michael wales Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) Ok so I've thinned out my car collection and put in its place a 280z parts car and an L28 project build. This is my first ever engine build so I'm looking for some guidance and help from the great knowledge base we have here. I'm going for a streetable 2.8 (around 200hp). Its not my daily just my toy so it doesnt need to be perfect or cost lots of $$$ but i want to do it right. I'll be upating this thread as I go. I already have triple webers (2 sets) a spanish set of 45s and some itialian 40s. 45s are on my current motor, a basically stock l26 with an E88 head, MSA headers and MSD ignition. new motor is a 77 L28 with with N42 head. seems stock other then the after market looking retaining caps on the valve springs. cam reads EP40 in the front H-30 in the middle and 01 in the rear if anyone knows what the signifies. First question, can the MSA header from my E88 head transfer over to the N42 and if so is it a "better" head? once i establish this I will have more questions as to further enhancements I should do during the rebuild. thanks for readingand feel free to chime in with any good lessons learned or tips you think might help along the way. The build is being done in the Norfolk, Va area and if you know any good local shops for the work that will need to be farmed out please let me know. pics to follow this initial post! Edited May 1, 2015 by michael wales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael wales Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 (edited) My Z New L28 Edited January 12, 2015 by michael wales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac_Man Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I believe both should be square port heads so the header will swap between them. It's not necessarily a "better" head, they're probably pretty comparable. Chamber size is nearly identical but the n42 has larger valves unless the e88 is from a 260z. Flat top pistons and a cam will help you get on your way to 200hp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael wales Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 I appreciate the response, I've gathered as much scouring the forums but it never hurts to get a second opinion. I think I'll move ahead with getting the N42 checked, see if it needs any work and get it cleaned up a bit. so next item up is should I ditch the stock cam and get an aftermarket one? if so what do you guys recommend that is readily available and best for my triple Weber setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 You can actually run that by a cam manufacturer like delta cams and they can give you their recommendation based on your induction. I highly suggest the "how to modify/how to build your nissan ohc engine" books, they cover a lot of the basic questions and have a lot of helpful suggestions in building your motor. E88 vs N42 not a huge difference if I recall. E31 have higher quench areas, P90 can have a little higher flow but suffer from low compression, but E88 vs N42 is not a huge difference. I want to say a late N42 might not have bronze valve seats, but If you want to hit 200hp, you are going to want to have someone work on your head some and they can swap out your seats then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pac_Man Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 IIRC, the early 280z (75-76) had the bronze seats and the later 280z (77-78) did not. I could be wrong about that though. However if my memory does serve me right, then the head from the late 280z is n47, not the n42. And I think they have diamond exhaust ports with emissions linings. Whether or not the linings have any negative effect on performance has been debated though I would be partial to thinking their effect is negligible. Other than the exhaust ports and valve seats though I believe the n47 is basically identical to the n42. Again, if memory serves me well you can use a square port header on a square, round, or diamond shaped exhaust port head with no issues. Of course at this point I think you would be better off time-wise and financially to just have your n42 checked out and worked on as needed and then have the seats replaced while you're at it as jester said. Definitely talk to a cam manufacturer about your goals and setup to help figure it out. Regrinds seem to be the best option as far as what you get for your money but I don't know when that is or isn't possible. While you've got the head off the car, I would suggest some porting/polishing. That seems to help a lot with making it easier to get power out of the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael wales Posted January 17, 2015 Author Share Posted January 17, 2015 Pac_Man/seattlejester , I really appreciate the inputs. I have the how to modify book around here somewhere and I'm sure I could stand to go through it again. I'm going to move ahead with the N42 and see if I can find a reputable shop in the Norfolk/Hampton roads area to do the work. This thread is as much for me to keep a log of the build as it is to get the communities inputs and hopefully inform me of anything I might of missed or could improve. There's a great deal of knowledge and expertise that I'm hoping will help me