Resale project question

[ry579233]

Hello all

 

I have been given a 240z body (no engine/trans).  Its going to need some rust work, paint, and interior work if I plan on restoring it.  My plan is to invest a nice amount of time and whatever money that is financially smart for a resale.  I am considering all options here to make the best turn around profit.  I have considered doing:

 

1) a V8 swap (used SBC and T5) and skipping interior work to make it a track car

2) V8 swap (used SBC and T5) with total interior overhaul

3) finding new z motor/tans and restoring car

 

I realize lots of people do not like the V8 swap and are going to tell me to restore it to stock just because.  But my only intentions here with this project is to flip it and make a few bucks.  

 

I just wanted other peoples opinions on this project.  Thanks in advance!

 

Ryan

[NewZed]

What year is it?  Early 240s are popular restored, later ones not so much.

 

The simplest way to get a good idea is to watch CL for a while and see what sells for what.  From what I've seen, most people don't want to buy someone else's V8 conversion unless it's very well done.  I see the same V8 swaps listed for months and sometimes years.  Most people seem to buy these cars so they'll have something to play with on the weekends.  They (we) spend lots of money on them, either a nickel and dime at a time or in big chunks, and stop keeping track once the number gets really big.  The odds of recouping your investment costs, let alone making a profit, are terrible.

[ry579233]

It is an early 240z.  The z that is in my default picture.

Edited March 12, 2013 by ry579233

[rejracer]

If profit i the motive then here are your options: 

1. put in a stock z engine(next to free in price) and sell immediately. 

2. Sell it now, as is.

3. Part it out. 

 

Order is from least to most profit.  There is no profit to be made in any engine swap in my opinion.  These cars do not have a high enough resale value to make profit. 

[mattb3562]

I agree with rejracer. I love my Z, but they just don't have the return yet. If mine were a a 67-70 Nova or Camaro in the same condition, it would bring 5x what my car would now.

[Xnke]

If it's not titled as a '69 or clearly a series I car, then it's just another engineless shell and it's worth what it's worth in your area. If it was in perfect condition, it *might* bring 8K as a running, driving, nicely painted car with a good interior.

 

I paid 1000$ for a running, driving shell with rusted out floor pans, poor interior, and heavy body damage. (I didn't know about the body damage until the car arrived.)

[Tony D]

If profit i the motive then here are your options: 

1. put in a stock z engine(next to free in price) and sell immediately. 

2. Sell it now, as is.

3. Part it out. 

 

Order is from least to most profit.  There is no profit to be made in any engine swap in my opinion.  These cars do not have a high enough resale value to make profit. 

 

Agreed, nothing you put into it will return the money. Once it's rolling and driving, you already have hours of time and the longer you spend the less time your input is worth.

[zohanisback]

I chuckled inside when you said invest money in a car to make a profit.  Not to put you down at all, many people think they can make money restoring cars, but that's rare...  If you want to make money at cars:

 

1. Pull junkyard parts on rare cars and repaint/refinish them

2. Buy broken cars for $800 that need a starter/fuel pump and flip a few hundred bucks at a time

3. Buy newer cars with body damage or significant engine problems and do the work yourself

4. Buy classic cars and part them out.

 

You can also buy classics for next to nothing and fix the engines and sell.  That will make you a few hundred to a grand if the car is rare and you really press hard for a good price.

 

I also respectfully disagree with jracer. You can snag an engine from a yard and throw it in for $300 and add $500 - $1000 to the value. Why? Because people like having cars complete to do a restore on.  Just my .02 cents.

[Tony D]

I also respectfully disagree with jracer. You can snag an engine from a yard and throw it in for $300 and add $500 - $1000 to the value. Why? Because people like having cars complete to do a restore on.  Just my .02 cents.

How is that disagreeing? It looks like you said the exact same thing we both said: put an engine in it to get it complete and sell it. People do prefer a complete car.

One that moves under its own power is nice, but not necessary.

The engine in place and running makes an incremental payout over if it moves the car or not.

[Tony D]

A car is a hole in the air, suspended there by four rubber doughnuts, doughnuts which you can not eat.

Into this hole, you throw money which you will never see again...

Dighera's Axiom of Automobiles

[zohanisback]

If profit i the motive then here are your options: 

1. put in a stock z engine(next to free in price) and sell immediately. 

2. Sell it now, as is.

3. Part it out. 

 

Order is from least to most profit.  There is no profit to be made in any engine swap in my opinion.  These cars do not have a high enough resale value to make profit. 

 

Option 1: Least profit

Option 2: Medium profit

Option 3: Most profit

 

How is that disagreeing? It looks like you said the exact same thing we both said: put an engine in it to get it complete and sell it. People do prefer a complete car.

One that moves under its own power is nice, but not necessary.

The engine in place and running makes an incremental payout over if it moves the car or not.

