Help With Buying a 240Z

seattlejester · January 5, 2016

Thanks for that Miles, I think I had my head up my ass quite a ways kind of built up to a really stupid climax, just want to reiterate, not pointed at you OP.

Just pushed some of my underlying buttons unintentionally, I think the advice is still there though, so I'll keep the post up and put on my dunce cap for the day.

calZ · January 5, 2016

I understood what you meant and appreciate the help. Rather it be assumed I know nothing and get good advice than assume I know everything and end up with a junker. I was just trying to get my point across that I wasn't wandering in the dark. As you said, probably motivated by pride.

seattlejester · January 5, 2016

Seems like you have a level head, thanks for not taking it to personally.

Lots of good people and help available, and if you need to reach out more, take a look and then come back with more information and lots of pictures and others can chime in.

On reflection, I think I saw a little bit of my old self in this situation, wished someone would have come and poked some holes in my chassis and told me to hold on or wait. I thought I knew what I was doing and it turned out ok in the end, but it took a while to get there.

Pharaohabq · January 6, 2016

Really a car is worth what someone will pay for it. is people are buying $3000 cars for $6000 then they're worth 6K. to them... It's those who are lucky that can find decent cars for $3000 or less, My 280Z was only $600, no real rust, parked for 20+ years. My 240Z also parked for 20 years is a rust bucket, and I paid $900. It's going to need a lot more work, but it's worth it to me. Bodywork, yes it scares me to weld on panels, but, that's why I have the car, to learn and do it myself. otherwise I'd have paid for one that didn't need the work and was more expensive. If you're afraid to take a short flight to go see a car you're going to drop thousands on, then you're better off paying a lot more for something local. Read read read, and DL the FSM on these cars. You'll need it for the swap. Those links at the start of this thread should be 90% of what you need to know. in the end though, this is your CAR and your WALLET, so the choice is yours. Though, it's a shame to chop up a pristine example for a engine swap, but again your car, we'll advise you however you want. you should read a lot more about the swap and what options you have before putting one in. that's not a real common swap, but it's been done, so try to find the thread on here. check if McKinney already has a kit for it too.

Phar

calZ · January 30, 2016

So I'm back. The owner of the original car I was looking at pulled the ad the day before I went to look at it. He told me he was tired of showing it and getting lowballed. I figured that's all I was going to do, so I didn't bother asking him to show it to me.

I went to look at a different car today. 1972 240Z with an N42 and a 5-speed out of a 1979 280ZX. I crawled all over underneath the car and checked everything out. Frame rails had a bit of surface rust, but were solid. Had a few kinks from I assume jacks and bottoming out, but were pretty good shape. There is a dent in the hood where he bumped into something at low speed. Could fix or replace the hood. Wheel wells were really good, and I couldn't see any rust on the fenders or doglegs. The paint on it is not great, but I don't think it's recent enough to be hiding any sanded down rust. The one single spot of rust bubbles I found was an area the size of about two quarters next to each other on the lower deck where the hatch seals. I was able to get one thumb on each side of the metal and pushed very hard, but the metal didn't flex. I assume that means it's decent enough to sand off and seal.

The engine starts right up when the key is touched. Almost unbelievable how well it ran. However, the transmission whines a bit and the owner admitted that it probably needs to be replaced in the near future. Bit of oil and gear lube on the engine and transmission. Hard to find leak-free 44-year-old cars though I suppose. The throttle is a bit sticky, but that's just a cleaning issue. The brakes are disc front and rear, but I'm not sure whoever put them on did the best job. They're definitely not great. Do 240s tend to have heavier brakes? This was the first one I've driven.

The interior is not the best. Dash has a few cracks. Gauges look great. I think they're replacements. It has new carpet, new sound deadening, and the floor was cleaned and coated with POR15 because rust was forming at the firewall. Door cards are decent, but I would probably try to replace them. One bad part is that the Door handles don't work very well, so he installed remote solenoids with the intention of shaving the door handles. The doors popping open are pretty cool, but a dead battery would make things rough. The great thing about the interior is that he has two FIA-rated seats installed, which are ~$750 new. They're both in good shape, and I'm pretty confident I could sell them for $4-500 each to some of the other people in our racing organization. That would cut the cost of the car down a bit.

So to recap the long post:

Engine: fantastic running 2.8L

Transmission: 5-spd swapped, but should be replaced

Brakes: disc conversion done, but does not stop very well

Body: Very little rust. Seems to be VERY solid and straight other than a tweaked hood

Interior: Needs quite a bit of work, but has ~$1k worth of seats to help recoup costs

So after reading all that, does this sound like an alright deal at $4000? I would haggle with him a bit if I can, but not banking on a huge discount.

88dangerdan · January 30, 2016

That sounds fair for what you have described.

calZ · February 1, 2016

Thanks dan. Anyone else have an opinion?

NewZed · February 1, 2016

Try to imagine the car at your place with you working to make it what you want. What you're describing and what you said your plans are have some mismatches. You said that you're planning an engine swap but say that this latest car has a fantastic running L28. Who cares about the L28 if you're planning a swap? It doesn't matter much. Or maybe it does but you haven't realized it.

Figure out what you like doing and what you hate doing and get the car with few hates and lots of likes. I bought my car non-running because the body was straight and I hate body work. But I like the mechanical stuff. You could get a great "deal", in other people's opinion, but hate working on it.

Also, distinguish between hard stuff and easy stuff. Brakes are pretty easy.

calZ · February 1, 2016

After driving the car, I've rethought the swap part of it. The car was much quicker on the street than I expected, so the engine is probably good for now at least.

I guess I wasn't looking for advice on whether it fit my needs or not, since I'm the one that ultimately has to buy the car and do the work. I'm new to Z cars, so as I gain experience with it my plans might change quite a bit. I was just wondering if a car matching that description was fair market value at $4000. Thanks for your help.

Miles · February 1, 2016

Looks like you have it sorted out.

Hope the following will be helpful:

If doing a V8 swap buy the Jags that Run (JTR) book and read it at least ten times. Book is useful for any engine swap.
Buy books/manuals for the engine and transmission you want to use.
Download a Factory Service Manual (FSM) and buy a Haynes repair manual for your specific car.
Download electrical schematics for your car. PDFs are easier to read than those found in books. Some are in color.
Buy the book How to Restore Your Datsun Z Car by Wick Humble. It will save you hours of searching for "how to" info.
Focus on searching Hybridz as 99% of questions have already been addressed.
Make a detailed plan with parts list including cost before starting a project. Plan every system of the car.
Start bookmarking Z car parts suppliers - there are many!
Remember these are 40 year old cars and will need restoration to be safe and drivable.
Join ClassicZCars.com website and search there as well.
Become well informed about modifications before asking questions. People will be more inclined to answer informed questions.
Have some money. I stopped counting after $12k.
Read the new member FAQs.
The engine swap is the easy part. It is understanding the details like brake fittings, adapters, drive shaft angles, brake system, automotive electronics, wheels, suspension and etc. that makes or breaks a build project.
Recommend that you buy a running Z car and drive it stock for a awhile. Do basic maintenance brakes, suspension, electrical etc. so you have a ready to drive platform when you finish the engine swap.