Swapped in a 363... lol too much power??!

[thedarkie]

I've had my 260Z for about 6 years now with a mild Ford 302 that was getting tired and boring, so when an interesting engine came up for sale I impulsively jumped on the deal. Its still Ford Windsor based and I figured would be a relatively straight forward drop-in, but small differences tend to claw away at the bank account QUICK! The heads had taller and bigger exhaust ports, so custom headers had to be made... the engine was lacking a mechanical pump, so the fuel system had to be upgraded, the old distributor and ignition was incompatible with the new roller cam so MSD took a bunch of my money. The $1000 oil pan it came with wouldn't clear my crossmember, etc etc. 

 

updated pics from Apr 17

 

Anyways, I just fired it up for the first time 2 days ago and took it out for a shakedown around the neighbourhood today....... and its already painfully evident that this car, in its current configuration, is stupidly overpowered. I've always loved how aftermarket flares and wide wheels look, but my car is too clean to go under the knife so now I'm basically shopping for as wide a tire as I can fit on these wheels, under the stock fenders. I might luck out with a 225 or 235 in the rear, so it'll need to be something very sticky. Slicks?!?! It never sees rain, hmmmmmmmmm!

 

 

New engine is in. Its an SBF based Dart block with 4 bolt mains, Diamond pistons, H beam rods, TFS-R heads, and some other goodies. I decided to keep it carb'd despite the new engine coming with a lot of EFI parts - maybe I'm stupid, but I just think it helps maintain some "old school" character. 4 mpg? Who cares

 

 

 

 

If you're having headers made, might as well give the fabricator some creative freedom and see what comes out! He absolutely killed it. Its such a shame its basically almost entirely hidden under the car. Im gonna have to buy some mirrors or cut a hole in my floor so I could look at them while driving. 1-7/8 primaries 4-2-1 into a single 3.5" back section

 

 

I guess its still a muffler? More like a Coke can.. added just for good measure, in case the system was too loud. It sounds amazing.. not a muscle-car 'hollow' rumble, but kind of an exotic bass feel to it. Very happy with how it turned it, which was essentially a guess. 

Edited April 19, 2017 by thedarkie

[rturbo 930]

What suspension do you have? With coil overs and rolled fender lips, you should be able to squeeze a 275 under the stock fenders in the rear. You'll need to go to a 17" or 18" wheel though. How much power does it make? Some chassis reinforcement might be needed, although your subframe connectors will help with that.

 

Those headers look pretty wild. I think we need a sound clip.

[seattlejester]

^Seconded on the sound clip. I appreciate the work involved in those headers as well. Made sure to give himself enough room to weld all the way around or made them all equal length. Depending on how attentive he was and which cylinders he matched before merging it could give a more flat plane sound then the traditional cross plane.

[Chickenman]

Lot of guys in the PNW are running DOT- R compound tires on the street. Yokohama 048 or 050's are very popular. These are very lightweight cars with some pretty good power to weight ratios. Turbo guys are pushing 250 to 275 RWHP in 2,000 lb cars.

 

BFG rivals are also a very sticky tire and come in lots of sizes. Looks like you're running some sort of 3 season tire now? DOT -R compounds will make an amazing difference. Some of the DOT tires are " Cheater " sizes. So a 225 is more like a 235 or 245 in actual width.

 

BTW, Toyo R1R's are really sticky and really wide for their stated size. The 245/40x17 should handle your Power without having to cut the sheet-metal. They have a lot of sizes in this tire. It's often overlooked 

 

Edit:  What size rims do you have now? 

Edited April 6, 2017 by Chickenman

[Chickenman]

This will solve the problem. But... not without a bit of cutting. Nice though. 

 

https://www.ztrix.com/fender-kits/280yz/

 

https://www.ztrix.com/280yz-kits/madlangbayan-280yz.html

Edited April 6, 2017 by Chickenman

[ryant67]

I just bought a set of 225/50r15 Toyo R888R's, which is the new version of the old R888.  They are supposed to be better in the wet, and are still 100 treadwear.  Should be plenty sticky, and still reasonably practical for the street - at least as practical as r-comps can be anyway.  

If you are in the Toronto area, I found these guys unbeatable on price:  http://www.greenleaftire.ca/track-and-competition-pricing.html

Your car looks great by the way, wow!!!

[thedarkie]

What suspension do you have? With coil overs and rolled fender lips, you should be able to squeeze a 275 under the stock fenders in the rear. You'll need to go to a 17" or 18" wheel though. How much power does it make? Some chassis reinforcement might be needed, although your subframe connectors will help with that.

 

Those headers look pretty wild. I think we need a sound clip.

 

The suspension is from AZCar, their tubular arms and coil over setup. I think you're waaaaay optimistic about how much meat I can fit in the back, 275s seem out of the question. I really like my fitment right now so I'll try to measure how much more space I have to the spring. I'm guessing a 245 might be about max?? I wanna stick with 16s also. As for power - I hate to guess, but similar builds are easily 500hp at the crank so I guess thats one goal to aim for. 