 

I think that putting an engine in will be MORE profit than selling a shell. Rejracer is saying selling a shell yields more profit than putting a working engine in.  I disagree with that, I would say:

 

A running engine in the car is worth more than a shell, even after the cost of the engine. Parting out would yield the next highest profit. Selling a shell is gonna make you almost nothing.  I think

 

A car is a hole in the air, suspended there by four rubber doughnuts, doughnuts which you can not eat.

Into this hole, you throw money which you will never see again...

Dighera's Axiom of Automobiles

 

This is THE MOST TRUE statement ever made...

[Tony D]

Unless you're like me and has a buyer for rolling shells at a decent price...

 

Muahahahahaha!

[zohanisback]

Haha!  I'm willing to make new friends! 

 

But seriously, I FINALLY found a guy down in in SoCal close to me that will haul off a car stripped of all parts and still give me a few bucks for it. These ads saying they'll take "any car in any condition -- cash paid!"  It's B.S.  They want it to have an engine and transmission, body panels, intact interior, etc.  Where does that leave guys like us?  *sighs*

[rejracer]

"Where does that leave guys like us?  *sighs*"

 

With an eyesore of a  car that does not run, sitting in the garage/field rotting and losing further value. 

 

I did not really think there was much of a disagreement either.  Some people can put in an engine for very little.  I am one of those people.  I put a turbo engine in my 72, but I parted out the doner to pay for it.  I think I actually made about 200 bucks on the deal after the part out.  But man was it a LOT of work, and that was just getting the 280zx torn down.  The reason I posted what I did is the OP was asking about profit and V8 Swaps.  If someone needs to ask that question, it indicates they don't have a lot of experience with these cars or swaps.  That being the case I feel it would be misleading him to lead him on saying there's money to be made.  As far as what I posted, I still think it's accurate for the average guy. 

 

Key concepts from the original post:

 

240z (no engine/trans).  

needs rust work

needs paint

needs interior

financially smart for a resale.  

best turn around profit.

 

There is nothing in the above that indicates when running it will bring a 5k+ sale price.  A rusty, incomplete, faded,  but running Z in my neck of the woods brings about 500 to 1000 bucks.  Sure there are a few suckers that may pay more, but my fellow Z enthusiast, 500 tops.  If it does not run, or is sitting in a field then 200 max, and that's only if it has something on it one of us wants.  There's just too much risk with the illustrious barn car to contemplate a higher price.  If these cars brought higher prices then I would be willing to pay more, but when you add up the costs There's no way I would pay more. 

 

If one endeavors to fix the above then you are in restoration mode, and no way a restoration it going to happen for less than 10k.  There's just too much worn out/missing/damaged stuff on a 40 year old yard car to even contemplate a profit motivated restoration. 

 

Yes you can put an engine in it and make a quick profit.  That's why I listed it, but I don't think a person will make as much as selling it outright or parting it out.  I do however reserve the right to be completely and utterly wrong, and hope the OP can make a bit of cash without sticking it to the next guy. 

 

"It is naught, it is naught, said the buyer: but when he is gone his way, then he boasts."

 

***Reality sets in at point of sale***

[zohanisback]

"Where does that leave guys like us?  *sighs*"

 

With an eyesore of a  car that does not run, sitting in the garage/field rotting and losing further value. 

 

I did not really think there was much of a disagreement either.  Some people can put in an engine for very little.  I am one of those people.  I put a turbo engine in my 72, but I parted out the doner to pay for it.  I think I actually made about 200 bucks on the deal after the part out.  But man was it a LOT of work, and that was just getting the 280zx torn down.  The reason I posted what I did is the OP was asking about profit and V8 Swaps.  If someone needs to ask that question, it indicates they don't have a lot of experience with these cars or swaps.  That being the case I feel it would be misleading him to lead him on saying there's money to be made.  As far as what I posted, I still think it's accurate for the average guy. 

 

Key concepts from the original post:

 

240z (no engine/trans).  

needs rust work

needs paint

needs interior

financially smart for a resale.  

best turn around profit.

 

There is nothing in the above that indicates when running it will bring a 5k+ sale price.  A rusty, incomplete, faded,  but running Z in my neck of the woods brings about 500 to 1000 bucks.  Sure there are a few suckers that may pay more, but my fellow Z enthusiast, 500 tops.  If it does not run, or is sitting in a field then 200 max, and that's only if it has something on it one of us wants.  There's just too much risk with the illustrious barn car to contemplate a higher price.  If these cars brought higher prices then I would be willing to pay more, but when you add up the costs There's no way I would pay more. 

 

If one endeavors to fix the above then you are in restoration mode, and no way a restoration it going to happen for less than 10k.  There's just too much worn out/missing/damaged stuff on a 40 year old yard car to even contemplate a profit motivated restoration. 

