zredbaron Posted July 10, 2017 Author Share Posted July 10, 2017 (edited) Still here, though I'm rather fatigued. I'll spare the list of challenges, I really don't care to write them out. Drilling through the clutch fork, under the car, took the cake last month, for sure. Wow, that's the hardest metal I've ever had the frustration to modify. I achieved driving the car onto the trailer under it's own power... and much has fallen apart since that moment. Literally 2 hours later, and < 1 mile from my road-test playground, my truck engine gave out after 286,000 miles. I've since had a series of challenges getting a crate motor delivered. Seriously. I traveled out of country, which didn't help either. I had to delay delivery of my Z to the fab shop in Portland for two reasons... tow logistics, and now, spontaneously, I am having electrical issues in my Z. Nothing has been touched! Could be ignition or relays, I suppose, but it's odd behavior. Flashers and fuel pump click on and off, as do most electrical loads, with the key out of the ignition. No troubleshooting yet -- I disconnected the battery and went and had a drink. But hey, I drove it 10 feet.... progress is progress. Even if it's about as frustrating as I've ever experienced. https://youtu.be/wKsXf-ihOc4 Edited July 10, 2017 by zredbaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve260z Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Feel ya. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryant67 Posted July 11, 2017 Share Posted July 11, 2017 Sometimes you just gotta focus on the positives. The new engine is in and running, no issues with it either, which is a huge step! So far as the electrical issues, I'd check your grounds. It's odd that multiple electrical systems would be misbehaving all of a sudden. You are running one of those fancy lithium batteries too I believe, right? They can be a real pain when they have been discharged. I'd also check that, or try throwing your truck battery in to see what happens. Hope it's not the battery though, those suckers are EXPENSIVE. Onwards and upwards! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted July 15, 2017 Author Share Posted July 15, 2017 (edited) Thanks fellas. I delivered the car to an electrical specialist. Turns out alternator is fried, so far, which I'm almost certain was my fault for a brief moment while assembling the engine. Weird that it was functional for "a while" and then spontaneously gave out while unattended? Electrons are quirky critters. I have no reason to suspect my Li battery. Agreed, even an in-depth electrical repair will be less costly than simply replacing the battery! Haha. A ridiculous statement, now that I type it. My exhaust / strut bar fabrication and corner balance appointment in Portland is pushed back to July 28, with a pickup and chassis dyno on Aug 11. You're right. The engine is still solid. And I find myself more and more appreciative for the well-reputed engine dyno break-in... thanks Joe and Arnie! Projected first local autocross event will be September 9-10. (They do 4 events in 2 days here!? Wow. Sand and Sage Sports Car Club.) Jon, do you have any events in the Seattle area in August? It's almost time... Edited July 15, 2017 by zredbaron 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted July 16, 2017 Share Posted July 16, 2017 Projected first local autocross event will be September 9-10. (They do 4 events in 2 days here!? Wow. Sand and Sage Sports Car Club.) Jon, do you have any events in the Seattle area in August? It's almost time... I'm sure there are a bunch. You really want to tow it all the way over here? I can come to you if you're looking for a co-driver / moral support. I don't think I'm going to get mine running again this year. Feel like I'm stuck in neutral for 2 years now and can't move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 Success! After many obstacles... I have successfully road tested my Z and deem it ready for suspension tune and chassis dyno. This Friday I will deliver the car to PSI in Portland for exhaust, strut bars, alignment and corner balance. Aug 11th is my appointment on the chassis dyno! Untuned road-test media attached! Huge thank you to all contributors, most notably Joe Harlan and Jon Mortensen. Thank you all! Rev Limit.mov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted July 25, 2017 Author Share Posted July 25, 2017 Weird, this file didn't want to upload to HybridZ for some reason. YouTube workaround: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cH8EFWg3Ks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryant67 