suparman Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 Lol.. you are a treasure trove of awesome pictures, Maybe I can build it for the Cog rally in Steamboat springs CO next fall.... Just have to find a rule book... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suparman Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 Probably wont beat Pastrana or Block but it would be fun.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) Pretty freakin' cool pictures! it's awesome to see a Z fly! I did a lot of Jeep 4x4'ing, so I'm biased toward jeeps, but this could work. If I was going to build a Z rally car, (I don't know the rules regarding stock engines etc but...) I would really think about putting in the KA24 and 4x4 tranny from the 4x4D21 /Frontier. I don't know how stout the tranny is, but my brother's is a 91' and it's done well offroad for years. I don't know how hard converting the front suspension to 4x4 would be, or if there'd be issues to work out with the steering rack. For that matter, Why stick with Nissan? The GM 3.7L/Auto from the Jeep liberties are not bad at all. I've seen the pictures of the s30's that are just dropped on the Jeep frames. Well sure that works, but ugly.. If you really wanted to fit larger tires, you can do it. You'll need to get some BRE fender flares, and put them in the oven so you can stretch them wider, then cut your fenders to install the flares as high as you can( cutting width as well) From there, look at the shocks. Your suspension relies on long shocks. So cutting the shock towers out, and putting in shock hoop with coil overs would be a great idea. Look at some of the setups on lifted F250's, for ideas. You might also look at the Jeep liberty suspension for ideas on lifting a unibody. Liberties are also IRS, as are subaru's. You might consider installing bad dog rails and bolting skid plates to that. The S30 rails are thin metal and won't take much to bend them. A cage is highly recommended. The job of the car is to get you SAFELY where you want to go. Off road at speed, in a car that is not very wide is a recipe for a rollover. Using wider tires can help with your stability. You don't need 35' or 38's if you're not crawling. The larger tires with smaller rims, especially aired down inprove your grip over rocks and sand. Large tires and large rims smooth out the bumps and won't bounce as much, but aren't as good for crawling. You'll need to decide how you're going to use this. Will it be offroad speed? (I would assume it is) or will it be focused on rock crawling? How you're setting it up would certainly vary on your end goals. I'd really like to see where you do with this. How are your fabrication skills? Welding? You might also look through some of the swap threads to get an idea of how much fun swapping an engine is. Edited June 11, 2012 by Pharaohabq Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suparman Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 Welding and fabrication are easy I was once an assistant manager for a fabrication company, We mainly did structural steel. Things like moment frames and beams but also did hand rails and other small things. The last truck I built was a 73 international short bed, I put a 350 motor and trans in there as well as a np205 transfer case I had Alcan make springs and sat it on 36's It was sweet wish I still had it.. My problem is unless a engineer or architect hands me plans I don't know where to start,lol, I get lost with out directions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suparman Posted June 11, 2012 Author Share Posted June 11, 2012 As far as engines go I am going to go with Tony's advice and keep it simple he has shown copious amounts of evidence that these cars were good back then and now in a relatively stock form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pharaohabq Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Okay, no problem. Welded Diff is likely the best case then, or an LSD. I dont know if you can get a locker for the R200. Not as good as 4x4, but if you don't have that option then 2 wheel drive is better than 1. It's your car so it's fully up to you. I imagine with flares what you could likely fit 31's If the travel is high enough, then you may not have too much trouble being off road. I imagine you could probably lift the car 5" over stock without too much trouble, but if you changed to front suspension to something similar to the Jeep TJ, You'd have much more travel than the Stock S30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I follow the Kenya Rally as a chassis I supplied through Z-Spec here in Sint-Odenerode Netherlands was apparently prepped and has competed there since 2009. That is what his company does, competition preparation for Classic Racing and Rally. Paris-To-Dakar kind of stuff. The 240/60/80 is a tough chassis, it's not so much needing heavier metal on the underlying structures, but properly stich-welding the seams, and getting the skid plates right. You guys would probably hang me if you knew what I've done to my Z's offroad. As a kid, I would go out into the forest to watch the night stages of the POR in Michigan. I found the mix of cars, from factory fire breathing superpowered monsters, to stock VW Rabbits with exhausts ripped off and what sounded like two burned valves being driven at 110% down narrow dirt roads with trees inches away addictive. Somewhere, I have Super8 25' reels of Ektrachrome... on these reels there are clips of a dark green 1969 Corvair Monza getting air over a particular stretch of road near Michigan's Silver Valley Recreation Area. I came to the realization that once we had optimized the speed to gain maximum altitude on this particular area...there appeared to be enough clearance to actually lay on the road, where the car would easily clear you in both vertical and horizontal planes... The last clip on that film was of the front end of a Dark Green 1969 Corvair Monza launching over the cameraman, the undercarriage of the car, and a nice 'from the rear at ground level' shot of the landing. All the driver said was "Where were you shooting from? I didn't see you when I launched." Oh, wait till you see the shot, I got it, it's perfect! When we viewed that, my mother was walking by as everybody was shouting....and the reel went into hiding very quickly! It was viewed sporadically over the next couple of years. I think the Adults thought it was some California Stag Film. In a way, it was the forerunner of today's Gonzo Themed Porn....Our Gonzo Rally-Car Porn! Kids, Don't Try This on Your Own... Oh, and the driver about FREAKED when he saw it. "YOUCRAZYSONOFABITCHYOUWERELAYINGINTHEROADBEYONDTHERISE?!?!?!?!?!" Yeah, your point being? