally, I'm not as worried as some about the vibrations. I'd say go for around a 3" stroke (which is still short compared to most engines out there) with peak power around the 7000-7500 mark with a 8500 redline. That should give you all the "ferarri sound" you need, and still easily get 400 NA HP. With a wild cam and overall more racey setup I think 600hp wouldn't be impossible (at the crank). I think if you go under a 2.5" stroke then the RPM's required for good volumetric efficiency will be expensively high, and possibly uneeded. Does this sound correct braap, or have I been mislead in my researching? Oh, and I think I myself would prefer the LS1 over any DOHC V8 simply due to weight, size, simplicity, and part options. The LS1 has a nice big bore to work with, amazing heads, and comes in just over 400 pounds stock for the all aluminum variety.

I never said it was a bad motor. I never said there wasn't support like you're probably thinking about it. I'm talking about your car happens to melt a sensor due to poor intake piping location, so you're stranded on the side of the road, and the local napa doesn't have the part you need. USDM motors almost always make more sense in a car that's going to see regular use and abuse. This is one of the main reasons people use chevy engines in many of their own cars, and why even some ford guys convert over to chevy parts where they can. There's nothing like "support" at every store you walk in no matter what state you're in. And in that regard the CA and the KA both beat the SR imo.

I don't mean to put you off, but I think unless you're a machinist you're better off going with 180 degree headers. But at the same time I REALLY want as many people as possible to have 180degree cranks made because I think there really is a market for them, if only companies like scat would see and then market it correctly. It's kinda like the L series head made from KA24DE heads that 1 fast z made, to think of someone who's not a machinist doing it would be insanity on some level. That doesn't stop people like me from wishing I had it, or want to do it.

Ditto... I drove around for months with duct tape in several areas that I didn't even put there. When I get my car back on the road again it won't have a dash really. My shocks are on the verge of being completely blown, and my tires couldn't make a go-kart handle. I used to have a completely rust covered hood with a gaping hole in it. In many ways it was amazing. In many ways people thought I was crazy. In many ways my girlfriend wanted to shoot me.

You know, I've been thinking about this topic a lot lately again, and I think the guy who designed the Hartley V8 had the right thinking about this. Designing your own block AND crankshaft is infinitely more complicated than just building a crankshaft, but maybe not. Designing a crankshaft still means taking into consideration every design aspect of the engine. Oiling, cooling, port flow, piston design, etc. What I'm getting at, is that in my mind it might be more beneficial in many ways to design a custom V8 block that uses production 4 cylinder heads. I've been looking into the honda H series heads and they have some pretty impressive flow numbers, a 3.43" bore, rev to 7800 stock with a 3.57" stroke, and are fairly inexpensive to build. The big upside I see is that you don't have the cam timing changed at all, and can run virtually over the counter performance parts based off of the 4 cylinder brethren. The custom crankshaft would now need to include timing gears on both sides of the engine, and most likely the cylinders would have to be offset like in the Hartley engine in order to align the heads to the crankshaft timing gears. Another HUGE upside I see to this setup is that it can be a fairly compact DOHC V8. The 1UZ and VH45 are great engines with great cylinder heads, but they're large engines. Because stroke decrease is most likely going to cut the stroke down to 2"-2.75" or so, then the deck height can be appropriate to the rod length required for ideal stroke/rod ratio. The H22 and other honda engines have proven to flow very well and already achieve very good volumetric efficiency, which means even with a completely stock head with custom pistons to match the head and keep compression high you can expect to see good HP numbers. The H22 makes over 200hp stock. Cams, intake, and exhaust with tuning have shown to make huge power increases. By making a 3.5 liter V8 with the same head 400hp should be easily expected. With cams and tuning 500 should be easy to reach. If I wanted a flat plane V8 with a DOHC setup, I think this would be the way to go. I'm sure it would be much more expensive, though if you're doing 100% of the machine work yourself to begin with, I think the costs of material and time would be worth the gain.

Hmm... that makes me feel bad about leaving that T3/T4 at the junkyard now... thanks.

This might be a smidge off topic, but wasn't the turbo on the merkur a T3/T4 hybrid? I thought for sure the last one I saw at the Jyard was a hybrid.

