Chickenman Posted November 24, 2017 Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) Edited November 24, 2017 by Chickenman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted November 26, 2017 Author Share Posted November 26, 2017 Made this video to help explain my dilemma . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenman Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 Steve. I think you have some Basic settings wrong. You want Closed Loop and you need to change some of the other settings. When you go to Closed Loop, the Menu Bat Options will change. Try these for a start and LMK what happens: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenman Posted November 26, 2017 Share Posted November 26, 2017 BTW, I wouldn't put too much faith in just cycling the ignition on and off. The ECU stepper control needs RPM signals to return to the proper " Home " position. Turning Ignition On and Off repeatably may not be a useful test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted November 27, 2017 Author Share Posted November 27, 2017 Thanks Richard for your input as always . MS recommended using open loop so that’s why I chose it -thinking it would be easier . Ill try some of your settings when I get back into town . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenman Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 You can also change the PID values by changing Closed Loop Sensitivity to Advanced Mode Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softopz Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Have you seen this page? seems like you need to switch IAC wires or just the settings in tunerstudio https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tech/other/stepper-iac/ Problem: Valve moves, but in opposite direction of intended. Solutions: Both coils are wired backwards. Switch wires 1A for 1B, and 2A for 2B; With the current firmware, you can simply change the homing direction in the software. Older versions (and original Bowling & Grippo code) do not allow this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenman Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Edited my post from Friday. So my WAG ( Switch Homing direction from Closed to Open ) was correct !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted November 27, 2017 Author Share Posted November 27, 2017 Actually- I am still set up closed. From a DIY article https://www.diyautotune.com/support/tech/other/stepper-iac/ First, make sure that the idle control is set to “Stepper Valve”, not PWM or on/off idle control. For initial testing, we recommend using open loop instead of closed loop. Closed loop requires more complicated settings and has more that can potentially go wrong. The time step size is how long the stepper driver will command an individual step. If the valve is perfectly dialed in, this will match the time it takes the coil move the motor through a single step. If this value is too low, the step is not completed, and the valve does not move. If the step is too high, the valve will move more slowly than it can – but otherwise there aren’t any consequences. Your best bet is to set this for 10 ms, then decrease until the valve no longer moves. Then add 0.5 to 1.0 ms. 4 wire valves that turn freely usually need to use “Always On” mode. Valves that are difficult to spin by hand usually need to use “Moving Only” mode; the same goes for all 5 or 6 wire valves. The homing steps (called “start value” in older code versions) needs to be set to a large enough value that the valve retracts fully from any position the valve can reach during operation. The current MS3 and MS2/Extra code allow you to specify if the valve closes or opens on startup. Regardless of which position it is set for, you need to set the number of homing steps high enough that it will move all the way to this position no matter where it starts I guess I need to change this in my tune. I believe 'turn freely' explains or describes my stepper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenman Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 (edited) Yeah... I wasn't 100% sure on that Mode ( Always On etc ). But it's nice you can flip the Direction in the Software instead of having to re-wire. Frackin' MS help files sure are nicely organised and easy to understand.... NOT!!! Biggest weak point of the whole product IMHO. Edited November 27, 2017 by Chickenman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted November 27, 2017 Author Share Posted November 27, 2017 3 minutes ago, Chickenman said: Yeah... I wasn't 100% sure on that Mode ( Always On etc ). But it's nice you can flip the Direction in the Software instead of having to re-wire. yes it is-but I had/have so many other issues I didn't know if switching directions was helping me. I think I have a plan now. Just need to get off the RR and implement ! Wish I was retired like the Chickenman! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenman Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) The old Datsun AAR valve isn't looking so bad now is it.... LOL Ironically... you could use one and control it very easily with the MS. I use a later Z31 AAR valve on my 280Z. 22660-30P10. You can take this one apart and clean the oily gunk out. Edited November 28, 2017 by Chickenman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenman Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 11 hours ago, madkaw said: yes it is-but I had/have so many other issues I didn't know if switching directions was helping me. I think I have a plan now. Just need to get off the RR and implement ! Wish I was retired like the Chickenman! Wish I had a garage like you!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 5 hours ago, Chickenman said: The old Datsun AAR valve isn't looking so bad now is it.... LOL Ironically... you could use one and control it very easily with the MS. I use a later Z31 AAR valve on my 280Z. 22660-30P10. You can take this one apart and clean the oily gunk out. I think I have one sitting on a 82 intake behind my GARAGE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenman Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 I was actually half kidding about reverting to the AAR dinosaur... but sometimes simple is better LOL. If you don't need any Idle Kick for AC or something, the good old AAR works good enough. Certainly less of a PITA to setup. You could even install the original ThermoTime Switch... but that would be too funny You can also use Ignition Timing Idle advance to give a few more degrees of advance when the engine is cold. The Federal model 280Z engines did this. They had Dual VR sensors in the dizzy. One was advanced ( Phased ) about 6 degrees from normal, and only operated while the engine was cold. MS has a programmable cold advance idle curve that you can do the same thing with. Advances low RPM range a set number of degrees over base timing table until engine wrams up. Works quite well and is simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted December 7, 2017 Author Share Posted December 7, 2017 That AAR switch is looking better all the time . Took another stab at my IAC and learned a little more , but still not getting it. I think we need a session Richard. pretty sure it’s all settings in my firmware , but not getting settings right. Not enough idle at first start - though it does stay running and idle is steady(1100rpm) . Idle will pick up slightly as it warms , but that might be enrichment backing off a tad . Fully warm the IAC doesn’t close all the way so idle stays high(1200-1300). If I go into test mode (while running)and test homing position( set to close) , idle drops to exactly where I want it (850), and where engine normally idles at without IAC connected. So the valve is capable of closing , but doesn’t do that all the way when warm . If I stop test mode the IAC steps up 20 steps and the idle increases . I tried to ‘0’ out last step in warm up , but it didn’t seem to want to take it and always went plugged in 20? So all this babbling is just saying that I cannnoy get my settings right , but the hardware should be getting me there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madkaw Posted May 11, 2018 Author Share Posted May 11, 2018 Maybe- just maybe - I have this IAC in tune . I’m not ready to share yet since I have a few cold starts to do. This has been a ball buster and I should have been more methodical . The AAR valve was looking better all the time. Next week on vacation will be many test runs . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetsaz Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Glad you're working out the kinks, I have the same IAC setup going into mine when I get to installing MS3X.... should hopefully be able to learn from what you did and not suffer quite as much haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softopz Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Have you tried to reflash firmware? Then reload your tune. You would be suprised what I have seen that fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenman Posted May 11, 2018 Share Posted May 11, 2018 Bosch makes a PW controlled IAC that looks to be easier to set up than many stepper motors. Used on early 90's golfs. They run any where from $35 to $100 on E-Bay https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Idle-Air-Control-Valve-IAC-Speed-Stabilizer-VW-Volkswagen-Jetta-Golf-EuroVan-/351773015388 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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