Hood won't fit 240Z fresh paint.

[5 Star Rising]

Ok so I think I really screwed up here but thought I would ask anyway 😔.  I have a 71 series 1 240z 12/70.  I painted it myself for the first time painting any car and it came out great, I spent countless hours on youtube and calling around for advice on what to do and what not to do what to use and what not to use, order of things to do it in. But this is something that I missed and wish I would have read it or done before I painted the car. ALIGN ALL THE PANELS FIRST then paint the car. I did it the opposite and now I think I'm screwed. The hood won't align.

 

After the car was painted I aligned the doors to the quarters and they are not perfect but decent, I then aligned the fenders to the doors with the same result, mounted the cowl panel and inspection lids, lastly I installed the hood. I should also mention that this is not the correct hood for the car this hood came off a early 260Z. I remember spending countless hours trying to get the sheetmetal straight on this hood as it was a bit warped but overall the actual framing of the hood was straight and original. Here is another thing, the hood that came off my car was damaged I believe it was hit slightly in the front,  I remember having to pull out my radiator support slightly with a come-along attached to a tree, I did not look totalled but you could tell there was a small collision that had occurred. 

 

So my new painted hood won't align correctly. It's either too high in the front and sits above the fender extension buckets or if adjusted down in the front it sits like a 1" too high in the rear near the cowl panel. Some times it hit the bolts on the side gaps when trying to close. I have loosed the brackets that mount to the body and literally spent 8 hours trying to find a good combination that I can live with as far as an adjustment and it's always off, its really frustrating and depressing. I have loosened the fenders and the headlight buckets to try to move them around but they don't really move much and I'm being careful not to mess up the paint...i have even taken out my grinder and grinded down a 1/2" of the hood inner lip that was contacting the fender "wish i wouldn't have done that" but its just the lip and can be touched up. Still it won't close, I have the latch completely off, just trying to get the hood to lay closed on its own.

 

I read somewhere that sometimes the hoods are different and may not fit right from different years. I have another 240z a 73 that has its correct hood. I also have another set of hood hinges and twist bars off a 280z. Wonder if I should try swapping stuff to see if it fits better and if my hood is the problem. But kind of leaning towards the unibody being slightly tweaked. Damn this sucks. I learned a big lesson here. I can push down in the front of the hood and the hinges will flex down and then spring back when letting go, wonder of that is normal or if my spring hinges are messed up.

 

Doesn't look good for this situation but still hoping for some advice if there is anything else I could try.

 

Thanks 

 

 

[jonbill]

if you can get it low enough at the front but its too high at the bulkhead, the height can be adjusted by screwing in the catch bolt in the bonnet. 

if that doesnt make any difference, check if the bonnet is resting on the rad core support at the front. if it is, you'll have to take the bumper off z loosen all the wing bolts and raise it a bit and start again. 

 

[grannyknot]

Post pics, we need to see what you are seeing, it does sound like the unibody and or hood are not in their proper shape.

I would try to get the hood sitting flush with cowl and fenders and then start working on the hinges, there's lots of tweaking that can be done to the hinges and because some of these hinges are quite worn you may have to enlarge to mounting holes so the hinge unit can sit farther down than normally.

Also the 8 hex head screws that hold the fender on in the gap between the fender and hood are not a standard M6x1mm, The head is not as tall/thick as the rest of the M6x1mm screws and there is only one thin washer with no lock washer.

[Miles]

This helped me align my hood:

 

https://www.classiczcars.com/articles/body-paint/hood-alignment-primer-r59/

 

 

https://www.classiczcars.com/forums/topic/3702-hood-alignment/

 

 

Also, search the body sections of Hybridz and ClassicZcar for a member named "EScanlon".  He is the go-to body panel/hood alignment guy.

[5 Star Rising]

On 10/8/2021 at 2:00 PM, grannyknot said:

Post pics, we need to see what you are seeing, it does sound like the unibody and or hood are not in their proper shape.