 

Yes you can put an engine in it and make a quick profit.  That's why I listed it, but I don't think a person will make as much as selling it outright or parting it out.  I do however reserve the right to be completely and utterly wrong, and hope the OP can make a bit of cash without sticking it to the next guy. 

 

"It is naught, it is naught, said the buyer: but when he is gone his way, then he boasts."

 

***Reality sets in at point of sale***

 

I get your point and completely agree.  Any time someone tries to get a classic car for a profit...  LOL. Might as well start investing in those South American Realestate scams. You might have better luck if you can get pain and suffering from a lawsuit.

 

In Eastern Washington, where I just moved from, a non-running Z was 400 - 600 bucks.  I loved it.  I picked up my 280zx for the 5 spd swap for $100.  I've made $150 off it so far, and still have parts laying around. 

[motomanmike]

Is the dash cracked?

[Tony D]

Unless you got a friend that pays decently for a rolling chassis ("decently" is defined as above what was stated for a complete running car in the latest post...)

 

All depends on your market and environment.

 

East coast guys spend stupid money doing rust repair when the rust free chassis are still this cheap on the west coast.

 

In other parts of the world, prices are higher...but REMEMBER THIS: watch the price of scrap guys!!! You guys insisting on running or complete cars are only worth $500 are sending good cars to the crusher! A complete car can bring over $1,000 scrap price if it's large enough.

 

I had a trailer with rusted panels and chopped up ZX body parts which was a PITA to get rid of until the day I read mixed scrap was $600 a ton!!! He'll, no more looking for unlocked dumpsters to fill the night before trash collection! I trucked that trailer down to the scrap yard and picked up close to $1,000 for CRAP! My only lament was I didn't have the time to clear out three more cars which are complete rusted hulks. I need the parts, but the chassis can go bye bye... I'll get more from the scrap man than selling it outright, I'll take it down with water-filled mismatched wheels and tires, and wet sand wherever I can pack it!

 

It's common in Adverts I saw when searching back east for a full size van "price firm, I can get this much driving it to the scrap man, but it's just too nice a vehicle to waste like that!" Stick with terminal cheapness, and you WILL see nice cars scrapped!!!

[Pharaohabq]

I didn't know scrap was worth so much. I should check out the local prices.  If they're high enough I can grab the trailer and  drive around picking up dead cars cheap.  not necessarilly Z's of course. 

 

Really tho, in this specific case, I agree parting it is probably going to be his highest profit option.  I see tons of parts on Ebay that if we didn't have someone local I can buy from, then I'd be bidding for them.  There's a lot of profit to be made if you have the room to dismantle.  That's not really the issue here tho, it's time, How much is your time worth. How much did you buy the car for again?  Well it's worth about "That much".   The point is that something is worth what you can get someone to pay for it. 

 

You can spend your time making it more marketable by putting an engine in etc etc, but likely the cost will be more than you will get even for going back to stock.  The other downside to putting the engine in and all is that you have to make it relatively safe to drive which means fixing brakes and signals etc.  it's a can of worms.  ("Can you hear the can opener" is what my wife always asks!)   But ask yourself this: "Will I make more $ working at mickey D's for the same hours it will take to fix this car?"  if the answer is yes, then Sell it as a shell, if it's no, and you're 100% certain, then fix it.  I would bank the answer is yes...

[Tony D]

Seriously, it goes up and down, but no lie it was $643 a ton for mixed metals. The guys with the Sanford & Son trucks were piling it HIGH!

You just have to be very very careful about ownership, and what state dismantling laws are in existence. If your neighborhood busybody calls you in and the cops show up and find you with three firewalls and no paperwork...

 

"CHOP SHOP"

 

Buh Bye!

 

"The other downside to putting the engine in and all is that you have to make it relatively safe to drive which means fixing brakes and signals etc."

 

There is no downside, put the engine in and to the point where it starts. END JOB SELL. You will make nothing materially more for the car fixing that crap than you will over having it run.

 

Ask yourself this: if all the above things were working, and the engine DIDN'T run....Which would you pay for?

 

And frankly, once I do a power-on check rarely is there anything serious that needs attention. It's sold as a complete car, not a driver. Big Difference!

 

You can get away with that on a 240, probably not on a 260 or later vehicle. unless it's really nice looking. And then you wonder why they took the engine out in the first place!

Edited March 19, 2013 by Tony D

[9rider]

Modified car don't have value comparing to stock car. unless it was built from famous well known shop. I flipped couple cars and most of good selling was stock cars.

People want to buy stock car because :

Cheaper than modified car.

Mature buyers don't really want modified car. ( I don't say driving modified car is immature) Just saying if you swap v8 but guy or gal have RB taste, eg.

Worry modified stuff wasn't compatible or incorrectly put in and even if it is legal.

Want to have own fun modify on weekend with small amount fund little by little over the year.

To feel and understand the car when you do it yourself. 

 

Yup, stock is good, even the replacement parts are better but save money and quick sell. Just my 2 cents.