Ok, sorry guys. No harm no foul? I didn't mean to say he SHOULDN'T use it, more like draw out WHY he wants to. I agree though, hybridz is about doing whatever you want and if he wants a 2JZ more power to him.

To origonal poster: You say you know a thing or two about torque, but I beg to differ. Take a ride in a 400+ Wheel HP supercharged 5.0 then come and talk. That car will rev it's nuts off and beg for more. It's scary how fast you get to 7k on one of those engines, which isn't necessary good for it. I know what you mean though about high rev engines being fun, but for me the fun factor with RPM is more about rev SPEED, not just the number on the tach. I want my engine to TELL me how hard I'm pushing it and to feel the RPM change. I also want it to let me know how silly it finds the early gears. The stock 250ish HP 93' cobra could take off in 3rd from a light and you'd sit there and wonder "why haven't I shifted yet" and then realize that you're in 3rd... I did that a couple of times. Woops. Torque is insanely fun. High RPMs are insanely fun. Finding the balance of both in your engine is key to me. I personally don't want a big block that makes peak power at 5000, but I also don't want an engine that revs to 10,000 ans sacrifices the "scary fast" feeling. The right high rev engine combo can work though, but it's application specific. I'm sure in a F1 their "low torque" feels like a truck load due to the low weight and gearing. In a honda 150 pounds of torque feels like a truck load. In a mustang that feels like nothing. You need at least 350 pounds of torque imo to get a mustang to start feeling sporty. In a Z you can weigh anywhere from 2200-2800 depending on a lot. That's quite a platform which might require vastly different power and torque requirements for what you're looking for. . . . . . All that said. I find the CA18DET to be a neat motor and would love to tinker with one. If you go that route though look into what it will take to be making at least 300 pounds of torque, as that's what I think these cars deserve to have a bit of fun in. The SR is way over rated by a lot of people, and the KA is really just for the people that want moving power in a turbo 4 cylinder. The KA is a great platform, but they really have their nitch for just slapping on a turbo can beating the hell out of them. I'd love to see more people build them for high RPM though because from what I've seen they're not bad for how high displacement they are.

I guess that statement did come off a bit assish. Sorry for that. My point is that unless you're Mr.Moneybags then there are tons of engines to better suit your needs. The 2JZ in my eyes is a pointless swap if you're staying under the 400hp mark, and doesn't REALLY make sense compared to a lot of the options from the 400-800hp ballpark. Things that keep the 2JZ from being a serious contender for MOST PEOPLE: 1. Price - It's an insanely expensive engine to build. 2. Size/Weight - It's an iron block DOHC inline 6. They're huge and heavy. 3. Complexity of a modern engine - It's no different than most EFI engines, but a carb'ed engine swap is infinately easier to wire up. The price and weight are a HUGE DEAL! The reason why so many people have done the SBC conversion in Z cars is because they're dirt cheap, and with aluminum heads and intake they're not really all that heavy, and put the weight far back and low down. The reason I press this issue, is because to me the author of this thread probably doesn't know that much about actually working on a car, why else would he simply ask such a simple question like "what do i need" without showing signs that he's searched. If this is true then he's probably never ridden in a 300hp/2200 pound vehicle before and doesn't realize how deathly fast that is for a street car. And if that was the HP goal here's the engines I'd recommend before recommending a 2JZ: 327 Chevy 350 Chevy 383 Chevy 5.0 Ford 351W Ford 289 Ford 302 Ford LS1 LS2 L28ET KA24ET KA24DET SR20DET VG30ET VG30DET VQ35DE Ford Lima Turbo 4 1UZFE 2UZFE 3UZFE VH45DE This is just scratching the surface really. And you might say "but nobody has done some of those swaps" well he's in a S130 car, in which the 2JZ is uncharted territory as well. My statement that "There are 30+ engines that are better in almost every way" was more about what his goals probably are. If he wants to build a 9 second drag car then the 2JZ starts looking a lot better than most of those engines I just listed. But if he want's a street car that doesn't take too much to make handle well, and will blow the doors off almost any car he pulls up against then I'd say the 2JZ is completely overkill.

I actually just watch it online. The BBC America airings are edited and leave out tons of stuff, which frustrates me.

