Installing Bad Dog frame rails

[JoeK]

I finally got my rotisserie built and car up on it. Next on the list is installing my Bad Dog frame rails. Seems like there are mixed opinions on whether or not to remove the existing frame rails, some do and some don't. Now that my car is up, I can sight down the existing rails and notice maybe a 1/2" of crown on both sides. Of course the new frame rails are straight. I figure I can fashion a big a#$ clamp and pull the 2 together, but am guessing both will bend in equally and I'll still end up with a little crown. If I cut out the existing frame rails, the floor boards would bend down to the straight new rails much easier.

 

So, I guess I'm looking for your thoughts and advice. I'm also assuming I could cut out the frme rails with the car up on the rotisserie without adverse effects. Seems like there is plenty of structural strength with the floor and roof in place.

[JMortensen]

I drilled holes down the length of the SFC's then used self-tapping sheet metal screws to hold it all together while welding. I did remove the original rails too. I think my thread is still in the BSWC FAQ area. I reposted the pics once or twice, they should be in there near the end.

[gmac708]

I also removed the original frame rails. I also replaced the floors. See the link below for some pictures of what I did. You should be OK to just add the BDFR right over top of originals. I probably went overkill...I tend to do that.

 

http://forums.nicoclub.com/z-floor-pan-replacement-t430045.html

 

I think you are OK as far as not bending the structure when removing the floors and rails.

 

Gord

[Namor]

When I installed my BDFRs, I replaced the passenger side floor and frame rail because they were rusted (replaced with rail and floor from Zedd Findings) and then capped the stock driver's side and Zedd Findings passenger rail with the BDFR.

 

If the stock frame rails aren't rusted then I would leave them in place.

[JoeK]

Thanks for the advice so far. I think I'm going to go ahead and remove the existing frame rails. It'll be much easier to pull the floor down to the new frame rails without the old rails resisting me. and I won't have to worry about rust lurking in between the old rail and floor.

 

Jon, I read through your thread in the BSWC area. There was reference to putting oil in the frame rails. Is this for anti-rust or some other purpose I can't fathom? I plan to use copper weld through primer about 1/2" on either side of the weld areas, and regular epoxy primer the rest of the area.

 

Gord, I've read your post at Nicoclub before. Very nice write up. I'll have to find my Cleco set, I had forgotten about those.I was considering replacing my floors, but decided the rust was just surface. After I removed it all with a wire wheel, the floors feel solid everywhere. After the frame rails get installed, everything will get a coat of Eastwood rust converter, followed by Eastwood Rust Inhibitor, then LizardSkin.

[JMortensen]

Yes, oil is for rust control. There are some threads around on Krown Rust Treatment, which is popular in Canada. I'm essentially going that route, but DIY. Haven't done it yet because my paint isn't done. Once that's done, I'm going to oil all the rails and inside the rockers, etc.

[socorob]

Has anyone with the flat floor pans installed carpet yet? And what carpet did you use ?

[LLave]

I left my original frame rails, i had to hammer, pry, and sort of reshape them to fit nicely in the bad dogs. I was not particularly easy, but it wasn't HARD. Just took my time with it and occasionally got a bigger hammer. I had my car up on a rotisserie and did not feel comfortable cutting the rails off without bracing it up first, which i suppose I could have done. I used tek screws, the self drill and self tapping kind. My biggest piece of advice is BEFORE you weld, get everything clean, flat, clamped, screwed and fitted up as near perfect as you can. The fit-up will not improve after you weld, really. 

[JoeK]

At this point, I'm cutting off the frame rails. Drilling out do spot Wells in pretty darn easy, as long as you're patient with it. I went to Harbor Freight and bought 3 spot weld cutters because I read people go through them real fast. I'm still on the first wside of the first one, and have cut out a few hundred spot welds so far. Just don't go full speed. But I digress.

 

Removing the original rail makes installing the new rails much easier. The floors are easy to make as straight as the new rails. Using Cleco's to hold it all together. I got the driver side front rail fitted up real nice and am currently fighting with the rear rail, having to pad it a litte here and there. I just wish my welding skills were as good as my fitting skills.

[jpndave]

After the frame rails get installed, everything will get a coat of Eastwood rust converter, followed by Eastwood Rust Inhibitor, then LizardSkin.

JoeK, I am new to the forum here but have quite a bit of experience with projects and have had a 240 for nearly 30 yrs. I just brought the old girl in for a complete makeover. I would love to see/hear more details on the rotisserie you built and will follow this with interest as I am just heading into all the replacements due to years of rust along with every reinforcement I can make.

