Nismo280zEd Posted October 6, 2002 Share Posted October 6, 2002 OK... so maybe somebody can explain to me how when ever someobody on this site wants a HP engine you tell then to either... Get carbs.. or Get a turbo... Y can't they upgrade the EFI ? or is it because nobody knows how to do this? Kinda ticks me off seeing as i'm makn' around 230 at the rear w/ a 78 FI inline 6 w/ the stock ECU still Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David K Posted October 6, 2002 Share Posted October 6, 2002 ok bud if it ticks you off, why dont you share your findings and your tech experience/mods to help others. i for sure would like to know how to get 230 out of my n/a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 6, 2002 Share Posted October 6, 2002 If you have an article or your findings I'm sure the good folks here would post it and would appreciate your findings. Actually by telling someone to go turbo, they are also saying go EFI since most of the systems are EFI that are turbocharged. The reason most people get the answer to go to carbs is because they ask questions like: " I'm on a budget, which would be cheaper to put in a carb'ed 350 or a lt1 or ls1?" Or "I don't know much about cars, but want to make 300 hp on a sbc, what should I use" Or "I'm going carbs because I don't know much about fuel injection and I just feel more comfortable with carbs" Those sort of questions lend themselves to individuals who should probably do carbs (or maybe should leave the car as is and not even mess with it). EFI is totally dependable, and its potential is definitely superior to carbs, but at some point you can only add fuel and air so far before you need to crack open the engine and change displacement or a blower or change cams etc. I for one will definitely be going to a EFI Z next time around (maybe soon, I donno) just because I could run a later model Z and still meet smog and smiles per gallon and be in a car thats a bit more comfortable. Please share your setup and I'm sure others would find it interesting as well. Theres alot of activity really in just the last two years I've been on the site that shows that more and more people are embrassing fuel injection in the Z's all the time. No need to get ticked, just be patient the day is coming when carbs may not be around a whole lot longer for the average enthusist. It also has to do with the price coming down somewhat on EFI parts which will really help too. Good luck and thanks for your input. Regards, Lone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted October 6, 2002 Share Posted October 6, 2002 I want 230HP. At the wheels I'll be happy to get 200HP out of stock EFI on my car. I highly recommend EFI. But unless you get an expensive engine management, there are not much adjustment you can make to make it run good on stock EFI. IMO Mine has to be set rich in the mid range with an enrichment circuit and 3 bar of fuel pressure to keep up with fuel on topend. (I find that a most drivable) SU's a great carbs, it's hard to beat a good set of carbs with a antient analog EFI. Not an impossible I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David K Posted October 6, 2002 Share Posted October 6, 2002 hey who needs a turbo when you got 230 n/a horses? imagine the drivebility without having the boost kick in. instant power, no lag, perfect street car. please share your findings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted October 6, 2002 Share Posted October 6, 2002 I would like to hear about your FI stuff. I have SU's on my 2.8 NA engine right now, but have said all along I should have put fuel injection on it. As for carb's, believe it or not, a good set of side drafts come's mighty close, and you cannot touch the throttle response of individual venturies, or the flow potential. SU's are totally simple. SO how about sharing some info man. I would like to go to the FI and see what I come up with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted October 7, 2002 Share Posted October 7, 2002 Info please. I want fuel injection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David K Posted October 7, 2002 Share Posted October 7, 2002 bump we want the info..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLKMGK Posted October 7, 2002 Share Posted October 7, 2002 Better yet, let's see a dyno sheet since "around" 230HP could be just about anything since most people's butt dyno is pretty inaccurate. Turbos are usually mentioned because they make BIG power and once setup properly can make evenbigger power with little work... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleeperZ Posted October 7, 2002 Share Posted October 7, 2002 Haven't heard of any 230 hp N/A L28 Zs that are more "streetable" than an equivalent 230 hp L28ETs. I hear a high hp N/A can be a bear to drive (I do lack experience in that field however.) I have 260 hp to the wheels in my turbo, and it is a complete pussycat around town...hard to imagine an equivalently powered N/A being more streetable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted October 7, 2002 Share Posted October 7, 2002 I would bet I don't have 180 at the wheels in my 260 yet, and it is unhappy if you lug it below 2000 rpms in 4th or 5th. My turbo engine doesn't care where it is. Of course that could be the difference between fuel injection and su's. I just wonder if that was a joke. Kind of like the honda engine with eagle rods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_H Posted October 7, 2002 Share Posted October 7, 2002 Ok, I'm game. First some questions. To get "about" 230 at the wheels in ANY NA L6 setup is approaching a race type setup,so your post is somewhat misleading unless I am missing something. I am well aware of what a full bore race motor will put to the wheels when starting at 320 at the flywheel. I also know what a triple throttle body FI system will put out vs a triple carb system,(near equal hp, but vastly improved torque