Posted July 25, 2017 Share Posted July 25, 2017 Awesome, congrats!!! Looking forward to reading about how the chassis dyno goes. Still lots of good weather left for you to enjoy the car before Winter as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munters Posted July 26, 2017 Share Posted July 26, 2017 Congrats for your being back on the road. Do you know LiFeYPo4 Batterie? as compact, more secure and "just" 30% of the cost. Im using it now for 5000 miles. I would never go back to gel or liquid batteries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted July 26, 2017 Author Share Posted July 26, 2017 (edited) Thanks! Forgot to mention that my electrical issues were twofold.... a fried alternator and a fried hazard switch / pigtail harness. Replacing the alternator and removing the switch + harness restored the electrical system. Jon, I'm thinking I might attend the Saturday practice event and Sunday race in Shelton on Aug 12-13 (Western WA SCC). Edited July 26, 2017 by zredbaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 (edited) Chassis dyno and fabrication follow-up from this past weekend. Picked up my car from Portland Speed Industries in Portland, OR. Great shop for fabrication and setup needs! They also have a chassis dyno, so for me, it was a one-stop trip to Portland. Phenomenal work on the 3" exhaust. They mounted the muffler in the transmission tunnel. Not sure why I didn't take a good picture of the muffler itself. The strut bars were what I was looking for, too. I didn't initially imagine the assymetrical shape of the front brace, but after getting used to it, I really like the fabricator's approach. Nice and tight, too. The chassis dyno experience wasn't what we were hoping for. Joe came to help with the tune, and Jon Mortensen came down from Seattle again to see "carb/dyno tuning done efficiently." Unfortunately, the shop had double-booked the dyno and didn't tell me / us. Once my car was on the dyno, the shop manager simply needed help and couldn't be in two places at once. We could have performed our pulls in under 90 mins had he or a tech been at our disposal. Such is life. As for the car... we didn't have enough jets to tune it. The shame! LOL. 65F8 idles were too small for a proper transition. The engine kept leaning out once the cam kicked in above 5000, and we aborted several runs. 185 mains were the biggest I had, and they weren't having much effect. We tossed in the smallest air correctors I had, 145, and surprisingly that dropped us into the operable AFR and we completed a pull. 264 whp, 225 ft-lbs at 6300 so far, with a nice, flat torque curve. Once it gets going! Haha, ugh. Graph attached. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9__Kb_ZBIpY A fantastic start considering the main jets aren't even correct, so nothing else can actually be dialed in, including final timing. I've since reduced the chokes to 38mm from 40mm and performed a road test. Per my wideband O2 sensor, it brought the AFR back in line, no sweat. So... I'll just have to do another chassis dyno for a final tune once I have a sufficient range of jets available. Chassis dyno follow-up will occur within 30 days. Edited August 22, 2017 by zredbaron 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhm Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Looking good, as always, Mark! Curious what parts you used for your CV axles....specifically, which CV joints and what size axle? I'm about to do the same mod on my '73. Thx, and keep the updates coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryant67 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 It's always a treat reading updates on your build. Those are some strong numbers already, with room for even more power with some extra jetting tweaks. Good stuff! Tidy work on the exhaust line. I'm surprised you're only running what looks like an 18" long 5" round muffler - must really scream at WOT!! The strut bracing looks great too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted August 23, 2017 Author Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) Thank you, gentlemen! John -- the CV axles are from Wolf Creek Racing, and they are a great product. Great to see you're still out there! Ryan -- the muffler is 14" long, and is a 4" diameter (Magnaflow 14419). The "race" muffler option was 6" diameter and 6" long (Magnaflow 14159). Longer mufflers are quieter, despite how thin the first option is. Personally I don't think it's all that loud, I think the muffler does a great job and the exhaust has very little