Gollum Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Michael ~ Don't underestimate the 16-25 yea olds out there. Look at the huge surge of interest in classic Japanese cars. Look at how many S2000's Honda has sold and the staggering amount of sub 30 buyers that managed to afford it. The young male demographic in America is still definitely car crazy. More and more I see classic old American cars being driven by young kids, and you can tell it's not "daddy's". I'm seeing and meeting young people all over the place that only have mild interest in NEW cars and are more interested in something with character. That's the thing, is that the BRZ/FRS has a chance to be the "supra" of the 20-teens, the Japanese car that kids drool over, yet it's completely different in that it's actually affordable. There's just nothing on the market like it, and the sad thing is that in history it's always been Nissan leading the way in the sports car market in Japan. bjhines ~ Please let is know what you think when you drive one. I've seen a couple up close but haven't had the pleasure yet. Gawd to the just look perfect though. And comparing to a Lotus I'd much rather climb into the BRZ everyday, if that's it's intended use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 (edited) Michael ~ Don't underestimate the 16-25 yea olds out there. Look at the huge surge of interest in classic Japanese cars. Look at how many S2000's Honda has sold and the staggering amount of sub 30 buyers that managed to afford it. The young male demographic in America is still definitely car crazy. More and more I see classic old American cars being driven by young kids, and you can tell it's not "daddy's". I'm seeing and meeting young people all over the place that only have mild interest in NEW cars and are more interested in something with character. That's the thing, is that the BRZ/FRS has a chance to be the "supra" of the 20-teens, the Japanese car that kids drool over, yet it's completely different in that it's actually affordable. There's just nothing on the market like it, and the sad thing is that in history it's always been Nissan leading the way in the sports car market in Japan. bjhines ~ Please let is know what you think when you drive one. I've seen a couple up close but haven't had the pleasure yet. Gawd to the just look perfect though. And comparing to a Lotus I'd much rather climb into the BRZ everyday, if that's it's intended use. I've driven the Lotus and sat in the BRZ, and I can tell you that the BRZ is a hell-of-a-lot more comfortable than the Elise! I'm 6'2", 185lb and barely fit in the Lotus, and this is with the top down. Plus, the Subie is a bit more practical than the Lotus. The BRZ felt great, I was surprised by the comfortable yet supportive seats and spacious head room. I'd definitely like to drive one sometime. Don't think I'd trade my S2000 for one though! BTW, I watched yesterday made by our own "karotta", nice take on the car. I agree on the styling, I think they over-did the front but the overall shape and proportions of the car are well done. I'd change the wheels though. Edited July 13, 2012 by Leon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 "Might add that that RWD ToyoSubi coupe thing is selling like hot cakes in AU, to me it's a reincarnation of the S30 in concept, pricing.... Problem is that the AU market is nothing compared with the US so we can get a bit frustrated with what RWD coupes are available to us and at what price." Let me cry crocodile tears for you sir.... A market with 22million people gets Holden Sports Utes with massive HP A Ford Falcon Ute with a big inline six (also in their coupe/sedan), a TURBO INLINE SIX, and a V8.... (and a company history of favouring the inline six over the V8, Mad Max's Garage Partner nothwithstanding!) The USA gets nothing. GM-H was the ONLY profitable division in GM when they went bankrupt... HUGE investment in motorsports and performance vehicle marketing specialty vehicle divisions that actually produce roadgoing cars... And all sorts of Nissan Stuff not available here. CALIFORNIA has 54 million people, WTF? WHY are we tethered to the Ossified Brains in Dearborn, The Ren Cen, and Aburn Hills? Why can't WE get a standalone division just like GM-H or Ford AU? WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY!!!!!!!!??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Why can't WE get a standalone division just like GM-H or Ford AU? Boy would THAT solve some of this 49 versus 1 state CARB crap! Am I the only one that gets infuriated when they find out something about a car is amiss till you find out it's a CA VIN car with a special CA abnormality? It's happened to me more than once... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Make that 26 million since Holden and Ford Australia were NZ's top selling car brands for a LONG time, and still have a significant presence despite the predatory inroads of the Jap makers. As to Why GM-H is standalone? well Holden was an independant australian company before being bought out by GM and has some government interferance to keep it Aussie... I can't explain Ford AU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidnightRider Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 Hopefully the net generation Z won't be as ugly: And will look as good as the concept that got it all hyped up: My reaction when I saw the production version: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 Unfortunately both Ford (particularly) and GMH are not doing so well in AU lately, SUV's are eating into their traditional family car market. Which is a pity because the four liter Ford Falcon straight six is a great car, particularly the turbo version. I'm thinking of getting one for a tow car. Back to the BRZ/FRS. I know of several people who have ordered these, from all reports they are good for tall drivers and the dynamics are very good. All they need is some forced inductiion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK240ZT Posted July 16, 2012 Share Posted July 16, 2012 I wouldn't mind seeing a 160ZT... the Nissan juke's turbo 1.6L direct injected motor in a chassis ~2700-2800 lbs would not be so bad IMO. If power came up to 200+, and with a torque peak of 177 from 2k-5.6k rpm it would be a blast through canyons and on an autox course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spotmy4 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Motor Trend is reporting that its going to be a "front-drive-based sports car"... http://www.motortrend.com/future/future_vehicles/1207_nissan_working_on_mini_z_to_target_frs_brz/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Juday Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 That "mini-Z" is not pretty. Maybe the Chinese will like it, it's being built for them and other emerging markets. We likely won't see it, thank God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 WOW!!!! I drove a BRZ today and I am pretty sure I will buy one. The Scion dealers have more of them available. The Subie dealer has a waiting list for orders taken. That said, The Scion dealership did not have one to test drive so I went to the local Subaru dealer to give it a whirl. I showed up at the Subaru dealership in my track prepped E36 BMW M3/4/5. I drove spiritedly on the way there to get me loosened up and ready for a decent comparison. The dealer had a black, automatic, BRZ ready to go. I drove the automatic and felt like I had one foot tied behind my back, but it could be gotten used to. The car feels great. It is flat and responsive just like the M3, but the BRZ takes up the harsher bumps with grace where the modified M3 feels like it will break off a wheel. The M3 is on aggressive tires where the BRZ is fitted with narrow long life econo tires. The BMW will definitly out-grip the BRZ, but that could just be a tire change away from nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger280zx Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Why are all of you wishing for a 4 cyl Z. A vq weighs almost exactly the same as a sr20det and besides every single z started as a 2 seat, rwd, 6 cylinder, sports car. Through the 80's and 90's while the big three struggled to use their name sakes on tiny front drive econo boxes with NO performance (a few exeptions) Nissan was able to keep the Z true to its roots. Yeah they had hidden cocaine compartments, T tops, flip up headlights, and whiz-bang all wheel steering, to name a few... But they stayed within the package of two seat (mostly) 6 cyl, rear drive and IMO that is how they should stay. Yours truly holding and hoping for a 240 style throwback (everbody's doin it) with a 3.0 or ahem 3.2 vq and affordable inovation-the way they did it in 1970 with IRS, in '75 with bosch injection, and again in '79 with 4 wheel disks. With the price of composits and fancy suspension coming down I see no reason why they couldn't build a Z with 300 hp, 2800 lbs, and under $28k. Save the infinity G version for all your long wheel base luxury crap and give us a decent road car! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Toyota and Subaru have delivered a modern version of the 240Z. This is a unique little car. I understand the aversion to another 4 cylinder coupe. Like it or not, modern engine design and chassis safety reinforcement have combined to make a relatively light car with the right amount of power, with stunning feel. The outcome is a boxer-4 which is pretty neat innovation in it's own right. This boxer is mounted low and delivers on the promise of LOW center of gravity, unlike the rest of the Subaru line which has the engine OVER the transmission. The suspension allows very little weight transfer at the limits of traction. The ride is firm and FLAT, yet it handles bumps without jarring. The BRZ is not a fancy car. It has stamped sheet metal control arms galore. The engine is sufficient for the ride. I am pretty sure I could make some changes for the better. Battery is HUGE!, it is mounted in the front passenger side, high up. We can change that. The muffler is enormous and takes up the entire rear of the car. That has to go. The control arms are thin sheet steel stampings that might benefit from some some boxing in. add a roll-bar for time trials It has an optional $900 rear skirt aero and nothing for the front. The