Yea i caught that episode. We're so diesel deprived over here in the states.

This swap hasn't been done much, and I havn't seen ANY good documentation on it. If you're not doing it yourself, and having a shop do it, expect to pay at least 3k apart from just the cost of the engine. If you're talking about the turbo varient, expect to put at least 8k into the total swap if you want it done well. If you're going to do it yourself and you have a welder and know how to fabricate, I can imagine getting the swap costs down to about 1k apart from the engine/trans cost. Parts you're likely going to need: Engine Transmission Driveshaft (custom, or modified) ECU Wiring Harness All sensors Engine Mounts Tranny Mount Radiator Guages Many other misc items that come up like figuring out how you're going to convert to a cable throttle setup (stock is a mechanical arm). Why are you wanting to do this swap? I can think of at least 30 other engines that are better in almost every way besides raw power, which is way over hyped in the 2JZ realm.

They can be had pretty cheap actually, around $300 if you look hard enough. They are a relatively new engine though so finding engines won't be as easy as some other engines. I don't see anything wrong with them. If I was dead set on a turbo 4 cylinder they'd be an engine demanding me to compare it to the KA.

I seriously doubt the CA really weighs 282 in full longblock trim. Most 4 cylinders regardless of iron block vs aluminum block, SOHC vs DOHC setup fall between 325 and 400 pounds. The VG30E has been verified by a couple people to weigh in under 400 pounds in running trim, and is an insanely compact engine, and it has a sturdy iron block with internals that can take 300+ boosted HP without complaining with stock internals. They're dime o' dozen too. That was my initial point. The SR doesn't make much sense to me imo. In fact, pretty much all imported engines don't make much sense to me other than wow factor (which I can respect). If you're going for practicality go with something you can find parts for left and right and is easy to work on. The CA is extremely rare in the US compared to a multitude of engines, and the US never got any good SR engines. They're both out of the game for engine swaps for me personally. If I really wanted a 4 cylinder I'd go with a toyota engine, or the KA24DE with a budget turbo conversion. Those things have shown to be quite the workhorse. Oh, and for the record, these are some of the only engine weights I'd stake money on: http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=125246 There's been many discussions on this site on weight methods and how nobody online seems to care to mention what was ON THE ENGINE when they give you the weight..... Completely useless.

If you're that concerned with weight, I'd go with a VG30E or VG30ET swap. Those are tiny little engines that even with iron blocks weigh in under 400 pounds (less than many 4 cylinders). Paul has the weight of the engine alone in the definitive weight thread. The VG30E can make about 200 NA Flywheel HP on a budget, and the turbo version can make well over 300 on with very few mods.

1) I have a 280ZX that was given to me from someone I didn't even know. So it gets me around when I need it to. Though it needs a little attention of it's own. 2) I don't have a full time job. I'm in school right now though, but I find time to work on it during the weekends. Pretty soon the weather is going to be amazing california standard again so I need to get er' back on the road because once the weather gets good somehow my weekend schedule doesn't let up for a good 6 months or so.

I think there's a certain nature of an engine that a flat plane crank adds. Even that first pantera has a distinct rough nature to it, paired with a high pitched exhaust. Here's a NONE 90 DEGREE V8 with a flat plane crank with a relatively long exhaust system reving to 10,500 on the dyno. http://www.h1v8.com/f/dyno_mpeg_compressed.mpg And most of the roughness in that can be contributed to the fact it's a 75 degree engine instead of a 90 degree. These exhaust pulses should be even more "off" than a poorly done 180 degree header but it actually sounds BETTER to my ears, and I think this has to do with the ENGINE noise as much as the exhaust. I'm not so sure that even the "perfect" 180 degree header design will get 100% of the same sound effect of a flat plane crank. (video is of the H1V8, courtesy of their website)

The MS overview sticky on this very site covers a brief stint on installing EDIS. The main benefit is that there's no more cap and rotor to wear out, throw things off, etc. EDIS is much more stable and is in many ways friendlier with aftermarket EFI systems because it doesn't have any natural advance. There's a trigger wheel you put on your crank. A sensor follows the teeth and sends the signal to the EDIS module. The Megasquirt takes a signal from the module and then tells the coils when to fire.