2eighTZ4me Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 For my 73 turbo track car. Had a Ron Davis and the P.O.S. separated at the tanks. Sent it back to them after only 3 years and less than 1000 miles of service and they said they can't repair it. What a freakin' crock....That's the last time I do business with those bastages....sooooo.... I've been poking around here and seen mixed reviews with the Koyos, Champions, and PRC's. I don't want to break the bank like I did with the Ron Davis unit. - so looking for advice from those that actually drive the piss out of their car on the track and what issues and/or successes you had with your choice. My preference would be a direct fit, but I have access to a very good TIG welder who can fab up mounts on just about anything. This is a turbo setup with 3" intercooler piping, and it's a 3.1 stroker L series - so it gets hot when I'm beating on it. I have a 16" Spal electric fan (puller) that does a good job of keeping it cool at idle. Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z Greek Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I bought a 2 row Champion for my Chumpcar, but I have not tried it out yet. The construction looks very good. I went with 2 row due to the large size of the tubes. Currently we are running a stock rad (I would have to look, but I am pretty sure it is a 3 row) from a later model 280. The engine in the Chumper is a 2.8 that made 178whp on a new Dynojet 24, so I don't have near the waste heat that you do with your godzilla stroker turbo, but we do run in 100 degree eastern Washington heat for 24 hours at a time, and water temp stays rock solid at 190. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Any radiator you install must not be bolted directly to the front core support. The core support flexes and will slowly tear a part a solidly mounted radiator. Happens much sooner with an aluminum radiator and tank separation is the first sign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2eighTZ4me Posted August 17, 2012 Author Share Posted August 17, 2012 I had 1/3" thick rubber grommets/spacers between the core support and the rad. Is that not good enough? If not, what is the recommended mounting method? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS Speed Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I spaced mine 1/4 inch from the support and sealed the sides with foam door trim from pepboys/kragon/autozone to keep a good seal and not to put any pressure up against the rad at all. Highly recommend PRC radiators, haven't had a problem in 3 years and I know a ton of guys on the RB board run them too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z Greek Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Any radiator you install must not be bolted directly to the front core support. The core support flexes and will slowly tear a part a solidly mounted radiator. Happens much sooner with an aluminum radiator and tank separation is the first sign. Great point, thanks for pointing this out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 Any radiator you install must not be bolted directly to the front core support. The core support flexes and will slowly tear a part a solidly mounted radiator. Happens much sooner with an aluminum radiator and tank separation is the first sign. It seems to follow then that bracing the core support would make the car more rigid. Does the core support flexing come from overall chassis flexing or just the weight of the front end hanging on it? And I assume/guess the flexing is seen mostly at driving extremes since the stock radiator is solidly mounted. Does the flexing contribute to early failure of stock radiators? I just replaced mine and wondered as I installed it. Collecting ideas on simple ways to get a stiffer chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 A bolt going through the radiator and the core support with a rubber washer between the radiator and the core support will only work if the bolt has a significantly smaller OD then the holes it passes through. For the radiator mounting that would mean a 6mm bolt - which can carry the load just fine if its class 10.9. The core support racks from side to side and twists so the standard 8mm bolt will not allow enough movement even with a rubber washer. But, this concern only comes into play with bigger/sticker wheels and tires and autocross or track events. Maybe it also happens on rough roads or really bad driveways. I build a cradle (pictures below) for my racing radiators. You can also use lord mounts shown in the link to McMasterCarr. http://www.mcmaster.com/#vibration-damping-sandwich-mounts/=iw2gkc part number 4403K76 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2eighTZ4me Posted August 20, 2012 Author Share Posted August 20, 2012 Will the lord mounts provide enough flex to do the job properly? The cradle seems like the best bet, but the lord mounts would be a lot less work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 I've used and installed the lord mounts on a few customer cars. Not problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavy85 Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 bump - recommendations? I have a LS1 / 240Z. The stock radiator did OK for street driving and for all of about 1 1/2 laps on track. Switched to a Champion + improved airflow + oil cooler and it helped a LOT. Now added a cam and ~50 hp and am back to hitting 230 deg within about 3 laps. Want to upgrade again for next year and am just now researching options. Anyone with REAL world track experience? I'm at 365 whp. Thanks Cameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmanco Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I'm running the aluminum AFCO from MSA with my turbo L28 ~300 whp and see 235F water temps (and 250F oil with 25 row Earl's cooler) within 15 minutes on 85F days at the track (at which point I usually back off). This is at ~5k feet elevation which doesn't help either. I don't think this a radiator issue as much as it's an airflow to the radiator issue. See Proxlamus' thread about blocking off the inlet to the radiator to see how managing flow into the rad will affect cooling. I have not gone that