resonance. That said, many of the clubs here in WA have a 96 dB sound limit, so I guess I'll find out one way or the other! I'm close, no doubt. There's room for a 2nd muffler downstream should it come to that. I'm a huge fan of Magnaflow straight-through mufflers. Wonderful, rich tones. I first installed one on my 240Z in 2004. Liked it so much I run dual Magnaflow exhaust on my truck, too. Edited August 28, 2017 by zredbaron 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted April 18, 2018 Author Share Posted April 18, 2018 (edited) We're back online! Woohoo! I have a lot of updates, such as exhaust and other upgrades... but first, let me get the time-sensitive matter out there on the internet! (I posted the following yesterday on the triple weber thread, believing it to be this thread. Oops. Mostly duplicate content for those of you who are subscribed to both.) Many thanks to the admins for restoring "Reply to Post" functionality! I have been kicking the "chassis dyno R&D" can down the road long enough. I have an appointment for Friday, May 4, 2018, which could get delayed a couple weeks if I am waiting on overseas shipping. Unfortunately, an air box will not be an option for this round of dyno pulls. My custom strut braces have really meaty and obstructive flanges. However, I plan on doing intake volumetric efficiency research with regard to venturi diameters (38mm and 40mm) and the effects of combinations with various velocity stacks ("air horns" / "trumpets"). Here are my top air horn picks I am considering: For testing lengths, I like: http://www.emeraldm3d.com/throttle-body-kits/emerald-adjustable-length-intake.html Ideally, this would give us an idea how length of the air horns affects or doesn't affect performance Dyno will only be valuable for WOT. Butt-dyno runs will also be needed to confirm drivability. I'm told by the vendor this doesn't likely fit the DCOE carburetor internally. :'( Currently awaiting email reply after sending measurements of my Weber "trumpets" (velocity stacks) For testing shapes, I like: https://store.jenvey.co.uk/throttle-bodies-and-components/air-horns (they recommend their "40mm stack with a 50mm throttle body" - not quite apples to apples) EDIT - if ITBs were ever in this car's future... it appears Jenvey is a quality vendor choice that I didn't know about http://www.palmside.co.nz/product_cid_10899.html (won't ship to USA???) (I really like the flared shape of these.) https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=1257 (currently awaiting shipping confirmation from vendor) EDIT - I forgot about Techno Toy Tuning! https://technotoytuning.com/nissan/kgc10/velocity-stacks-carbs I like these flares more than the Pegasus stacks, they seem like they would be more helpful at varying velocities of airflow. These are now my favored single purchase. Any other recommendations or considerations out there? In my mind, a given length is best, and a given shape is best. These are not necessarily mutually exclusive. I predict the adjustable length will show a "good performance range" (but not a clear "winner") and choosing various shapes within this range would reveal optimal combination(s) for a given application and intended usage. Again in my case I seek a wide, flat torque curve and not peak HP. Perhaps the data will be clear, but I'm assuming a butt dyno / road test will likely have to confirm / deny the shape winner(s), especially if some combinations are comparable. WOT hp numbers are not what wins an autocross race. If anyone is interested in contributing their 45mm air horn shape to this shared research, please message me. I would be happy to return them to you after chassis dyno testing is complete. It's likely I will only be able to afford one set of air horns to test alongside the issued Weber air horns. Alternatively, air horns, race fuel and dyno time are effing expensive. If anyone is feeling charitable and wishes to donate some coin, that would be appreciated. This project is financed by credit and cash loans; I'm "all-in" with this S30 project. Maybe some others relate? If the adjustables fit, I will find a way to source them and I will intend to pass them on to another racer in our community. Or maybe my engine builder as another thank you. Some say gains won't be made here. Perhaps in peak hp this is overwhelmingly tried and true, but in terms of area under the curve, I defer to Ferrari and other performance companies who have engineered variable length intakes. If it was a gimmick, it wouldn't be on a supercar. We don't have this data publicly available for our