R200 Differential Removal Help

[ZHoob2004]

The default RT mount setup from technoversions (polyurethane snubber up top) works well with an OEM mount on the bottom, and, in my opinion, provides the best of both worlds for performance/noise. The pressure on the upper poly mount is low when just cruising, but it's there to keep the nose of the diff from lifting under acceleration. When under no load/engine braking, the diff pushes down on the OEM mount and doesn't transfer any additional vibration through the poly mount up top.

 

I believe I've also seen a setup using the RT mount where the energy suspension mount was bolted to the top of the diff with the OEM mount bolted to the bottom, and both installed, but I think that's a bit excessive myself.

[NewZed]

I have my own RT style mount with the urethane GM mount, hanging the diff nose from above.  No bottom mount at all, just the crossmember with no mount on it.  It's quiet.   I had urethane mustache bar mounts though and had to do some spacing with washers to keep the urethane from transmitting diff noise to the cabin.  So take care to isolate the mustache bar mounts also if you want to make it quiet.

 

The key to keeping it quiet is to allow just a small amount of play in the bushings.  Don't clamp the urethane down tightly.  With a stock rubber mount on the bottom you could leave a small air gap between the snubber and the diff to avoid noise transmission.  You'd want a new rubber Nissan mount though to avoid thumping/clunking.  The thump comes from the diff nose dropping down after lifting during acceleration.

 

The T3 mount is kind of overkill with the wires because the Energy Suspension mount has interlocking metal inside to hold it together if the urethane fails.  Thats why it works well alone on the top, it's not just hanging from urethane, there's metal in there.  The metal is separated by urethane though so it doesn't transmit noise.

 

http://www.energysuspension.com/products/Transmission-Mounts.html

 

[Jlhalsey3]

I ordered a stock Nissan mount for the lower crossmember. 

 

I have the ArizonaZcar Moustache bar and black mounts that came with it, not sure if they are rubber or urethane.

 

Cant visualize what you are suggesting for isolating the Moustache bar mounts with spacers. Can you provide some further details?

 

Thanks.

[NewZed]

Just imagine that each bushing has a little bit of room to move.  Just a hair.  The tighter the metal is pressed in to the urethane the more vibration that will be transmitted.  I used washers to add length to the center tube for my urethane bushings so that the urethane is not clamped tightly.  AZC's bar might not need anything.

 

I just remembered something that you might want to consider that might also be part of your noise problem.  Driveline angles.   Ron Tyler designed his first mount for a small block chevy application, so the diff nose is angled up a little bit if you use the hanging GM mount.  With a snubber and the Nissan lower mount you maintain the original Nissan diff nose angle.  But your V10 application might need some adjustment.  Worth confirming and adjusting while you're working on it.

[Jlhalsey3]

NewZed, regarding your pinion angle observation, I am sensitive to this issue. Before I moved from LA, I had my race shop do some work on the car, installed electric power steering, R200 ring/pinion swap, etc. They found the drive shaft vs pinion angle difference to be 3.7 degrees. They welded up the Moustache bar differential mounting holes and redrilled them ending up at 0.3 degrees difference.

 

I will be careful not to change the installed height of the differential nose when I replace the solid AZC lower mount with the OEM Nissan. In any case, I will measure the angle difference after installation to confirm.

[jhm]

Sounds like you're on the right track.

 

Regarding welding on the mustache bar.....I'd recommend against that in the future.  The bar is made of spring steel, which as we all know, responds poorly to exposure to extreme heating.

[HuD 91gt]

He has an aftermarket moustache bar.

[Jlhalsey3]

Correct, billet aluminum from ASC.

 

Hope to get the R200 back next week from the shop, they said it was in pretty good shape but they are going through it, replacing bearings and seals, setting it upon correctly w respect to pre-load, lash etc. They agreed that the missing circlips was a potential source of clunking rather than whine type noise. Hopefully with the rebuild, the circlips, and eliminating the solid lower mount, the car will be nice and quiet. Also putting in new lower control arm bushings.

