SeanD Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Please don't drown this thread with HP willy-waggling. Fantastic post - please keep us all informed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMC raceengines Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 The rear oil reterns have to be welded up as they dont line up .as its drysumped i have used a stage off the pump to remove oil from the rear of the head. By removing the rear plug ,like most RB engines extra oil retern kits. The water pump was the more of a chalange , well not the pump the water in to the block as the Lsearies pump wont work as there is no frunt cover ,so i have removed the welsh plugs from left hand side of the motor ,and made a cooling chanel that feeds the hole side of the block ,and used a electric water pump to feed it .i will take some pics of it to day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
didier Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The rear oil reterns have to be welded up as they dont line up .as its drysumped i have used a stage off the pump to remove oil from the rear of the head. By removing the rear plug ,like most RB engines extra oil retern kits. The water pump was the more of a chalange , well not the pump the water in to the block as the Lsearies pump wont work as there is no frunt cover ,so i have removed the welsh plugs from left hand side of the motor ,and made a cooling chanel that feeds the hole side of the block ,and used a electric water pump to feed it .i will take some pics of it to day. Good job ! i think you have 3 scavenge hoses ? 2 for the sump and 1 for the head ? what is your pump ? Moroso, paterson, weaver ? other? lobes or gears ? and i'm sure your EWP is a Davis Craig ( australia !) 80 or 115 l/mn ? Sorry for my bad english €€€€ ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctc Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Forgive my ignorance of the RB engine, but i know the L series engine has head cooling issues. There has been discussion here about reversing the cooling flow by directing coolant into the head first then it the block and finally back to the radiator. Do you know of any similar cooling issues with the RB head? Was your choice to flow coolant into the block first based on being the most practical solution or was there another reason for this choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) When you pump 6X Stock Horsepower through most any production car engine, you 'have issues'... SBC's have crossover ports that have to be plumbed at a given HP range as well. Push anything enough, and the original design intent will be exceeded and require modification. I don't know I'd classify that as 'having issues'... nor would I classify it as a defect of any sort. The Nissan Heads specifically designed for high specific output application for the L-Series don't need anything done to them at serious HP multipliers. We mostly choose to work on heads that are readily available and misapplied to our application. Not everyone can dig up an LY or FIA Cylinder head, or buck up the 35,000 Euros to have one replicated! Edited January 24, 2012 by Tony D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMC raceengines Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 I realy have just made the water system like the RB for ease, and it was the only thing i could do realy ,the cold water will go in to the block and out thru the top hose like the RB .And it will have 3 bleed hoses out of the inlet manifold ,are they needed mmm dont know yet , As for the oil pump i have a ausy pump ,a friend makes them for me its a 4 stage unit . I will have 2 in the sump 1 in the head and i for vac also in the sump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctc Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Tony, agreed that the horse power levels we are talking about (600+) are beyond the the original design intent. That is why we are talking about needing modification. I amend my statement to "I understand the L series cylinder head requires cooling modifications when pushed beyond 6X stock horsepower levels" I understand the FIA head at least and I assume the LY head as well innately have a cooling design similar to what has been discussed on this site and used sucessfuly by members here on modified production head castings. As you say, the LY and FIA heads are virtually unobtainium for most of us. What I was getting at was insight into how the RB head works or if there are any know required modification, like the L series, when pushing over 600hp on an RB. I have my hands full learning about the L series (what I have in my car) and quite honestly don't have the time to study all the idiosyncrasies of another series of engines. I know that people have put some really big power numbers though the RB's, but did not know how much modification was required on those engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djz Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Any sort of cooling system modifications or modifications in general? Quite a few people install swirl pots, from what I understand they are mainly to remove bubbles from the cooling system. This is a picture of the engine bay of one of the old Bathurst GTRs which is a pretty simple setup as it still runs the ITBs. I have read these engines started off at around 477kW before having the boost restricted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMC raceengines Posted January 24, 2012 Author Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) heheh i built the car .... well not just me i worked there for 5 years, and the head is of that car Edited January 24, 2012 by PMC raceengines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanD Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 heheh i built the car .... well not just me i worked there for 5 years, and the head is of that car Serious kudos !