spread). So the first questions is what mods have you done to your engine? I would bet good money that to keep the "stock" ecu you have played with a lot of things. I would also bet you have a fairly large cam, over .500 lift and over 300 duration. I would also bet that the power is not spread as well as Dan's. Now those are all "bets" meaning I am guessing to an extent. Let me go on record as saying I personally prefer Fuel injection, as it has more potential. However, carbs are simpleton easy. Joe back-yard mechanic can work on SU's. Where the Datsun FI system requires a little more "knowledge" and "brains". So since it requires more knowledge, would you please share with us what you have done to get approx 270+ at the flywheel. You are approaching 100 hp/L if it is a 2.8L., which again you did not specify. If this seems somewhat confrontational,(besides that being my style to an extent), it is. You offered up no details of how you got "around" 230 to the wheels. Is this via chassis dyno? Is this via 1/4 mi times/mph? Is this Vericom/ G-tech or G-tech pro? And the most important facts left out is the actual setup of your motor including changes to what the ECU "sees",(way to many ""'s in this post...). To come in and say FI is better, and you got lots of hp w/o details is tanamount to me saying the stroker is superior to the non-stroker, but not saying why. There are just too many variables. And yes, I had a 260 SCCA race car,(honestly have no idea what class would let a 260 have a 280 FI motor) with FI and a big cam and I did try tuning it to an extent. Ran like dog crap. Mainly b/c I didn't buy it for the motor, I bought it for the Gleason rear end. Swapped that out and sold the car. -Bob Waiting for details... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_H Posted October 7, 2002 Share Posted October 7, 2002 Diving further...to steal Lockjaw's thoughts about eagle rods with no rod bearings.... Nissmo280zed posted earlier: Post about "wimpy" headers So if this was posted last week,(well, just over a week ago), I find it hard to correlate the two. If you have what is called a "wimpy" header,(totally subjective) from a Z guy and if you have 230 at the wheels, why are you changing your header? I'm going out on my limb, I say BS. I say this claim is BS and cannot be backed up. 230 hp with "stock" FI is neigh to impossible and you exagerated your claims to make the arguement sound better. If you can prove me wrong, by all means, please do. Let others laugh at my follies. -Bob on further edit: I would not be surprised at all if this were a G-tech hp reading. With an accurate input of weights, etc.. into my G-tech, I got nearly 300hp to the wheels with my setup. Which, oh by the way, put 178 to the wheels on a dynojet and runs mid 13's in the 1/4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted October 7, 2002 Share Posted October 7, 2002 In the past, high horsepower normally aspirated engines were tempermental, mainly because the fuel and ignition management systems were not sophisticated enough to manage high compression and high overlap, long duration cams. Modern fuel managment systems (Motec M48, TecIII, etc.) can make these engines very manageable and easy to live with - as long as you're willing to buy "good" fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David K Posted October 7, 2002 Share Posted October 7, 2002 Originally posted by Nismo280zEd: i'm makn' around 230 at the rear w/ a 78 FI inline 6 w/ the stock ECU still JohnC you mean we have to use a good engine management system for all this whopping 230hp out of our L series? Dang! And this entire time i was thinking it could all be done with the stock system at ease as the first post in this thread kinda points to. i will be going turbo now. all my hopes of a streetable 230hp n/a have been dashed. shame on you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yo2001 Posted October 7, 2002 Share Posted October 7, 2002 I got 230RWHP in my 280Z...in my dream Let me go hook up some funny gas in my car and we'll see a stock L6 puts out 230HP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob_H Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 Easy folks. Lets not all jump on the bashing bandwagon. That's my designated job, and I feel a little job insecurity right now! John was indirectly saying that high power FI setups on the stock FI are, as I said, neigh to impossible. I don't know if it is intentional or not that Nismo280zEd has not responded yet. -Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted October 8, 2002 Share Posted October 8, 2002 Bob don't worry about job security, it gives me a warm fuzzy feeling when I see you have gotten involved. I am really starting to think this is a joke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lockjaw Posted October 11, 2002 Share Posted October 11, 2002 Well this one died on the vine didn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted October 12, 2002 Share Posted October 12, 2002 My reference to the high end engine management systems was in relation to some pretty radical NA engines. The 3L in my 240Z starts after exactly 4 complete engine revolutions (programmed that way), idles all day cold or hot at 1,200 rpm, has excellent driveability, and would work fine as a commuter engine - except that is has no flywheel and needs 110 octane leaded fuel. It also has 13.6 to 1 compression and a pretty radical cam. Do I think a 230 hp NA L6 can be made to work woth the stock Bosch L-tronic fuel management system. Absolutely. Has anyone done it? I don't know. It would take a lot of research and you'll probably be swapping in some components from the BMW implementation of L-tronic. Come to think of it, I seem to remember someone modifying the VG30 engine managment system to work on the L6. Does this ring a bell for anyone here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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