azZdriver Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) Any tips on getting the rear wheel bearing lock nut off? I am using the FSM, and what they call a Rear Axle stand, so the axle is not moving. Just can't get the lock nut to loosen, even using a piece of 2 foot pipe over the socket wrench. By chance is one of the wheels reverse threaded? I'm working on the rear passenger side. Also, the car is a non-turbo, in case the rear ends are different. Edited February 4, 2012 by azZdriver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feifongwong3 Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Last time I was replacing bearings I think I rented a pair of king size titanium alloys to get that retaining nut loose. I suggest you do the same. Not really a trick to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azZdriver Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 Last time I was replacing bearings I think I rented a pair of king size titanium alloys to get that retaining nut loose. I suggest you do the same. Not really a trick to it. Is that a bigger wrench? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluDestiny Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 It took a big ass air gun to get it off. take the trailing arm off and bring it to a shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azZdriver Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 It took a big ass air gun to get it off. take the trailing arm off and bring it to a shop. I'm hoping to not have to have a shop work on it, it is my only way of transportation. Didn't think it'd be so hard to get it off. Guess if Sunday comes and it's not fixed I'll have no choice though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feifongwong3 Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Big wrench strong arms and a prayer that your hand doesn't hit the ground when it finally gets loose man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azZdriver Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 Lol, alright thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azZdriver Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 I borrowed an air impact wrench, SOB still doesn't budge. lol Looked so easy when reading over the manual. Gonna dump some Marvel Mystery Oil on it and try to find 5 or six foot piece of pipe for leverage, but yeah it's most likely going to the shop Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Use a torch. There may be Loctite there.. Plus the heat will expand the nut. You're replacing the seals and bearings anyway, it won't hurt anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azZdriver Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) Ok I'll try heating it. I'm replacing the grease seal and inner and outer wheel bearings. Anything else that should be replaced or that may be damaged by heating? Thanks for the help guys. Edited February 4, 2012 by azZdriver Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djz Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Just remember that once you get it off you are going to have to do it back up again, you'll need a bigish torque wrench to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 The nut is an expendable item, on the early cars cut the flats of the crush section of the locknut. On the later cars they use s grade-c locknut and if you can positively keep the lugs from rotating, a long wrench (4'!) that DOES NOT SPRING will snap it free. A shorter, no flexing breaker bar with a 3# machinists sledge will break it free as well. Use of PB Blaster is very helpful. Replace the nuts, they are still available! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebekahsZ Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) Up early with a migraine and I'm feeling your pain. Don't try this in the rain, on a Sunday night before a final exam. There is some really good stuff on this subject on these forums, so do a lot of searching, and google too. Try terms like "280z axle stub removal, etc" and you might find more info. The biggest improvement between my last job doing this and the first was using a dremel tool with a fiberglass cut of wheel to "unstake" the flattened areas of the big nut, if you haven't done that already. Make sure your car is jacked up really high and well supported so you don't drop it on your head. If you have it high enough, you need to get as long a breaker bar as possible with a long piece of pipe (cheater bar). I've never gotten my air impact wrench strong enough to break this nut free. Get somebody to push the brake pedal for you so the wheel won't turn and don't roll car off ramps onto your head. Both sides are normal threads "leftie loosie, rightie tightie." Then gather up all your really good cuss words and you will eventually cuss it loose. Wright down the order of parts removal as you pull apart, there are lots of posts from guys (like me) who can't remember the reassembly order of the bearings, spacers, seals and washers. Re-use your same spacer tubes that go with your hub. There is some debate on whether the brass/bronze washers are really necessary, but I'd reuse them if your car has them (some do, some don't). When you get your axle stubs out, take them to a machine shop and pay like $10 to have the old bearings removed and new ones packed and pressed on - worth much more than you will pay in pain trying to do this at home with a hammer (those bearings are expensive). On a side note, next time I do this job, I'm going to skip replacing my bearings (about $100). I've always replaced them for fear of damaging them during assembly/disassembly, but I've never hurt one-they are tough. Clean up the threads you've damaged with a triangular file before reassembly so you won't cuss so much when you are back there on your back in the rain again. Use new nuts ($10-ish-I got mine and my bearings and seals from Motorsport Auto or Long Motor Company, both of which have really quick delivery)-you don't need to replace the washers that go under the nuts, so that saves you like $3 for a stupid washer. Order this year's transmission plastic shifter bushing while you are paying shipping. I borrowed a really big torque wrench from an old machinist in my neighborhood to retorque on reassembly, although I have never been able to get to 220 foot pounds-I usually run out of steam between 180 and 200 foot pounds and have never had a problem. There is only one other job on a Z-car that is more difficult than