along the way with my first engine build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael wales Posted February 22, 2015 Author Share Posted February 22, 2015 So I'm thinking after some discussions and looking at what I want from car at trying out the Arizona Z 4bbl intake but instead of the normal 390 carb using MSD's atomic EFI. The EFI is touted to work from 100ci to 500ci be it N/A or boosted and seems like it might let me run a similar setup as 280zex while cutting out the need to worry with carbs and letting me move into this cars fuel system into technology from at least my lifetime. I'm not hoping for the cheapest, most advanced or best anything really; just something that WORKS and works to my liking. As a street car I don't see how this system will not meet my needs other than being a bit pricy, but I figure my two sets of triples will help cover the cost. Any thoughts? I've seen some tidbits from OZconnection who seems to be the closest to what I'm going for but I'm excited for it to get warm so I can start making progress. I think I'll start N/A as I get some turbo parts together and build my 2.8 motor into something more suited to boost and maybe try my 2.6 at stockish boost levels if I can get everything together turbo parts wise before I'm done with the 2.8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never2BeFinished Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Hey Michael, I thought id chime in on cams since I recently had Rebello Racing (in Antioch, CA) do a regrind on a stock 280z cam for me into their 63D cam. They did a great job, and offer a valvetrain setup consisting of reground cam, springs and lash pads for about $400, and I had them clean up my rocker arms too but i forgot the fee for that. I did send them a core cam though. I wouldnt recommend the 63D cam due to its longer duration and lift, but they have other 'streetable' options that would suit your needs. Compared to Schneider, I originally was going to spend $800+ on a cam, springs, retainers, rockers, lash pads and some lube. The reason i didnt go with Schneider was due to them not having lash pads at the moment, but im very happy with Rebello. Also, Ive looked into the Arizona Z car 4bbl intake setup and I feel it could be better... Ive read reviews from users that 1st and 6th cylinders dont receive enough fuel so those two run leaner. I cant speak from personal experience on it though, I went with triple webers for my setup! Haha. If I were in your situation and wanted EFI, I would rather get a 280z/ZX intake manifold and run supra injectors from a Pallnet or other aftermarket fuel rail, and have a different throttle body run by megasquirt. Theres obviously more to it, but I hope that gets the idea across because im falling asleep as I write this, lol. Megasquirt is quite the learning curve though, but I hope this helps you decide upgrades for your Z! Edited February 23, 2015 by Never2BeFinished Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewZed Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Fuel gets mixed at the carburetors, so no cylinder should run leaner or richer than another with a single carburetor. Might have more or less charge, but the fuel/air ratio will be the same. Multiport EFI, on the other hand, can run leaner or richer, since the air flow can vary but each cylinder gets the same quantity of fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munters Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 I just think logic... Long straw short straw... you suck on it with the same force. do you get the drink earlier or at the same time? (Of course there are a lot more factors to include but just this thought alone is enough for me. Im the one for one type ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted February 26, 2015 Share Posted February 26, 2015 Seems a bit convoluted to buy a carb manifold, then replace the carb with a TBI system. Why not just run an EFI intake manifold? Would save you quite a bit. If you want room to grow you can get megasquirt or another aftermarket ECU. I mean at 2300 for the TBI setup, and 400 I think for the manifold. That just seems like a lot of money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael wales Posted February 27, 2015 Author Share Posted February 27, 2015 If I decide to do any cam work ill look into Robello for sure thanks for the hands on info on their work. The TBI through the AZ intake boils down to the fact that Meqasquirt isn’t something I’m knowledgeable in or frankly interested in and the ease of the MSD EFI kit along with its great reviews intrigues me. I think the setup would look very clean and aesthetically I can’t say the same for the ZX setup and the webs of hoses it brings along. Lastly I can’t say that having something that will almost assuredly standout from the crowd doesn’t come into the equation either. Again I know it’s not the most economical or even best overall solution necessarily but it intrigues me and has me excited so I think I’m going to go with it. That being said I whole heartedly appreciate the inputs and advice, even if my not choosing to follow them leads you to think otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted February 27, 2015 Share Posted February 27, 2015 I mean I'm not