I would try to get the hood sitting flush with cowl and fenders and then start working on the hinges, there's lots of tweaking that can be done to the hinges and because some of these hinges are quite worn you may have to enlarge to mounting holes so the hinge unit can sit farther down than normally.

Also the 8 hex head screws that hold the fender on in the gap between the fender and hood are not a standard M6x1mm, The head is not as tall/thick as the rest of the M6x1mm screws and there is only one thin washer with no lock washer.

Hmm well that could be something right there also. I have full size head stainless bolts with a lock washer and regular washer. However I did remove all of those just to see if the hood would sit flat and it still didn't lay right. Almost like it's a teeter totter in the middle.  It's not that drastic but definitely cant get it right. Going to take some photos and try the advice given.

[5 Star Rising]

On 10/8/2021 at 12:54 PM, jonbill said:

if you can get it low enough at the front but its too high at the bulkhead, the height can be adjusted by screwing in the catch bolt in the bonnet. 

if that doesnt make any difference, check if the bonnet is resting on the rad core support at the front. if it is, you'll have to take the bumper off z loosen all the wing bolts and raise it a bit and start again. 

 

The hood sometime hits the front grill top when opening and closing. Got it pretty low in the front. What catch bolt in the hood are you referring to? Not sure I follow. 

[jonbill]

This thing. It can  be screwed in and out a bit to adjust height. 

(photo borrowed from jdmcarparts.com)

[5 Star Rising]

10 hours ago, jonbill said:

This thing. It can  be screwed in and out a bit to adjust height. 

(photo borrowed from jdmcarparts.com)

Oh right! Well unfortunately I have that entire unit removed just to get the hood to sit flat first before adding the pin unit.

[toolman]

5 star raising,

    The best way to solve your problem is to post pics of your hood -pics of hood rear gap, left and right hood side gap, hood front edge

compared to both L and R headlight covers and hood height (frnt ,sides and back).   Leave the hood catch off till you fix hood alignment 

first.   Always do one correction at a time then analysis the results.   Take the pics, it will make it easier to solve your problem.

                                                                                                                                                       Toolman

[5 Star Rising]

Here is a few pics but be advised that I have "everything" loose so there really isn't a good picture to describe what I'm dealing with because every adjustment I make gives a different result but I cant seem to get everything lined up with out having one side too high and the other side perfect..

 

There is a picture of the passenger side of the car that has one of the tortion bars popped out of its track in the hinge assembly. Seemed like it lowered the front of the hood a little.  My hinges would spring down when pushing on the hood and then spring back up above the fender when I let go, this is with the hinge to body mounts all the way down. I read somewhere that those bars can weaken or the hinges can get play in them and get worn out.

 

I have a few S30s so I pulled an entire hinge assembly with bars off a 77 280z and cleaned it up and painted it tonight, tomorrow after its dry, I will remove the hood and install this new hinge assembly and see if there is any difference. But still could be that the unibody or hood is just tweaked.. 😭

[Mayolives]

On 10/8/2021 at 2:01 PM, 5 Star Rising said:

Here is another thing, the hood that came off my car was damaged I believe it was hit slightly in the front,  I remember having to pull out my radiator support slightly with a come-along attached to a tree, I did not look totalled but you could tell there was a small collision that had occurred. 

I had to spend a bunch of time adjusting the hood parts, fenders and doors and hatch after my last painted z car was done.  But it did all come together.  I suspect your first statement about the front end damage is where you need to start to solve your problem.  Take some measurments especially side to side from one fender to the other.  Do you have another car to compare your findings against?   You may need to do some dissassembling before you can move some things back to where to belong.  Take your time.  Even very small out of whack measurments can cause big alingment problems. 

[toolman]

5 Star Rising,

        If your main concern is the hood pushing back after you push it down, your problem is probably with the hood hinges and/or torsion rods.  Note-if you have not removed your grille, you should as it will make easier to work on your hood and hinges

But First, remove your hood and check for squareness. 

 

If your Hood is not within specs, the Hood is damaged and probably need to be replaced.