 

Bought a pair of new 280ZX Turbo CV axles from the source NewZed provided, they look very nice and are the same lengths as my current axles. Now I can be a little more forceful trying to remove the ones in the car from the hubs since I have new ones on hand.

 

thanks for everyone’s help.

[Jlhalsey3]

ok, finally got the outter CV joints separated from the hubs, see picture. I ended up separating the joint body from the outer sealing plate with the three tabs as had been suggested earlier by NewZed. Bent the tabs back and pried inside then tabs and got them to move a little and then used a small sledge hammer on the body of the joints. If anyone else ends up in the same situation, make sure you wire up the shafts to something so they don't fall on the floor when the joint finally separates from the hub.

 

It appears grease had somehow gotten between the sealing plates and the hubs causing the plates to adhere strongly to the hubs.

 

Received the OEM lower mount which appears to be the identical thickness as the AZC billet mount  (1") so the nose of the diff will rest exactly the same distance above the cross member as it did with the solid mount, hopefully keeping the pinion angle unchanged.

 

Will post an update when I have the car back together and. road tested. Thanks for all the assistance. 

 

 

[NewZed]

19 minutes ago, Jlhalsey3 said:

 

It appears grease had somehow gotten between the sealing plates and the hubs causing the plates to adhere strongly to the hubs.

 

 

That's weird.  Did they make a sucking noise then they came free?  Like a vacuum seal?

 

I notice a pretty deep lip on the adapters but it looks like the grease seal sits on top of the lip in your first picture.  I wonder if whoever made the adapters intended for you to leave the flat grease seal plate off, or if they thought that the grease seal plate would fit inside the lip.

 

You probably want to study how those parts fit together, your axle ends and adapter, and compare to how Nissan did it.  Not sure it's the same.  Maybe somebody has a picture of the stock setup bolted together.  Thanks for updating, it's interesting.

 

[Jlhalsey3]

There is at least a 1/8” or maybe 3/16” lip on the circumference of the hub mounting surface. The seal plate fits tightly inside the recess. This is done, I believe, to ensure that the CV joint mounts  hubcentricly rather than relying the six bolts to center it. The hub is a Modern Motorsports product. But if grease finds its way between the seal plate and the recessed hub surface, a hydraulic force develops between the two as there is very little clearance to let air in. Also, it is very difficult to insert any pry tool between them due to the recess within the hub. I was only able get a small screwdriver started where the tabs are, after bending them back and using a hammer to slowly work the blade deeper working in turn at all three tab cutouts. Then hammer blows did the rest and the joint body separates from the plate. After that, even the plate alone was not easily pried out of the recess. And, of course, grease everywhere.

[NewZed]

That makes sense.  I see now that I didn't see the lip right in the picture.  Good luck, should be better once you get the new parts in.

 

[Jlhalsey3]

Update: I now have the R200 back, rebuilt by a local shop. Getting ready to install the circlips by inserting into the splines within the differential and pushing down with a 31 or 32mm socket until they pop into the grove towards the bottom. Hopefully no drama with this and also when I insert the axles hopefully with no more than a firm shove.

 

Due to some shipping misadventures when purchasing a remanufactured pair of 280ZXT CV axles from the source identified here earlier, I ended up with two drivers side axles.These are the shorter axles, about 5/16" shorter than driver side. Was going to reuse my passenger  side axle with the  new drivers side axle but after reading so many threads about Z31 axles being too long, I am now wondering if the 280ZXT axles also may be too long for the 240z chassis with R200. Can anyone comment on whether this is the case and therefore  I may be better off using two drivers side axles?

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

[NewZed]

Are you sure that they are of different lengths?  The Z31's seem to be but this writeup suggests that the 280ZX's aren't.  Nissan part numbers would tell a story but I can't find them.

 

The aftermarket and reman companies are full of bad info.