car sits high with a lot of room for lowering. It appears to have an R-160 rear end, CLSD anyone? The interior is pretty lightweight. The doors are surprisingly light for a new car. I don't think there is much interior to remove for weight savings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger280zx Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 You could liken Subaru to the Datsun of yester year. A smaller corporation that is not affraid to take risks. And not unlike Datsun they have extensive development and after market support for their last concept, the wrx and sti. They have learned from their experience and know their short comings; infact, they are even smart enough to harness the mass production and scale of a would be competitor and have teamed with them to develop a market changing car. I hope that Nissan's response to this won't be too little too late. I'm confident that they can engineer the next Z in a timely manner, and hopefully it will carry on the tradition of very high performance in an AFFORDABLE package. All that being said I guess it is just the Z man in me yearning for Nissan to push the envelope. I am a Subaru owner as well (albeit NOT a performance model) and frankly I LOVE the BRZ and the 86, LOVE! Only time will tell how this next Z comes along, but my vote will go to a 6 cyl base with maybe even a twin turbo premium model in the future... Look out Mustang/Camaro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Why are all of you wishing for a 4 cyl Z. A vq weighs almost exactly the same as a sr20det I don't think ANY of us "want" a 4 cylinder Z, nor do any of us think the V6 is a reason the 370Z is a blubbery pig of a car. An engine is just a SMALL portion of the weight of a vehicle. We should all know and understand this. What most of us have an issue with is a Z car that's well over 3,000 pounds and costs well beyond the "budget sports car" range. Nissan might have stayed true to the roots of what the Z was on paper, 2 doors, 2 seats, engine in the front, axles at the back... But that's about it. Oh, the kept 6 cylinders but I could care less about that since they ditched the inline 6. The BRZ is great. But I think we can do EVEN BETTER. Where's the Z that weighs in sub 2500 pounds? Nissan should be able to take the BRZ on at it's own game and smother it. There's absolutely no reason the VQ needs to be "expensive" for nissan. They've been making it for decades now and they should be cheap to make. Quite piling on new features and just leave it for a change. Focus money elsewhere. Even a maxima spec VQ from the early 00's would be monstrous in a 2500 pound car. So DO IT! I don't care if that means it doesn't come with Sat Nav, or a killer stereo, or even power steering!!! The 370Z base model is equipped better than my 280ZX with power everything, and the top of the line 370Z is equipped like a trimmed out infinity sedan. It's all overkill and NEEDS TO GO. That's my issue with the current Z car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 You could liken Subaru to the Datsun of yester year. A smaller corporation that is not affraid to take risks. And not unlike Datsun they have extensive development and after market support for their last concept, the wrx and sti. They have learned from their experience and know their short comings; infact, they are even smart enough to harness the mass production and scale of a would be competitor and have teamed with them to develop a market changing car. I hope that Nissan's response to this won't be too little too late. I'm confident that they can engineer the next Z in a timely manner, and hopefully it will carry on the tradition of very high performance in an AFFORDABLE package. All that being said I guess it is just the Z man in me yearning for Nissan to push the envelope. I am a Subaru owner as well (albeit NOT a performance model) and frankly I LOVE the BRZ and the 86, LOVE! Only time will tell how this next Z comes along, but my vote will go to a 6 cyl base with maybe even a twin turbo premium model in the future... Look out Mustang/Camaro. Did someone just sneakily repost a camouflaged version of Post #15? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger280zx Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Did someone just sneakily repost a camouflaged version of Post #15? After a second read it sure looks like I did, great minds think alike To avoid pirating any one else's thoughts I'll step back and wait on further developments from Nissan. And WOW I had no idea they were considering sueing clubs for copyright bs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Does BMW make a Z1 coupe on the 1 series chassis like the Z3/M3 on the 3 series? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Does BMW make a Z1 coupe on the 1 series chassis like the Z3/M3 on the 3 series? Z1 M Roadster, oh gawd I need a moment.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted July 24, 2012 Share Posted July 24, 2012 The roadsters are heavier than you think considering they were designed with no roof. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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