 

Lot of guys in the PNW are running DOT- R compound tires on the street. Yokohama 048 or 050's are very popular. These are very lightweight cars with some pretty good power to weight ratios. Turbo guys are pushing 250 to 275 RWHP in 2,000 lb cars.

 

BFG rivals are also a very sticky tire and come in lots of sizes. Looks like you're running some sort of 3 season tire now? DOT -R compounds will make an amazing difference. Some of the DOT tires are " Cheater " sizes. So a 225 is more like a 235 or 245 in actual width.

 

BTW, Toyo R1R's are really sticky and really wide for their stated size. The 245/40x17 should handle your Power without having to cut the sheet-metal. They have a lot of sizes in this tire. It's often overlooked 

 

Edit:  What size rims do you have now? 

 

They're 16" panasports, Im not sure about the width but they may only be 7.5" so Im super-limited with what rubber I can throw on there. I'm really not wanting to change the wheels, so I'll just get the stickiest widest rubber these wheels will support. R-compounds might have to do the job. R1Rs were on my radar - hopefully I can find a shop that would let me mount a few different sizes on my wheel for testing. Like you said, some of them are wider than others so an extra wide 225 might even be too much for my wheel to handle. 

 

I just bought a set of 225/50r15 Toyo R888R's, which is the new version of the old R888.  They are supposed to be better in the wet, and are still 100 treadwear.  Should be plenty sticky, and still reasonably practical for the street - at least as practical as r-comps can be anyway.  

 

If you are in the Toronto area, I found these guys unbeatable on price:  http://www.greenleaftire.ca/track-and-competition-pricing.html

 

Your car looks great by the way, wow!!!

 

Let me know how the 888's work out for you - though with this weather I doubt you'll be doing much driving yet do you take yours out in the wet? 

Thanks for the tip on that shop, yeah Im in the Toronto area so I'll definitely give them a shout when I start shopping tires. You ever drive out this way with your Z? 

[Nelsonian]

The largest and widest one piece Panasport wheels were offered in 16"x7". Had some mint condition ones but rising HP goals and need for more width forced the sale of them.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Nelsonian

[Chickenman]

The R1R's are available from Tire Rcak in a 225/45x16 and recommended rim width is 7" to 8.5". I'd go with the 45 seriers as I think a 225/50x16 is going to be too tall for your stance. 

Edited April 6, 2017 by Chickenman

[rturbo 930]

The suspension is from AZCar, their tubular arms and coil over setup. I think you're waaaaay optimistic about how much meat I can fit in the back, 275s seem out of the question. I really like my fitment right now so I'll try to measure how much more space I have to the spring. I'm guessing a 245 might be about max?? I wanna stick with 16s also. As for power - I hate to guess, but similar builds are easily 500hp at the crank so I guess thats one goal to aim for.

 

Not optimistic at all. See here: http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/122385-275s-in-240z-factory-well-mission-accomplished/

 

If you search here, you'll find a few others that have done it too. Clifton did it, with drag radials if I'm not mistaken. I think Bartman did it. It's a squeeze, but entirely doable. I don't know of anyone that did it with 16s though, and with 16s I think your problem will be tire selection.

 

For 500hp, I'd be looking at a really sticky tire, and some chassis reinforcement. Maybe driveline upgrades too, if it hasn't been done. I bet it's fun though.

[thedarkie]

The largest and widest one piece Panasport wheels were offered in 16"x7". Had some mint condition ones but rising HP goals and need for more width forced the sale of them.

 

Thanks! I think I remember now reading that... so mine must be 7" wide. Another limiting factor! 

 

The R1R's are available from Tire Rcak in a 225/45x16 and recommended rim width is 7" to 8.5". I'd go with the 45 seriers as I think a 225/50x16 is going to be too tall for your stance. 

 

Good tip. Actually I kind of want more ground clearance without raising the coil overs, so I might just go with a 225/50. The overall height difference between those and my current 205/50's is 0.8" so it'll give me roughly 0.4" of extra clearance for the oil pan and exhaust

[thedarkie]

Not optimistic at all. See here: http://forums.hybridz.org/topic/122385-275s-in-240z-factory-well-mission-accomplished/

 

If you search here, you'll find a few others that have done it too. Clifton did it, with drag radials if I'm not mistaken. I think Bartman did it. It's a squeeze, but entirely doable. I don't know of anyone that did it with 16s though, and with 16s I think your problem will be tire selection.

 

For 500hp, I'd be looking at a really sticky tire, and some chassis reinforcement. Maybe driveline upgrades too, if it hasn't been done. I bet it's fun though.

Thanks! Wooow that's tight but damn he made it fit... 

 

I desperately wanna stay with 16s. Actually that thread you linked is a further disappointment - he still had traction issues with a 235mm A048. I gotta search more of his posts, did he mention how much horsepower? 

 

The rabbit hole goes deeper....

 

 

As for chassis and driveline - I think I'll attack that this summer. The front rails are boxed, but beyond that she's pretty much a stock body. Also have an R200 LSD out back, but the transmission will likely be the weak point. Its a WC T5, and while some guys have gotten tens of thousands of miles on them with high HP cars, its definitely not going to take hard launches or track abuse - but Im ok with that. 