 

http://www.zhome.com/rnt/FordPower/HalfShaft.html

 

zcarsource does not differentiate, and they are rebuilt Nissan parts.

 

https://zcarsource.com/rebuilt-cv-half-shaft-for-the-1981-83-datsun-nissan-280zx-turbo

 

Autozone does not either.  Good luck.

 

https://www.autozone.com/drivetrain/cv-axle/duralast-gold-cv-axle/346646_0_12552

Edited April 11, 2019 by NewZed

[NewZed]

Found some numbers.  Apparently they are different.

 

jmortensen, in past posts, has recommended removing the struts and running the suspension through its full travel to be sure there's no binding.

 

https://www.nissanpartsdeal.com/parts-list/1982-nissan-280zx/rear-drive-shaft.html?Diagram=396_002

 

You could swap the shafts...

 

Edited April 11, 2019 by NewZed

[Jlhalsey3]

I am very sure they are a short and long pair. I measured the depth from the outer oil seal to the bottom of the splines in the differential: driver's side 3 13/16",  passenger side 4 1/8", so 5/16" difference. Same as the length difference of the axles. 

 

The problem with running the shorter driver's side axle in the passenger side is that the circlip will not reach the retaining groove in the differential and therefore won't lock in. I will check for binding when I get the diff and axles back in.

 

Right now I'm having a helluva time getting the circlips started down the splines within the diff. I am prying on one end of the circlip with a screwdriver to get it started inside the splines but it keeps popping back out. If I can get it started square in the splines, I'm sure I will be able to push it down the rest of the way with a 32mm diameter socket. Just can't get it started and I don't want to pound on it with the socket without already having gotten some of the clip inside the splines.

 

Suggestions welcome. Have written to Quaife technical support for tips well.

 

 

[NewZed]

Sorry, I wrote my post before my coffee kicked in.  Of course there's a right and a left because the splined diff shafts, of unequal length, are attached to the CV axles.  My mistake.

 

I don't know the Quaife internals but if it's open through the middle, maybe you can push a rod all the way through from the other, to press the clip against.  Stick the clip in cokced and use the rod as a backstop just to get it squared up.

 

If you can get a rod in there, you could shove the clip all the way down to the groove and catch an edge in the groove.  Then use the rod as a backstop and squeeze the clip in to the groove.  Less stress on the clip, it doesn't have to get so small.

Edited April 11, 2019 by NewZed

[jhm]

Couldn't you install the circlip on the axle, and then get the axle started into the diff (which would hold the circlip square and in place until the axle's fully inserted, and secured in place)?  

[jonbill]

I suspect Quaife will advise you to install the circlips before installing the diff in the carrier. 

You might be better off biting the bullet and taking it out again. As long as you don't mix up the shims under the bearing cups you can't mess up the setup, so nothing to worry about. 

[Jlhalsey3]

I am planning to take the axles and diff back to the shop and let them install the circlips. They are telling me that the clips are installed on the axles. I want them to install them and then insert the axles into the diff. Then pull the axles out so I can be confident I can install and remove them in my garage. If they have trouble with this approach, I will ask them to disassemble the diff and install the clips that way.

 

Another wrinkle I have noticed which may cause a problem is that the axles that came out of my car have a rectangular cross section circlip groove. The replacements I have purchased have a more of a V shaped groove. The circlips I bought have a round cross section which would appear to fit the V cross section axle grooves and not my original axles with the rectangular cross section grooves. Perhaps why my axles had no clips at all. Does anyone know if there is a different clip for rectangular groove axles and the part number for same?

 

By the way, fyi, I have now bought two pairs of 1981-1983 280ZX Turbo remanufactured axles from different eBay vendors, both based in China I believe. Both sets contained equal length axles, the shorter ones for the drivers side. They seem to believe the axles are the same part and part #. On my R200, the passenger side depth from the outer seal to the circlip groove is 5/16” greater than the driver’s side. Appears using a short driver side axle in the passenger side will prevent the clip from reaching and engaging the groove. 

 

Thanks