here to dissuade you, but to address your points... Regardless of the system you buy, you will have to either learn to tune it or find a tuner. You can shave the intake manifold, not anything new For the money you are looking at, you could even get a custom intake manifold. Your last point is completely valid, because it's different and a conversation starter/preference that alone is good enough justification. Good luck sir, keep us informed with how it turns out, been curious about the setup. Personally I think the triple webber carbs is a really good look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael wales Posted February 28, 2015 Author Share Posted February 28, 2015 i really like the triples myself looks and performance wise i,ve just never gotten around to learning the finer points of them and i figured since i had two sets and im personally more intrigued by EFI why not let them pay for my swap. MSD claims the atomic kit is complety self learning once youve inputted the basics such as engine size, basic cam profiel, etc and will even adjust to boost later on, that and its flexibilty engine size and power wise was what really sold me on it. its said to be a pretty painless experience and most of those comments were found on various discussion boards. ill be sure to keep you guys updated, hopefully this will give another option to those of us who want another way forward with a felxible EFI soultion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted March 2, 2015 Share Posted March 2, 2015 The Check is in The Mail. This will only hurt for a little while. I'll only put the head of it in. It's totally self adjusting, just bolt it on and drive! see a pattern here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael wales Posted March 2, 2015 Author Share Posted March 2, 2015 haha i really dont, the last part im assuming is in reference to the MSD kit being totally self adjusting, both fuel and spark but after reading the HOTROD, Car craft, and Jeep Offraod tests on both N/A and Boosted V8s and and inline sixes im guessing that it does what it says, much as the comments on amazon and other retail outlets state it does, but can you calirfiy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 You hit the nail on the head, it is in reference to the self adjusting. I know hotrod has tested and left generally good marks, but they too had to call in for reinforcements and help to help certain situations. You will have to learn it at some point, or hire/employ/enslave/befriend someone who does know it. It is not just about the fact you should know what is in your car and be familiar with it in case of problems, but it is in that you should know the theory behind it to make the decision on how safe or how risky you want to push it. Tuner studio offers an auto tuning option on their software for the megasquirt as well, but you still need to play around with other settings like cold start, idle, etc etc. Even with the analyze live running it didn't catch certain problems I had and left some quirks here and there. It runs a very simple algorithm, up to the user to take advantage of that. The point of it is that if you are purchasing it to cut the need for a tuner out of the situation, that's probably not a good idea. The point behind it is that it is a stepping stool to make you into a basic tuner. You run the tuning program, tweak here and there, call support and ask questions, get suggestions implement, and in that front you end up learning. Believe their pitch that you bolt it on and you never have to touch it again maybe a bit on the naive side, granted it seems like they are trying to make it easier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted March 3, 2015 Share Posted March 3, 2015 "The point of it is that if you are purchasing it to cut the need for a tuner out of the situation, that's probably not a good idea." BOSS EFI out of Corona CA was the original manufacturer of these systems, and they CAN get pretty close... I was buffaloed by 'rah rah' articles in Enthusiast Magazines a couple of times where they say one thing and reality is something totally different. My Megasquirt fired right up and I could drive it around the block using the B&G 383 Chevy Fueling map on my L6. It goes to your definition of "works"... Every one of them has a protocol to save the file after your 'self-tuning drive' and you will have to learn that. Don't not prepare on basic knowledge based on a salesman's claim it will do it all for you... Never. Ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael wales Posted March 4, 2015 Author Share Posted March 4, 2015 Well the MSD unit is on its way, I decided to pony up for the return kit as well to avoid some of the issues that seem to be present even with the pulse width modulated fuel pump. Apparently under certain conditions (hot summer days and the car is in Virginia..) the system is unable to compensate for the lack of cooling that the circulating fuel would provide vice a dead head system. All I am waiting for is for Arizona Z cars to get some more intakes in stock (they are saying early next week) or for one to come up for sale sans carb and a free weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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