Edited April 6, 2017 by thedarkie

[rturbo 930]

He has a thread on his build in the RB forum. I don't remember exactly, but I think he's making over 400 to the wheels, so probably close to what you have.

 

Why is it that you want to stay with 16s? Wheel style? Fatter sidewall? If it's the former, you can get 3pc Panasports in a 17" wheel. Z Car Garage *might* be able to sell them to you. They've used them on a few cars, and I think they have them sized to fit 255 tires under stock fenders, front and rear.

[thedarkie]

He has a thread on his build in the RB forum. I don't remember exactly, but I think he's making over 400 to the wheels, so probably close to what you have.

 

Why is it that you want to stay with 16s? Wheel style? Fatter sidewall? If it's the former, you can get 3pc Panasports in a 17" wheel. Z Car Garage *might* be able to sell them to you. They've used them on a few cars, and I think they have them sized to fit 255 tires under stock fenders, front and rear.

 

I just prefer how 16s look on the car. I know it doesn't make things easier. In all likelihood I will just stick with my Panasports for this summer at least, which means Im shopping for a sticky 225/50. Anything is gonna be an improvement over my old 205s. 

 

 

Shopping list

 

R888 are.. uh.. cheap! 

 

225/50R16 - each - set

Hoosier Radial Wet H2O 91H $379 $1,730

Hoosier D.O.T. Drag Radial 2 $323 $1,476

Yokohama ADVAN A048 92W $347 $1,586

BFGoodrich g-Force R1 91W $288 $1,319

BFGoodrich g-Force R1 S 91W $276 $1,264

Hankook Ventus Z214 $251 $1,153

Hoosier A7 91W $379 $1,730

Hoosier R7 91W $379 $1,730

Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R 92Y $261 $1,197

Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R 92Y $260 $1,190

Toyo Proxes R888 92W $198 $911

Toyo Proxes RA1 $302 $1,380

Edited April 6, 2017 by thedarkie

[Greeko]

I just prefer how 16s look on the car. I know it doesn't make things easier. In all likelihood I will just stick with my Panasports for this summer at least, which means Im shopping for a sticky 225/50. Anything is gonna be an improvement over my old 205s. 

 

 

Shopping list

 

R888 are.. uh.. cheap! 

 

225/50R16 - each - set

Hoosier Radial Wet H2O 91H $379 $1,730

Hoosier D.O.T. Drag Radial 2 $323 $1,476

Yokohama ADVAN A048 92W $347 $1,586

BFGoodrich g-Force R1 91W $288 $1,319

BFGoodrich g-Force R1 S 91W $276 $1,264

Hankook Ventus Z214 $251 $1,153

Hoosier A7 91W $379 $1,730

Hoosier R7 91W $379 $1,730

Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R 92Y $261 $1,197

Pirelli P Zero Trofeo R 92Y $260 $1,190

Toyo Proxes R888 92W $198 $911

Toyo Proxes RA1 $302 $1,380

 

I was running the Kumho Escta as well...absolute garbage tire IMO... I ended up going from 205/50R15 to 245/40R17 and they are handling 350 whp very nicely.

 

The R888 will work really well... just change them once a year lol

[thedarkie]

I was running the Kumho Escta as well...absolute garbage tire IMO... I ended up going from 205/50R15 to 245/40R17 and they are handling 350 whp very nicely.

 

The R888 will work really well... just change them once a year lol

 

I think maybe the Trofeo R will be a better buy. Its not too much more expensive, and its a much much newer tire. The R888 is pretty ancient

[ryant67]

If you want Trofeo R, check out these guys:
https://pmctire.com/en/pirelli-p-zero-trofeo-race-225-50zr16-92y.tire

$202 CDN per tire.  Their shipping is outrageously cheap, or free, too!  

I'll be at the OZC Spring Garage sale at Whitehead by the way.  I don't get to Toronto too often with the Z otherwise - driving in the traffic there isn't exactly a good time



 

[ktm]

I am running 245/45 R16 Bridgestone Potenza RE11s on my car. I do not have fender flares and I have stock (well, Tokico springs) suspension. I also have an LS1 with 370 gears.

Edited April 16, 2017 by ktm

[thedarkie]

With Easter and general crap weather I haven't had time to get a video and more pics of the car! 

 

ktm, I know you discussed your wheels in another thread.... 16x8 +10 if I remember right? 

 

I see some Rotas available in 16x8 0 offset, what are your thoughts on fitment?

[ktm]

Correct, 16x8 +10.  The whole issue of stuffing more tire under your car is more than just tire width.  Even Clifton had the same issue with his car.  It is a combination of tire width, the tire itself (they are not all the same), and wheel specs.

 

A 16x8 +0 will not support 245's without flares.  Granted, I am running +10mm spacers in the front (which makes mine +0 effectively) for brake clearance, but the rears won't work.  Clifton was running higher positive offset wheels to stuff 275s without flares.  You can't push the wheel out, you need to suck it back by running higher positive offset wheels.