texis30O Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 That would kill the value down to what someone is willing to pay, cause it could "legally" only be a off-road car.... (track car without registration possibilities) I would buy it for the right price.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLATA Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 This Z is in the twilight zone, can it be registered and titled as a rebuilt car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casper9182 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 You should take a picture of the vin on firewall and post it I'm super curious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 I'd get in touch with the PO and hope that he still has the original vin for that 280 recorded and go to the DMV and get it straightened out right away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsommer Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 OK here's my .02 It's a Hybridz taken to the extreme? However, if you are going to keep the car to yourself, register it as a 19XX early car with the early VIN. IF you plan on selling it....get the VIN on the firewall professionally installed and explain that it is made out of 2 cars, the main car being a 240Z, you have a title that's the main part. I doubt the DMV is going to pull up carpet, check the radiator mount, on and on to verify the car but they may check the VIN on the dash and firewall, they did this on my FFR Cobra when I was regisering it as I purchased it from out of state. Just be up front and never try to pass the car off as something it is not. If the potential buyer raises a stink, just say sorry and move on. OR build it into a track car as sugguested. You have the title and dash do you have the door jamb tag and engine bay tag (not the firewall tag)? (hope I don't get flamed....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rturbo 930 Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I think someone did buy this car, and the seller apparently forgot to mention the VIN swap. I sent him a PM with a link to this thread last night, no reply... This is his thread: http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/123536-need-advice-on-differentiating-70-from-77or-8/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Duncan Posted September 24, 2015 Share Posted September 24, 2015 I think as long as neither car is stolen you are ok. You might not be technically legally ok, but if you are keeping the car anyway it's not really going to matter as long as you can get it registered. Assuming the firewall vin and all the plate vins match the DMV is not going to know what a 280z floorboard or rad support look like. And if the entire firewall of the early Z was used then it's just another clip job, at worst a salvage title if that even applies to something this old. I know historic cars have been "restored" starting with not much more than a Vin plate, it's not uncommon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
festusclamrod Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 well guys sure wish I would have looked on this site before I bought this car. He took none of your valuable advice and looked me in the eye and sold it to me as a 1970 240z. As soon as I figured out what was up I contacted him and offered him what I thought to be a sweetheart deal. I asked for half my money back whivh is about what I would have paid for a 77 in his condition. and that's not even factoring in the horrendous title situation. In all honesty had I been aware of that I would have been another 1000 to 1500 lighter on it. but I didn't even ask for that compensation, just half my money back. He won't return my calls or texts now and had the audacity to have a lawyer call me today which just pissed me off to no end. I was just planning on taking him to small claims court originally but now after the call from the lawyer I'm thinking of bringing in the swift hand if the dot. Didn't really want it to go down this way, because I will probably lose the car and my money if my luck holds true. But he has me so mad at this point my left eye won't stop twitching. so I'm seriously considering this option. What do you guys think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rturbo 930 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) Tough call. Are you planning on keeping this car for a long time? It looks like a good, solid shell with very little rust, it's just not a 240z. Really shitty of him to lie to you like that, but I'm not surprised. Wasn't getting a great vibe from him in this thread, seemed like he kept flip flopping. First he wanted to sell, then it was gonna be his sons car... not sure what's up with that. But if you like the car, you might consider just going with it. Regarding the title, as far as I know, in some situations you can have a new state issued title, though I'm not sure exactly how that works, or if it would apply to your situation. And, of course, might want to keep quiet about it unless you don't mind losing the car. Again, it's a good car (from the pics anyway), just not what it's advertised as. I can definitely understand wanting to stick it to this guy though... but you gotta pick your battles. Losing the car, and the money to pay the lawyer... that's not a win for you. Edited September 25, 2015 by rturbo 930 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
