Not all R200 carriers are created equal

[blueovalz]

I'd appreciate if everybody would read the recent post titled "input shaft sides?" I found that my Torsen carrier has the long and short differential stubs reversed from a factory carrier. This of course, makes no difference if one uses the U-jointed shafts being they are the same length, but with the CV jointed shafts, this would cause a binding on one side, and I'm curious if this could be why my CV jointed shafts in my factory single-track carrier have plenty of play (end-to-end) on both sides, while other members seem to have had problems with their shafts binding when installed. I would like to know if this is something that others have run into. It threw me way off base in my plans for installing this unit this week, and only found out when I was attempting to answer this other post I assumed that all carriers used the short stub in the driver's side, but this carrier uses the long stub on the driver's side. All numbers on the case match all numbers on the stock cases, so.......it must be the carrier.

[RB26powered74zcar]

Intresting post... I'm just guessing here but would'nt it depend on what R&P a diff had installed in it, as to which side the long or short stub would need to go?

 

I've seen the inside of 3:36 diffs and the whole carrier was farther to one side than say a 4:11 because of the ring gear size, and is made up for with the thick shim set being used on one side vrs the other. Does this make any sense... ???

[stony]

you think its the carrier???? BTW im in the same boat as BOZ. my axles do not fit right because they are setup the same way that i have in my stock r-200. for some reason this Nismo diff i have now requires the input shafts be reversed/?????

[blueovalz]

Thank goodness I have another set of new boots that will allow me to swap the stubs. Who would have thought the two would be reversed. Like I said though, with the U-jointed shafts, it wouldn't make any difference. I guess I'll be re-doing the shafts this week instead of installing the diff.

[stony]

i have been trying to get mine apart to swap them but they will not come apart and i dont want to destroy the input shaft trying. nobody here in alaska has the tooling to pull them apart. looks like i will have to send them back to the driveshaft shop.com to have them reassembled;<

[jt1]

I've got a Quaife in my R200, and the end caps in it are reversed from stock. No idea why?

 

John

[stony]

HMmmmmm something tells me that the aftermarket diffs are setup different ;< I guess i will just get my input shafts swapped

[JMortensen]

I think what J is talking about is a carrier break, and I'm not aware of any Japanese car that has one, although I've been learning that I wasn't aware of a few other things about Nissan diffs. Basically the "step" where the ring gear sits is machined closer to the pinion shaft to accomodate lower gearing without a really thick ring gear.

 

When you go to a lower gear ratio, the ring gear gets thicker, so a 4.10 will have a thicker ring gear than a 3.36. This is because the pinion has less teeth, so less diameter, and for the two to mesh, the ring gear has to be wider.

 

I dealt with this A LOT in American diffs, and never saw one where they changed the shafts. It just doesn't make sense to change the shafts, even when there is a carrier break. Even in REALLY extreme cases, like 6.00 gears, you usually find another way around issues, like notched crosspins and grinding ring gear teeth.

 

Also, at least in American stuff, the carrier shims are pretty much the same between the 4.10 and the 3.36, because the distance is made up in the ring gear and not the shims. The only time I saw people with the carrier shimmed to one extreme or the other was when they had the wrong carrier (with the wrong break) for the ring and pinion they were installing.

 

I'd bet someone just started manufacturing these without actually taking one out of a car, and is plain 'ol doing it wrong. I'd suggest that BOZ complain LOUDLY to the manufacturer to prevent further screw ups.

 

Jon Mortensen

[blueovalz]

I have no idea who the manufacturer is. I believe it is an original Gleason Torsen carrier used by an old racing team as a spare that was never used. It may be an old NISMO part, but I have no idea. Those dang japanese cars, with the driver's side on the right, is probably why the short stub goes on the right side Anyway, today I grabbed one of my spare sets of CV jointed shafts and put new boots on them, and swapped the stubs so that the short stub is on the long axle (passenger side). FWIW, the actual axle length (no CV joints on the axles) is 14.725 on the passenger side, and 14.125 on the driver's side (as driven by the USA drivers). Everything else is equal and identical between both sides (with the exception of this subject of the stub lengths, which is internal and does not effect the length of the shaft once installed). I had an opportunity to see where potential weaknesses in these shafts are when I tore them down. It was quite interesting in how the inboard and outboard joints are designed very differently in the thrust surfaces used against the "tripod" bearings. NOW I'm ready for this thing to go into the car (hopefully tomorrow).

[jt1]

Terry: Member BobH. used to have one of those Torsen diffs for a R200. Apparently they are a pretty rare bird, with something like 50 being produced! I know he was trying to find out some more info on it, but don't know what he was able to come up with. You might contact him and see what he learned.

 

John

[stony]

swapped my input shafts around and they fit fine now

[j260z]

stony, did you just swap the inner cvs onto the opposite shafts?

[stony]

yes

[jeffp]

I just installed a Quaife in my car.

I had a LSD unit before and when I took it apart I found out one shaft was longer and binding the diff. I had no idea they were longer, but here is what I did find out.