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Hey, was that Red Car at Muscle Car Masters at Eastern Creek two years ago? I think I have photos of that thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josh817 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Was reading some older posts and $6900 AUS is quite a deal for all that stuff... Thing I'm focusing on more though is Honda rods. Year/make/model, journal size specs; in the rare chance that Honda rods fit nicely on stock journal sizes. I'd imagine you just cut the journals to whatever you want in the process of stroking. Ehhhh nevermind. Some posts on AusZCar inferring you just cut the journals to whatever you want. Jealous of the prices though. Edited January 25, 2012 by josh817 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowlerMonkey Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 WTF do bonneville speeds and drag have to do with the original post? I haven't seen any speed claims from the original poster. Tony will throw his weight around and run off a legit asset to this community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Well Howler Monkey, I think you're being a bit obtuse: Speed takes Horsepower.... Please go back and read what I posted regarding poo-poohing of Rebello's claim of 400HP and the Drag/HP requirement to go 170mph+ at Bonneville. It directly contradicted the claim that the "Rebello 400" engine build "only in a pinch" made 290-330 HP. At the minimum the Drag/Speed/HP requirement was closer to 375, and was very near the 365 claimed the engine was to have produced. If you have a problem with me, take it to PM from this point forward--I believe my points were well laid out and anybody who actually READ them and didn't come in with a predisposed bias towards me. The Bonneville speeds were proffered as direct measurement methodology for ACTUAL horsepower produced, and not DYNO horsepower. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19762802+2 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I for one enjoyed this thread anytime I can learn anything and have datsuns involved is a win win for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supra510 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Please don't drown this thread with HP willy-waggling. Agreed. I have absolutely no dog in this fight, but a guy comes on here with a cool idea, is executing it, and apparently has a good reputation as an engine builder and next thing you know it's a battle royale because he made a comment on Rebello's claimed hp? If the Bonneville engine powered that car with enough speed to confirm their hp claims then great, but I don't think it's going too far, even a bit far, to say that Rebello's dyno is a bit on the high side. Great builders, well respected in most circles, but their hp claims are not always accurate. I remember back in the day they advertised 230 hp (crank) out of a L series 2.3 liter. A tuned, EFI example put down 153 at the wheels, which even with a 20% correction is what, 185ish? A bit off 230.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) If someone wants to refute a thread, do so on something OTHER than a Dyno which is USELESS from one rig to the next. As set forth in the argument: HP/Drag is a scary close taskmaster. ANYBODY coming on a offhand making disparaging remarks with little proof based on ONE engine put on ONE dyno deserves a little reality check for making the comments. ALL I originally said was "FYI Rebello was making 400HP Engines" and basically "I HOPE someone could make 400 with 3.5 liters and that kind of valve flow area." Persistence on calculated flow numbers as a reason something "couldn't possibly be done" is also another fallacy when indeed, the car made the speed---how is that explained? I don't think the OP or I share ANY animosity whatsoever, I think we came to a mutual agreement on terms. What kills me is people who come whining and take offense where none was given, nor taken. I guess you all can be offended for the OP who doesn't seem offended at all, and reasonably discussed the disparity being brought up. You want to make claims about someone else's build you do so at your own peril. Supra510, you show me an exact ENGINEERING FORMULA recognized by SAE, JIS, TUV, or any other sanctioned engineering body to calculate WHEEL HORSEPOWER from CRANKSHAFT HORSEPOWER. I can show you where CRANKSHAFT HORSEPOWER STANDARDS exist from SAE. IF the dyno was calibrated and test conducted to SAE standards (as stated earlier) then conversion to ANY OTHER ENGINEERING EQUIVALENT is simple math. Which was another point made (you obviously missed it.) Which brings us full circle to "Dyno Numbers are useless" so making offhand comments based on them on someone else's build is equally as useless and shouldn't be done. Sean came in Dont drown in HP wiggly waggling posting nothing technical, just mommy's admonition. And well after the point was discussed and a resolution was come to. If you guys just want someone to come on and say "I'm going to make this, and it's going to have XXXXHP and blah blah blah" then fine, you get what you get. For my money, I'd like to see results, and without disparagement of another builder. Maybe you guys like negative marketing, or badmouthing someone who isn't around to defend the claims... But I don't. I'll leave it up to the moderators to cull anything they want out of this thread and 'clean it up'...including fawning praise with nothing technical to ask or add... If anybody causes anybody to leave, it's going to be the ersatz grammar police who went damn well personal with their attacks on the guy. But I'm the bad guy for standing up for no badmouthing other builders based on one build, and 'if it's impossible explain how the example exists'? Either we got more non-engineers here who don't understand 'proof and logic' or I don't know what... just because someone asks questions to clarify a statement based on an empirical standard that is traceable and verifiable mathematically does not mean it's a 'battle royale'! Edited January 25, 2012 by Tony D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMC raceengines Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) OK boys it all good i said sorry about the hp chat lets move on . i dont mind Tony having his say ,we will move on and make Datos go faster ,thats what we all wont . PS the red 1 car still races in that class Tony and they still can not catch it .. Edited January 25, 2012 by PMC raceengines 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Agreed Mate! I don't know what all this after-the-fact winge-festing is all about. Anyway, I think we both were straight with the issues on the last page. Yeah, that was at Eastern Creek wasn't it. Along with Godzilla. Several R32 GTRs were there that year. Great fun to watch them lap the V8's! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMC raceengines Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Agreed Mate! I don't know what all this after-the-fact winge-festing is all about. Anyway, I think we both were straight with the issues on the last page. Yeah, that was at Eastern Creek wasn't it. Along with Godzilla. Several R32 GTRs were there that year. Great fun to watch them lap the V8's! It was a mad car back when it was racing , it was the best GTR in the world at the time .. and the most expencive,lol .Gibson motorsport had the best of everything at that time, that car cost 1.3m to build ,from the chat around the lunch table the RB26 cost 120k per engine , Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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