festusclamrod Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 yeah turbo I get bored with cars pretty easily and a 240z was one of the few cars I have never owned at one time or another. But anyway plan was to finish it over winter enjoy for spring and then sell it. Looks like my plans may be changing though. I will keep you guys posted on the outcome though and get you some pics posted when it's done if it works out that way but for now cancelled the transmission, carpet and headliner order. I didn't know much about these cars when I bought it, but I have sure gotten s crash course in the z world for whatever that's worth. In my opinion the biggest dead give away I this car is the rear shock towers being beefier and slightly different shaped. And the fact that I have had the doors confirmed as 77 78 doors which will not fit on 70 240 like many other parts will. only thing that still perplexed me is that it has the bbox four speed which is wrong should have been an abox in 70. but that's not what's weird anyone could have put a bbox in at anytime, what's weird is I thought the tunnel would have had to be slightly modified to shift with out hitting tunnel. but I could have got bad info there or just misunderstood and they meant that shifter would hit console because that is the case shifter dies hit console so I will have to move it forward at bit. But it won't be to awful noticeable if I do it nicely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dsommer Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Lawyer? Throw that bast@rd under the bus with the police, DMV etc. Just show them the fire wall repair he did, that'll get em going!!! Screw him as he screwed you. He'll do this again I promise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Duncan Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Check out what would happen legally, and if it benefits you then go that way. But if you are just going to lose the car and your money (if it's stolen) then it's a no brainer to just keep it. It still has value as a 280Z and you could build it to look like a 240Z and sell it as long as you disclose what it really is. It's really the same car from a basic generational standpoint and it's easy to make it look like a 240 from the exterior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 I would call the police, and get a lawyer. The gent was aware the car was not a 1970Z, he fraudulently misrepresented it, and that can be any number of things. I don't know what this supposed "Lawyer" told you...but he is likely only getting a BS story of the guy telling him what he wants him to know. No two ways about it, this guy sold a VIN-Swapped Car. He was told what was up, then misrepresented it. He needs to fry. If you lose the car, you get the judgement for the $$$, and make his life purgatory. Or hell. Personally, I would make him live in hell over this. Then go out and get another car with your recovered money. Kill the car. Crush it. Make it go away. People without ethics should be flayed... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 Figures, he was an F.I.B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 Oh yeah, and point them in the direction of this thread for sure... He logged on with photos...if I were you I'd screen shot and save these photos of the thread for use as evidence of his duplicity. It was clearly not a 240Z, and VIN Swapping is a federal offense, compounded by him selling across state lines... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Duncan Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 depends if the guy has money or not. Sue a skunk and all you get is smell. They'll confiscate the car for evidence and depending on it's status and the state laws you might not get it back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poundz9oh9 Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 I would call the police, and get a lawyer. The gent was aware the car was not a 1970Z, he fraudulently misrepresented it, and that can be any number of things. I don't know what this supposed "Lawyer" told you...but he is likely only getting a BS story of the guy telling him what he wants him to know. No two ways about it, this guy sold a VIN-Swapped Car. He was told what was up, then misrepresented it. He needs to fry. If you lose the car, you get the judgement for the $$$, and make his life purgatory. Or hell. Personally, I would make him live in hell over this. Then go out and get another car with your recovered money. Kill the car. Crush it. Make it go away. People without ethics should be flayed... Truer words have never been spoken(so to speak) .... I doubt it was even a lawyer that called, probably somebody posing as one. This guy knew exactly what he was doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 depends if the guy has money or not. Sue a skunk and all you get is smell. They'll confiscate the car for evidence and depending on it's status and the state laws you might not get it back. Depends what he paid, and what your states small claims limit is. Injunctive relief even at $5,000 as a discount is a nice round number to take from small claims court. You are under $250 total expenses and then have a court order with which you can file for all sorts of things. Like turning it to a credit bureau for collection. Or making a personal call with the sheriff and confiscating his things for payment in kind. This is out-and-out FRAUD. The guy KNEW what was up, then knowingly MISREPRESENTED IT IN SALES. That's criminal. So you lose the car? SO WHAT? You have a car now that you can not sell. It's an illegal reVIN. It's one thing to do this crap in your back yard for your own purposes. Doing it for profit crosses an ethical barrier and needs severe punishment be dealt to discourage it. How would YOU like to find this out about YOUR car? This guy needs to FRY. A significant Small Claims judgement can be a helluva way to make a guys life miserable. If nothing else, that's the least of what this bastard should undergo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Hamilton Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Cutting out and welding in the VIN in the firewall in most states is a felony. And it's a felony on the Federal level as well. http://www.justice.gov/usam/criminal-resource-manual-1364-altering-or-removing-motor-vehicle-identification-numbers Most DMV's across the US take this type of fraud VERY seriously. Hire a lawyer, document what happened and you should at the very least have enough leverage with this guy to get your money back. If you do the legwork of the case yourself then the cost of hiring an Attorney is lessened) you can hire the Attorney to make contact with the seller and give him the option of giving you your money back or you giving the case over to the Local District Attorney and State DMV. The threat of being convicted of a felony should be enough to get your money back. Or do like Tony D suggests and sue him in small claims. I would try the former and then the latter as the threat of a criminal conviction seems to move most people off their asses a little quicker than civil action does. Just do something though and don't let this jerk slide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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