  

Now, Remove the Hood Hinges and Torsion Bars.   Replace the Hood on the car.   Using shims( anything can be used) and attempt

the "level" the hood as best as possible.   This method will demonstrate if the hood can be made level with your car.   If this can not be accomplished, the hood or car body is damaged.

   If the hood is level with the body, then the problem is with the hinges and/or torsion rods.   Remove rods from hinges.   Check both hinges and rods for damage and wear.  Open and close hinges-full movement-measure if necessary.   The rods are more difficult to inspect.   Place them close together.   Match the angles the rods on both rods.   Being Spring Steel , the rod angles should very similar but spring tension is hard to measure unless you have a spring scale( like fish weight scale).   If the hinges and/or torsion rods do not pass, replacement is necessary.   If the hinge and rods pass, the next step is Hood Adustment.   Replace Hinges but Rods off, this way you are 

check the hinges only.  Adjust the hood(with no hood lock).   With hood level and square, mark the hinges so you can replace the rods.  If you can not adjust  the hinges at this point, you may have slot the hinges mounting holes.

 You have to use the step by step method otherwise you never solve the problem.

      If this method does not solve your problem, you might have a damaged front end but that can be checked so keep posting.

                                                                                                                                  Tool Man

     

Edited November 11, 2021 by toolman

[5 Star Rising]

Thanks Toolman that's great info. 

 

What I did last night before reading this post was swap my hinges and rods as a unit that was pulled out of a straight 1977 280Z. I noticed that these do not spring up when pushed down so that's good,  however I still have some alignment issues. I slotted the tops of the hinges to be able to push them down farther while I had the unit out but didn't make that big of a difference..

 

Still the front of my hood on the driver's side sticks up and the side gaps are different with the drivers side gap being larger and the passenger side gap being tight. I shimmed the hood to bracket mounting point on the passenger side with fat washers and it helped a tiny bit but the gap is still different from the left and right sides of the hood to fender gap. I believe the car was hit on the passenger side as that's where I remember pulling the radiator support out slightly and the original hood was pushed in and bent down alittle if I remember.

 

I feel like the passenger headlight bucket is pointing down alittle in the front making the hood look like its sitting up higher.

 

I wonder if I could somehow slot the headlight bucket to swivel up a little and maybe slot the actual hood mounting holes a bit so the hood might come down farther. I'm not a big fan of constantly removing this painted hood, just a matter of time before it gets damaged (hope not) but I guess its what's needed to figure this out.

 

Here is some more pics. Things look alittle better with the new hinges but still got some fitment issues. The headlight bucket bolts are loose btw.

[Miles]

This worked for me when the nose of the hood wouldn't align with the headlight buckets:

 

https://www.classiczcars.com/forums/topic/42496-hood-alignment/

 

To lower the hood, you have to tilt the hood.

Get the hood wide open, loosen the 2x 2 bolts between the hinges & the hood.

Then push gently with your knee on the bottom side, where the emblem is, and pull towards you the top. Clamp the bolts.

That will create a rotation motion of the hood that will lower the front while it will be closed. Try to close it gently since hood might still rub against the fenders.

To center it, you have to play with top/bottom position with a translation, still with the same bolts. If it is too far on the left, you have to lower the right side & to rise left side.

I know how it works, I still fight each time I want to put everything back together.

Edited November 12, 2021 by Miles

[5 Star Rising]

6 hours ago, Miles said:

This worked for me when the nose of the hood wouldn't align with the headlight buckets:

 

https://www.classiczcars.com/forums/topic/42496-hood-alignment/

 

To lower the hood, you have to tilt the hood.

Get the hood wide open, loosen the 2x 2 bolts between the hinges & the hood.

Then push gently with your knee on the bottom side, where the emblem is, and pull towards you the top. Clamp the bolts.

That will create a rotation motion of the hood that will lower the front while it will be closed. Try to close it gently since hood might still rub against the fenders.

To center it, you have to play with top/bottom position with a translation, still with the same bolts. If it is too far on the left, you have to lower the right side & to rise left side.

I know how it works, I still fight each time I want to put everything back together.