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarageRatt13 Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 This makes me want to build one of these for the New England winters.... that would be so much fun!! Gotta finish the current Z first though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 Never underestimate the fun of loose gravel, a light flywheel, and unpopulated forest fire roads running tall ridges... Just watch out for the Gleaming Alloy Air-Cars which are two-lanes wide! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 (edited) Not with 36-38" tires he didn't. If you are going to make offhanded comments, at least be intellectually honest doing so! Oh come on Tony! You should have clearly seen that I was more poking at the prevalent response that a "lifted Z won't work". I made no reference to a tire size "working" or having been done by Brock. I was merely trying to say that a lifted, rally setup has been done and done effectively. Edited June 13, 2012 by Gollum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 I think in Tony's pics above the car is set at tarmac ride height with tarmac suspension bits on it. I regularly sell 280Z front and rear LCAs, 280Z cross members and steering racks, composite hoods and hatches, and other US spec 280Z parts to a couple Z rally car builders in the UK. One of the cars (Geoff Bell and Tim Chale's 260Z) running some of my parts came in second overall in last year's East African Safari rally. Looking at the way the hood is lifting up in the above pic that 260Z is going at least 100 mph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VKLR Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 (edited) Oh come on Tony! You should have clearly seen that I was more poking at the prevalent response that a "lifted Z won't work". I made no reference to a tire size "working" or having been done by Brock. I was merely trying to say that a lifted, rally setup has been done and done effectively. Well I'm not really taking it that way myself. You seemed to knock my reply. If the OP did build a car to his original wishes i'll stand by my statement. I'm speaking from 33 years of working on cars....where are you coming from?? Rally cars have been proven to be a reliable race car. I don't know of a Z car WITH THE ORIGINAL FRAME running 38" tires. If there is show me one if not please keep your ill informed comments to yourself. Edited June 14, 2012 by VKLR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Settle down boys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 John gets the prize for the FRP hood observation---with that undebelly skid pan, even airborne the air gets compressed in the engine bay and has to find a way out. On a car with no undertray, when you jump it, an FRP Hood will close back up as the air pressurized under the car looses one wall of containment (the roadway) and the lift under the hood drops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sileightygx Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Just got a chance to read through all of this and wanted to thank Tony for the AWESOME close up pics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Well I'm not really taking it that way myself. You seemed to knock my reply. If the OP did build a car to his original wishes i'll stand by my statement. I'm speaking from 33 years of working on cars....where are you coming from?? Rally cars have been proven to be a reliable race car. I don't know of a Z car WITH THE ORIGINAL FRAME running 38" tires. If there is show me one if not please keep your ill informed comments to yourself. I never meant for you to take offense to what I said. What you said was definitely accurate and I have no quarrels with it. I just simply feel that instead of telling the OP to scale up the project design to meet the goals that it makes more sense to scale down the project design to meet more realistic goals. Usually people tend to get ahead of themselves with projects and tend to go overboard. From what the OP was saying he wanted "to have fun doing some off roading" (paraphrased) he doesn't need 38" wheels and I was just trying to push him into the direction of a brock-like design goal. Instead of going for rock-crawler status and running HUGE wheels, why not run a simpler setup that will still "work"? That's my point. It has NOTHING to do with getting into a pissing match on who's done more or knows more about X. I'm sure you're not an idiot, again, I never intended you to feel I was saying that. I just don't like people getting advice that either shuts down their idea, or gets them going MUCH further down the project road than needed to get to something they'll be happy with. Much like tell people to find out what 200-300hp in a S30 feels like before assuming they want 500+hp because that's what they're used to coming from other chassis that are considerably heavier. John C ~ I'm trying to be as civil as I can be here and hopefully it shows. I'm in the middle of a 9 day project working 12 hour days + 3 hours of commuting a day. If this post needs to be deleted for any reason feel free and I'm sorry if I don't respond in the next 4 days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I'm on an island in the Coral Sea... Getting ready to travel back to the USA. If I don't respond for the next four days, you now know where I am at as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suparman Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 Yes I am a classic example of getting ahead of Myself that is why I post my ideas like this here, I find more intelligent people can keep me from going to big .. lol thank you all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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