Bolt-on struts?

[duragg]

I've been running Koni 8611 double adjustables in sectioned struts (per the Sticky... standard process).

But I would love to get to the stage of having something like MCS Remote double adjustables.

 

I've been trying to see if this has been done before, sure it has but cannot find.

 

I can see cutting the strut tube down to about a 2" stub. 

Then machining and welding a sleeve down into that stub (to assist getting the position and angle correct).

Then transitioning to a beefy steel stub to which basically standard type fancy shocks could be bolted.

 

Keeps the strut arrangement and gets a better shock.

 

Its easy to consider other suspension setups, Upper and lower arms,  which lends itself to different hubs and different wheel / bolt patterns that really escalate the total cost.

Babbling maybe.... Anybody have pics of other strut adaptations?
 

 

 

[ryant67]

At the risk of being unhelpful, I remember the Late John Coffey (jeez I miss that guy...) frequently referring to Erik Messley as his suspension guru.  A little googling came up with Erik's email address as:  emiracing@mindspring.com

I'd probably shoot him an email and see what he thinks.  He had John competing with Dodge Vipers and winning, so it should certainly be a good place to start!

[jthom5147]

Something like:

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/119399-240z-camber-adj-rear-coilover-adapters-bolt-on/

http://responsetype.com/shop/nissan/fairlady-z31/s13-coilover-adapters/

 

 

Some people have used 240sx spindles up front which uses bolt-in struts:

http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversions-hybrids/1525949-project-steezee-1973-datsun-240z-lq9-v8-build.html

 

 

Others have done thread-in which might be a step towards bolt-in like you're asking for:

http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/88589-anyone-interested-in-coilover-conversion-kits/page-2

[JMortensen]

Tom, there is a lot of tech on this, just not here. I was looking into it too, and found the nissanroadracing.com forum to be full of S14/S15 solutions to this problem, but we can adapt to our situation too. 

IIRC John Coffey set up the universal 46mm struts for the rally car that went to Asia. Those are non adjustable, but can be modified to be adjustable. If you want to keep with an insert type of thing, you can modify the 3000GT 36mm Bilsteins to a 280 strut housing and then add the adjustability to it as well.

 

The problem with the bolt on solutions is that all of them are cheap Chinese shocks (most aren't struts, which are designed for side loads). There is the possibility of getting the cheap ones, gutting them, and then putting quality pistons and adjusters on them, but seems like most of the people at NRR.com start with Bilstein and mod those.

 

The other option is to do like Coffey did and order up a custom set of Penske struts and use the adapters that guys are using for the Chinese shocks.

 

Here are a couple examples, there are more over there:

 

http://nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=3344&highlight=bilstein+adjustable+struts

 

http://nissanroadracing.com/showthread.php?t=5266&highlight=3Kgt+strut

[duragg]

I'm figuring this will be a $6k+ set of shocks.  The real deal... so not doing this part on the cheap.

I just sent my Koni 8611s back for a dyno inspection and they got a clean bill of health. 

 

All the M3 guys I race with are running MCS remote resivoir double adjustables.  They have triple adjustables but they are a lot more.

I've been working with MCS and they can build a custom solution in the $6k range (plus or minus, likely plus tho).

 

Not a bad price really...

[JMortensen]

I know John's Penskes were more like $8K, but I do recall a couple years back they were making those kits more available. MCS might be great, but I'm not familiar. If you're just going to lay down cash you might check out Penske as another alternative.

[heavy85]

Any update on what you went with?

[260DET]

So you Murricans know about our MCS secret suspension advantage  With the Pacific Peso, err Aussie $, weak against the US they should be good buying right now, Murray does several grade versions for the S30, I've been running his top version for years. No rear ARB, heavy front bar and springs, it's on a knife edge and stays there courtesy MCA.

[heavy85]

So you Murricans know about our MCS secret suspension advantage With the Pacific Peso, err Aussie $, weak against the US they should be good buying right now, Murray does several grade versions for the S30, I've been running his top version for years. No rear ARB, heavy front bar and springs, it's on a knife edge and stays there courtesy MCA.

Im confused unless there are two MCS'

 

http://motioncontrolsuspension.com/about/

 

US based and they don't list and Z options?

[ryant67]

Reckon 260DET had a brain fart there and confused MCS with MCA.  

MCA is an Aussie company that most of the folks down there use for their coilover conversions.  Supposed to be pretty decent, although I wouldn't know if their top tier stuff compares with Penskes or not.  

Site:  https://mcasuspension.com/

[heavy85]

Reckon 260DET had a brain fart there and confused MCS with MCA.

 

MCA is an Aussie company that most of the folks down there use for their coilover conversions. Supposed to be pretty decent, although I wouldn't know if their top tier stuff compares with Penskes or not.