First I had my shafts rebuilt, and here may have been my problem. When I first installed the LSD I had no problems at all with the install. Then the shafts were rebuilt, and as I said I did not know at the time they were different. I did notice I had a little trouble installing the driver side shaft, it did seem a little to long as compared to the passenger side shaft. That was about all I thought about at the time. Then when I took it apart that is when I noticed the binding.

When I installed the Quaife, I made sure the inboard shaft was the correct one for each side. I checked the distance on the shafts using the snap rings as a gauge for the carrier and the shaft (oh BTY Quaife doesn't install the snap rings, you have to get them from Nissan for the diff) So I made sure the correct input spline to the diff was correct on each side. Then when I installed the shafts I did notice again that the driver side shaft fit loser then the last time I installed them.

Seems to me I just may have lucked out on this one as when the shafts were rebuilt they swapped out the shafts and did not realize it.

So I will keep an eye on them just to make sure they have enough free travel the first time I drive the car.

[blueovalz]

I bought the British Victoria boot kits and swapped the inboard CV joints, and put it all up under the car, and everything works well now (1/2" of end-to-end play on both shafts at full droop). I did notice that to buy a rebuilt CV jointed 280ZX Turbo shaft, the parts houses (all of them that I asked) only listed one side, and NOT both sides, in their part number references. Thus there is no distinction between left and right sides in their references (which is short sighted on their behalf).

[tannji]

Hey guys.... interesting topic..... have question a little off.... but not much.

Being as you all are running the CV joint conversions, and I am about to start sending Ross components of my drive train, give me some feed-back here.

My understanding is (From Searching this Forum!!!!!) lol that you dont need to use CV's unless you are running over 350 HP/TQ... hard! probably like 400+ and hard. I plan on no more than 400HP, with whatever torque I end up with, out of most likely an LT1, tho I run the TPI now. However, is there a different feel to CV's? Or are they more durable over the long run, or just harder to break over the short haul with High horse? I dont plan on a lot of track use... probably just enough to get some time slips and some fun. Mostly this will be a daily driver with occasional brief hard driving. (I dont really need to explain that, do I?? = )

I am about to do most of Ross's conversions, brakes, rotors, 5-lug hubs, ect. Is there enough difference in durability over the long haul to justify CV's, and are they smoother/easier on the drive train? Or would I be better off spending that money on other things.... of which I never seem to run out...

 

Any thots on this in general is what I am looking for, and I prefer it from people who already have the CV joints, and can relate what they believe the differences to be, both technically, and from a driving experience standpoint.

thanks a bunch,

tannji

[blueovalz]

I cannot address claims made on the forum here that the ride is smoother with the CV joints verses the U-joints (a string on this appeared several months ago). There also has been augments about whether the CV jointed shafts are indeed any stronger than the U-jointed shafts. High HP numbers have been put on both successfully, and both have had failures. My take on all this: U-joints will work if the geometry on the shafts is ideal (straight out the diff to the axles with little to no angularity in the joints), especially in the application of torque. Squatting, lowered cars, and cornering changes all of this, and unless taken into account, the U-joint is going to be punished, even behind a weak V8. The CV joint will handle the angularity much better. I've disassembled the CV joints, and they are efficient in that no more material has been used in the "shell" that the tripod bearings thrust against, than is needed to keep them alive. Personally, I'd say "no doubt about it, the CV is stronger" (they were a factory upgrade to the U-joint on the Turbo cars), and I agree, the "feel" may be improved in driving over the U-jointed shafts. If you plan on the LT1, and the shafts are not straight out (especially in a squatting hole shot), then I'd highly recommend the CV joint set-up, regardless of how strong you make your V-8. If you have any more questions, feel free to start a new string about the shafts to assist future searches on the subject of the CV joints rather than carry this string in a different direction

[tannji]

Hey, BOZ (?).... thanks for the info..... so being that the geometry is rarely perfect, I should probably be at least planning for the CV conversion. You mentioned the parts houses not differentiating between sides in their listings... you are recieving the correct shafts in the end, right? Can you recommend one part supplier in particular? I will search.... but have no idea of who to avoid. Also, my understanding is that I will send Ross my companion flange AND the turbo zx shaft, when I get them back, all I need to do is measure the diff-side stub, and the longer one goes to the passenger side. So far, so good, if I am following your conversation correctly. Sorry if I took this off topic, but the differing lengths caught my attention too, hadnt heard of that before.

 

tannji

[fl327]

I would think an extremely lowered car is prone to losing halfshafts

I plan to do a cv swap once I find a 3.7 lsd diff, because I plan to keep the Squat alive!

[blueovalz]

With all that said about the squatting factor, I did raise the differential up over an inch on both my Z cars simply to straighten out the shafts. As far as a parts source for the shafts, I'd recommend finding a place (I used the internet and found a reasonably priced place in FL, but I do not recall the name of the business) that rebuilds the shafts and send your shafts to them, with a note explaining the situation, with a follow-up phone call to insure no screw-ups.