this, and that is removing and replacing rear spindle pins. For both of these jobs you really want someone at home to call 911 in case they hear a crash, then all the cussing goes silent, only to come to the garage and see your car off the jackstands with your little legs sticking out. Call me if you need support at 256-366-4685 central time and I'll cuss along with you, seriously. Sorry so manic, my migraine feels better knowing that you are dealing with such a crappy, miserable job. As someone posted above, I have had to remove the whole side of the suspension before, mount it in a vice and use a breaker bar with all my body weight plus a sledge. At least that way you are off your back. Edited February 4, 2012 by RebekahsZ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meph Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) One thing I've used to get stubborn bolts in the past is a hydraulic jack pushing up on a long wrench/rachet/cheater bar. Just be sure the socket has a good hold on the bolt and stay away from the danger zones if the wrench were to slip off the foot of the jack. Good luck Edited February 4, 2012 by Meph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h4nsm0l3m4n Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) I've done this job several times and have never had any significant difficulty I just took off the entire strut assembly and bolted a giant section of square 2x1 steel tubing to the lugs. Then I'd put the assembly down on the floor and have a friend hold it steady while I reefed on the lock nut with a breaker bar and a huge extension. The 2x1 square tube would keep the stub axle from rotating. You can do this on the car too, but I found it easier to take it out since you have more room to work with the breaker bar. I never had a problem with the nut damaging the threads, even if I didnt cut off the peened section. I'd run a die down the threads just for peace of mind. Edited February 4, 2012 by h4nsm0l3m4n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 The reaction bar to lock the lugs is a critical part---2X1 steel tubing would probably be the smallest. I had a piece of 2X4X0.250" wall box tubing from a trailer that I drilled holes for two lugs , and the opposite wall to larger holes for the socket to lock the lug nuts onto it. The biggest problem I've seen is 'spring'---either the bar people use to lock the axle from rotating, or the breaker bar/breaker bar extension has excessive deflection. This saps the effort required to break face-friction and any galvanic action that may have bonded the respective components together. It is not uncommon that there is cold welding on the threads, which can lock them together. The removing of the flats from the early cars is almost mandatory if you want to get the nuts off without buggering the threads terminally. As stated the later cars have Grade-C Locknuts and there really isn't anything you can do other than untorque them with the aid of maybe melted beeswax wicked into the threads or some PB Blaster. The longer the cheater you use to either hold the axle, or put pressure on the breaker bar, the stiffer it has to be or the deflection will sap the energy that should be going into breaking the face friction. Frankly, with a solidly locked axle I've removed these nuts using a 6" STOUT 1/2" drive breaker bar and a 3# machinist's sledge with a few smart whacks. Once it's broken free, it comes right off. As for tightening to 200+, again clearance comes into play again. Usually pushing down will help as you can get your body weight onto it. a 4X torque multiplier makes it child's play...but scant few have a $1600 tool laying around just for their axle nuts! I took my 280Z strut out to do it, and locking the axle was harder than leaving it in the car from my setup. Were I to do it again, I'd use something like an old Rotor Hat with a bar welded onto it clamped in a vice to lock the thing. But that almost requires a 3/4" Impact Wrench to shock it free. Unless you have a HEAVY bench, or have it bolted to the floor! Flipping the bench over is not unheard of.... VW Gland Nuts on Flywheels have poorman's torque multipliers that use the flywheel teeth and an old starter pinion to turn the bolt to final torque. A variant they have that bolts on the lugs to remove the axle end nut. It would be great to have this for our application, unfortunately the nut is on the wrong end of the shaft! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azZdriver Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 Thanks for all the tips guys. Lots of PB Blaster and persistence finally got it off. The bar holding it still while cranking was absorbing a lot of the torque being applied, bent it up pretty good! So I thought that was the hardest part. Turns out the outer wheel bearing was in such bad shape that it came a part upon removal. Unfortunately that means the outer part of the bearing is being quite a pain to get out. Finally gave up yesterday, today it's getting cut out. Sure glad I started this job Friday. Thanks again guys. I appreciate you all taking the time to help me out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Outer race should easily be removed via punch, and if not that using a dremel or die-grinder to cut the race to a thin section and then heating it (even with a propane torch, if you get it thin enough)---that will let the thin section turn red hot and easily buckle when hit from behind with a punch (differential/inboard side out.) In some instances using an Oxy-Acetylene you can set the flame just a little bit O2 rich (oxidising) and when that section of the bearing is heated it will literally 'burn away' to nothing. Leaving the bearing halves to fall out if you do it 180 degrees apart... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellowoctupus Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 So...I got the axle nut off no problem, made a puller to get the stub out, and have the outer bearing out. What's the trick to getting that inner bearing out?? I've been beating the daylights out of that silly thing and have gotten to move maybe 3/16"! I'm doing wheel bearings all around, as the fronts never stay in adjustment (races shot) and the rears have play too. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluDestiny Posted April 29, 2012 Share Posted April 29, 2012 A bigger slegde and more beating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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