route as I don't want to change the look of the car, so have accepted that I just have to live with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EF Ian Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 (edited) I'm thinking of getting a Koyo but haven't been able to find many reviews on them, what did you find out? Also if you are looking for more cooling you should look into improving the airflow around the front end and radiator (theres good info on front end aero on this forum)Plus putting a decent shroud on the radiator is meant to improve cooling loads. Edited September 23, 2012 by EF Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelsonian Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Been watching this thread and taking notes as I will sooner than later need to address the mounting of my radiator. I'm liking the cradle method that you have there John. Does anyone have any feedback on the Arizona Zcar radiator?, as that is what I have. I am planning on autocrossing as well as occasionally dragging the car with an l28et in the low 400 hp range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2eighTZ4me Posted September 23, 2012 Author Share Posted September 23, 2012 (edited) Wow - you guys' water temps are insane. My car has never gotten over 195 in dripping wet Atlanta heat in June. I'm running a factory thermostat and not one of those restrictor plates. I'm at 415rwhp on 16psi of boost and never has it ever gotten over 200 (except when my fan relay. went toes up). My problem was clearly flex in the core support area that ripped the radiator apart. I now have a cradle welded to the front roll bar that goes along my core support. I ended up buying a 24x19 PRC unit - and lo and behold - with the filler neck and cap on, it won't clear my hood. The tangs along the top and bottom of the radiator add about 3/8- 1/2" on the top and bottom, making it actually a little over 20" tall. Add the extra 1.25" for the filler neck and cap, and you're easily at 21+ inches. Too tall for the hood to clear. The cradle was made with a Griffin 24x19 as the unit to model - the PRC's 24x19 has a little different specs for a radiator (advertised as) the same size. Note to self...... Luckily - I need a rad for my turbo street car that has a completely factory core support. I am going to be building another cradle system for a stock S30 and I'll be posting pics as to how it works with PRC's 24x19 unit. The cradle looks like it will be real easy, as the rad needs to sit even with the bottom of the lower core support - you could almost bolt on a flush bracket right at the bottom and hold it that way. Instead of going the full encompassing setup like John's - I've made a couple of flexible aluminum strip holders that bolt in the stock upper radiator bolt holes and just hold the side tanks of the radiator - allowing full flex from side to side - so I think it will be the way to go. Easy and cheap, and allows the radiator to move considerably (with the flex of the 1/2" aluminum strip) and holds it in place good and solid. I'll get pics up once we get the stock S30 cradle made. John is right - it IS the way to go if you're beating the car up on the track. Edited September 23, 2012 by 2eighTZ4me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmanco Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 My car has never gotten over 195 in dripping wet Atlanta heat in June. Is that on the street or the track? I don't mean to argue with you, it's just hard to imagine an S30 with its poor aerodynamics making 400+ whp and not exceeding 195 on a road course. What else have you done to improve cooling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Cooling a S30 for track use means paying attention to all of the little details. All the air entering the front of the car must pass through the radiator - that means sealing all around the radiator and core support, plugging unused holes openings in the cor support, sealing the top of the core support to the hood, and sealing the bottom of the core support to the front valance. You also need to make sure the air has a nice, low pressure place to go after it leaves the radiator. For a pure track car removing all fans helps with that or, at a minimum, make sure your fan shroud seals well and maybe add some flaps that open up at speed. A front belly pan to the cross member also helps create a low pressure area behind the radiator. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2eighTZ4me Posted September 24, 2012 Author Share Posted September 24, 2012 Zmanco - that's on the track - after a 20 minute session of pretty heavy use. Mind you, my bottom core support has been cut out and replaced with a 1" rollbar. I taped off all extraneous holes in the core support with the silver aluminum tape. I also taped between the intercooler and core support and core support/radiator. All air was directed through the IC/radiator. The PO of the car was a Ga. Tech graduate and he built a pan style front end that came off the backside of the air dam and feeds the bottom of the radiator. I just had a 2 core Ron Davis unit - single pass - and she never got hot once. Maybe I need to take a few pics of my setup - I can't explain it very well - but a picture's worth a couple hundred words at least. Just got the motor back in it last night, but haven't put the radiator in yet, so I should be able to get some decent shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavy85 Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Pics would be great. I have already done what John said details and all plus hood vents. I was finally ok with cooling then the splitter actually seemed to hurt a bit then added the extra power and am back in not ideal shape. Is the ron davis custom or they make one to fit? Thanks Cameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2eighTZ4me Posted October 15, 2012 Author Share Posted October 15, 2012 Sorry for the delay folks - I just got my PRC custom built unit the other day and did a mockup fit over the weekend. Once I take it back out to mount the fan, I will get detailed pics of the front end of the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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