 

I did a frame off on a Jeep JK Unlimited LS3/6L80E project. I used POR15 (on any bare metal) followed by 2 coats of Lizard Skin SC and 2 more of the ceramic on each side of the tub coated with an industrial urethane for protection. It has worked very well. There are some tricks to the procedure which I happy to share if you would like. You can see the Jeep build here: http://www.rme4x4.com/showthread.php?77265-Jeep-JK-Unlimited-quot-Transformer-quot-6-2L-quot-LS3-quot-GM-build

 

Don't want to derail your thread.

 

Dave

Edited November 22, 2014 by Dave O

[JoeK]

That looks like quite the transformation Dave O. I'd be happy to hear about any tricks with the Lizard Skin products.

 

As far as my rotisserie build, I made mine out of mostly wood, as I'm a carpenter by trade and wood is just easier for me. There is a pretty good rotisserie build thread here http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/81766-welp-im-building-a-rotisserie-from-engine-stands-pics/?hl=rotisserie with a good amount of pics from a few different versions. I've been planning on throwing some quick pics and description of mine up on the same thread as well. I still need to build a counterweight system for mine still, since I didn't get the cars center balance right.

[jpndave]

Sorry for the delayed reply. Thanks JoeK, it's been a bit of a project.

 

Here goes for the POR15 to Lizard skin procedure. POR15 is brutal strong stuff and really hard once cured. It doesn't top coat well at all once cured. It also doesn't stick well to other paint, great on rusty metal (not flaky) and on properly prepared bare steel (blasted in my case). To coat the tub on that Jeep, I scuffed everything well that had factory paint. The rest needs to be timed out and done sequentially. Coat bare metal with POR15, a brush works fine for small spots, spray the larger areas. Let the POR15 flash off until tacky. Then do a light dust coat of the Lizard skin, let that flash then coat as per instructions with the Lizard skin. I did two coats of the sound reduction and two of the regular ceramic on both sides of the tub. So eight in all. After that cured out, I sprayed a PPG industrial urethane to protect the Lizard Skin to protect it as it isn't super durable. The Jeep is quiet for sound transmission through the tub. Exhaust note through the windows, not so much. It's still quieter than my wife's car with the hard top on and that's saying something with the 37" mud tires and large exhaust. Keep in mind that POR15 is moisture cured, if even a drop of sweat gets in the can and it will kick. The water based Lizard Skin accelerates the cure of the POR15 but by the time that goes on you are ready for it. The insides of the doors were also sprayed with the Lizard Skin. I plan to do inside the hard top but haven't gotten around to it yet. If I remember correctly I have 10 gallons in that Jeep, plus 4 more waiting to do inside the top. A Z would be a lot less. I don't know if I'll do the sound control on the Z, depends on how crazy I go on weight reduction. The SC is light and the ceramic is almost nothing for weight gain. Even wet, before sprayed they are light. You could probably spray the whole car underneath and inside for the weight of one stick on deadening panel. Definitely the way to go.

 

On the frame, POR15 over blasted steel followed by a dusting of the urethane and then full coats. The trick is to embed the dust coat in tacky POR15 before laying down the full coats. POR15 makes a bonding agent but I was too cheap to add that cost and weight to the rig. The procedure I just outlined work very well. Just don't stop until you are done.

 

I hope that all makes sense. Maybe I'll review this later and make modifications to the write up to clarify.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Dave O

[jpndave]

On my 240 I'll plan on at least 4 gallons, maybe more. I'll probably cave and do the SC along with the regular ceramic. I'm not building a track car, more pro-touring/G-machine. I'd like it to be capable of some track days and maybe some autocross. I still want A/C, a half decent sound system, power windows and locks in a nice interior.

 

If you do the SC, put it on first as it is a heavier denser product.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Dave O

[jpndave]

Here are a couple of photos from that thread that show the Lizard skin while being sprayed on and after being coated with the urethane.

 

Body tub upside down sprayed with Lizard Skin.

 

 

Looking up after urethane coat and installation. You can see the contrast in sheen/texture of the urethane when sprayed over the Lizard Skin as opposed to over the POR15, same paint. Don't mind the nasty looking transfer case during mock-up.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Dave O

[j.Mack]

Thanks for the info...once I get the body all straight I will por-15 and undercoat the bottom and all the jambs.

[rjracin240]

Not meaning to hijack your thread but do have a concern that is a topic of discussion when getting into frame rails:

 

when replacing the frame rails and floors should the vehicle be supported in order to not get any unintentional distorting of the shell when replacing these compontnents (frame rails and or floor)?

 

thanks for any advice.

[JoeK]

When I pulled the frame rails, the car was still very solid. I didn't have to replace the floors, but think if you cut them out the car will still hold much of its rigidity with the sides and tunnel all in place. That may depend on how apart the car is, but with the car stripped down there is very little weight.

[Tank]

Russ-

 

I replaced both rails and floors with my car on jack stands. Did one side at a time with the trans crossmember and rear LCA/diff crossmember in place. The car was pretty well stripped and still very solid. No issues at all.