 

Site: https://mcasuspension.com/

That makes sense - they even have picture of their S30 setup on their website.

 

https://mcasuspension.com/images/gold-img-6.jpg

[franky240z]

Have you looked at intrax?

 

http://en.intraxracing.nl/merken/datsun/

 

https://www.va-motorsport.com/

 

Very well tested suspension, lots of options. 

[franky240z]

Pics....






Nice long springs, full stroke dampers, all just nicely done, properly matched, same spec dampers on this range as their top end range. 

[heavy85]

You guys in Europe get all the fun.  There just arent people prepping old cars for rally, serious hillclimb, etc so this higher end stuff just doesn't exist in the US unless you make it yourself. 

[franky240z]

You guys in Europe get all the fun.  There just arent people prepping old cars for rally, serious hillclimb, etc so this higher end stuff just doesn't exist in the US unless you make it yourself. 

 

I don't think we do, the support for these cars seems to be just growing now, VA-motorsport have been plugging away for a good few years with these cars.

 

Saying that, I did look to the USA for suspension, it just didn't seem to exist as a developed setup.  I'm hoping good suspension and brake will be worth a good number of bhp on our UK bumpy roads

[tube80z]

My only advice is to see what level of support you can get.  A really good up front price doesn't mean a lot if they need to be shipped vast distances for rebuild or if there are no dealers close by with parts.  A long time ago I bought the ground control double adjustable inserts.  Loved them at first but after sitting over a winter they lost all their oil (store on the shelf) and GC wanted $100 a pop to service them.  This time they don't seem to work as well (no dyno charts ever supplied) and they lost oil again the next year.  Now they want $250 a piece to service and that was some time ago.  I gave them to a friend and he said they now want more than I paid for them to be serviced.

 

While it may cost more I'd want to work with a dealer that supplied dynos and rebuilds that weren't too costly as those add up over time.  And a company that has a good inventory of parts that might even have race track support.  That probably means different companies in different parts of the world.  

 

For a Z car that's used in a race environment you want to ideally use an inverted strut.  This puts a stiffer part under bending load than the smaller shock shaft.  And for the higher quality parts you should be looking at linear bearings or roller bearing top hats.  These will reduce stiction when the suspension is bound under corner or braking load.  Even things like the type of seal used on the shaft can make a difference.  The one true standard across all these is that anything that ticks all those boxes is usually expensive.  My personal feeling is that a S30 Z car isn't stiff enough to need anything more than a double adjustable shock.  

 

Hope this helps,

Cary

[franky240z]

My only advice is to see what level of support you can get.  A really good up front price doesn't mean a lot if they need to be shipped vast distances for rebuild or if there are no dealers close by with parts.  A long time ago I bought the ground control double adjustable inserts.  Loved them at first but after sitting over a winter they lost all their oil (store on the shelf) and GC wanted $100 a pop to service them.  This time they don't seem to work as well (no dyno charts ever supplied) and they lost oil again the next year.  Now they want $250 a piece to service and that was some time ago.  I gave them to a friend and he said they now want more than I paid for them to be serviced.

 

While it may cost more I'd want to work with a dealer that supplied dynos and rebuilds that weren't too costly as those add up over time.  And a company that has a good inventory of parts that might even have race track support.  That probably means different companies in different parts of the world.  

 

For a Z car that's used in a race environment you want to ideally use an inverted strut.  This puts a stiffer part under bending load than the smaller shock shaft.  And for the higher quality parts you should be looking at linear bearings or roller bearing top hats.  These will reduce stiction when the suspension is bound under corner or braking load.  Even things like the type of seal used on the shaft can make a difference.  The one true standard across all these is that anything that ticks all those boxes is usually expensive.  My personal feeling is that a S30 Z car isn't stiff enough to need anything more than a double adjustable shock.  

 

Hope this helps,

Cary

 

Everything you say covers the intrax setup and support from VA-motorsport.

[Evandavis73]

I've got my eye on those MCA's. Just emailed them, I'll let you guys know on the price.

[JavelinZ]

TJ, Have you considered talking to Stance about triple adjustables?  Bill Washburn just blew the doors off of a bunch of people in the RS Maxi at Climb to the Clouds. He is running Stance custom valved to his specs. He used to post on Nissan Road Racing forums but, I'm not sure he frequents there much anymore.  I'm sure he could shed some light on what you are looking for. The coilovers and camber plates I designed up for my Z use the stance cartridges.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pykb-hHPHpA

 

I follow him on instagram so that is how I would get a hold of him. You could probably get to him through youtube as well I would imagine.

Edited July 29, 2017 by JavelinZ