This has definitely been a learning experience. I have the grill out now and the hinges are all the way down on the body on both sides you could see the gap difference from the radiator support to the bottom of hood when the hood is closed. Way bigger gap on the drivers side than the passenger side and the mounting bolts line up straight across to the radiator support in different locations. Body could be tweaked alittle. Think I will try to get some new burr bits tomorrow and wallow out the hood holes a little to drop the hood down on the right side hopefully.... Sucks

[toolman]

5 Star Rising,

    By your description of different gaps on your Core Support and your Hood Height problems, you might have Twisted Core Support.

To verify that conclusion, you must make measurements  of your front end.   Place your car on a flat hard surface.   Make your wheels in straight

ahead direction.   Take measurements in inches or millimeters.   First, always measure from factory bolt holes vertically to the ground .    Start at the 10mm bolt attached to the front inside of the Ringt and Left Headlight housings.   Since this is the furthest bolt that is attached to the

Front Core Support,  any body damage will show up as significant differances in your Right and Left Ground Height measurements.

If the damage is not too bad , it still can repaired but probably need a body shop to do the work.  Please use measurements(in inches or

millimeters)  to describe your problems.  This procedure will aid in determining how to fix your problem.

                                                                                                                        Tool Man

 

[5 Star Rising]

On 11/13/2021 at 9:38 PM, toolman said:

5 Star Rising,

    By your description of different gaps on your Core Support and your Hood Height problems, you might have Twisted Core Support.

To verify that conclusion, you must make measurements  of your front end.   Place your car on a flat hard surface.   Make your wheels in straight

ahead direction.   Take measurements in inches or millimeters.   First, always measure from factory bolt holes vertically to the ground .    Start at the 10mm bolt attached to the front inside of the Ringt and Left Headlight housings.   Since this is the furthest bolt that is attached to the

Front Core Support,  any body damage will show up as significant differances in your Right and Left Ground Height measurements.

If the damage is not too bad , it still can repaired but probably need a body shop to do the work.  Please use measurements(in inches or

millimeters)  to describe your problems.  This procedure will aid in determining how to fix your problem.

                                                                                                                        Tool Man

 

 

 I took a break from this car, but I'm back at it and still have the hood issue obviously. I took some measurements from the ground to the first hood hinge bolt on each side and the

passenger side of the car sits a whopping 5/8"s lower than the drivers side. It looks like everything is like 5/8 off. The drivers side of the hood sits up  high and its hood hinge is bottomed out ontop of the bumper bracket and cant go down any further and that's even after slotting the holes.  I could still slot the actual hood holes and that might bring down the hood on the drivers side But I would still have a issue on the passenger side where the hood cant go any further down without it teetering up at the cowl side.  It's like the passenger side of the car needs to come up 5/8".. that's around the location where the car was slightly hit. How can this be done with out screwing up the paint?  This is bummer.

Edited January 22, 2022 by 5 Star Rising

[toolman]

5 Star Rising,   I hate to be the bearer of "Bad News" but  if your measurements are correct, a proper repair is beyond most home mechanics.  I am a ASE Certified

Automotive Body and Paint Repairman.   Your damage is to great to just slot brackets and achieve proper alignment.    I would say your best best is get a repair estimate

from a Body Shop in your area.   But fixing the car and not damaging the paint job might not not be possible.  I hope this advise helps.

[5 Star Rising]

I took another close look. Looks like the front clip ledge that the fender extension goes on is bowed in alittle.  It is also the area where the hood hinges bolt to. Looks as if it was hit in the downward position on the front passenger side causing the hood hinge bolts and section to sit 5/8" lower than on the drivers side. I dont believe the car was in a major collision just a light tap in that area. I think I'm going to remove the fender and hood and try to pull that area up a little until I get that bottom hinge bolt to around the same height as on the drivers side from the ground up. Sucks but it has to be even. 

[5 Star Rising]

I was able to carefully straighten the front clip alittle and get everything lined up and put back on. The hood is lined up and opens and shuts. Finally!! Thanks for the advice