L6s. Let's change that. Edited April 18, 2018 by zredbaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted May 7, 2018 Author Share Posted May 7, 2018 (edited) Hey gang. The bad news: Surprise! Dyno dates postponed two weeks to May 18, 2018 due to unforeseen challenges. The short version is that I upgraded my mechanical water pump to an electric water pump, and the EMF (electromagnetic field) was passed through the damper and felt by the crank sensor 8 inches away. The ignition system would spark with the crank at rest and water pump running, so starting was impossible. The solution was to upgrade the magnetic pickup to a powered hall effect mag sensor, which doesn't get fooled by ambient signals as easily. The abridged long version is a two week saga with Electromotive (A++ field support!), in the end sending me two hall effect sensors and a jumper for the computer module that didn't work. I sent them my unit, they opened it up and upgraded the hardware to allow for hall effect sensors and sent it back to me, but it still didn't work. They ultimately sent me a loaner ignition module that fired right up. Evidently my early-model XDI had an onboard logic chip that was only a part of the early serial numbers of the XDI. This is actually my third Electromotive module, having owned the HPV-1 and HPV-X in the past. I'm very loyal to their technology and product, especially after their A++ service these two weeks! They may or may not have overnighted the loaner unit to me on a Saturday, and called me proactively on that weekend. Wow! (I mention this not to suggest others should expect the same level of service, but to remove any doubt as to the reliability of their products-- follow through in the field is how they ensure their technology is reliable. It "should" have been different and they wanted to figure out why! They did. Also: very, very few customers have the early unit I do.) Pics show green and white jumper attempts, the proper hall effect mag sensor, the new loaner XDI module, and the electric pump. The good news: I have SIX SETS of venturis, OH MY! My plan of attack, at Kaizenspeed's dyno, on 5/18/18: Ambitious, as always! Run 40mm venturis (chokes) for all runs When possible, run the same jets... and use the changes in A/F ratio as "apples to apples" O2 availability for combustion comparison. (As time allows, main jetting changes as well... allowing "apples to apples" HP comparison.) Insert sleeves Aftermarket air horns do not slide into the carburetor body. Sleeves are 1mm thick, which is a 2mm difference in ID. The carb body is 50mm OD, expecting the sleeve to be inserted. The Weber sleeves are 48mm ID The Pegasus airhorns are exactly 48mm ID The issue: Without sleeves... diameter goes from 48mm to 50mm (square edge!) and then 50mm back to 48mm (square edge!) Sleeves vs. no sleeves will likely matter. The R&D: My first two velocity stacks will be the Weber long and Weber short Whichever performs less well will be taken a machine shop down the road that morning and cut flush, retaining the sleeves and ditching the velocity stack. Machinist time is prescheduled, and I have a friend as a "runner." This will then be paired with all external aftermarket stacks, same dyno same day. As time allows, I will also compare with and without sleeve for a couple of stacks. Butt-dyno / driveability confirmation Top 2 or 3 also be road tested to confirm mid-throttle torque performance WOT isn't what I am after, in the end. Later this summer, at my engine builder's chassis dyno, timeframe TBD: Compare (top 2?) air horns inside an airbox (still working on my frankenbox, but making progress as I have commissioned some pieces that will be ready this week) Compare 38mm and 40mm venturis -- confirm theories about torque Possibly compare one last air horn design, a stubby shape, also inside the air box. My theories: Aftermarket stacks with sleeves will outperform aftermarket stacks without sleeves. Air horns with sufficient conical shapes ("ram tubes") will accelerate the air enough that "small" venturis/chokes will no longer be necessary to retain low RPM torque. (I have been running 38mm chokes for low RPM torque and drivability.) With different stacks, I expect to see various HP and torque gains across the entire RPM band. With the top stacks, I expect to see negligible sacrifice in torque and uncapped peak HP (possibly not confirmed until later, data TBD). Why am I doing this? Without HybridZ, I wouldn't have the car I have today. Without others having pioneered the way, WE wouldn't have the performance we enjoy today. Without open sharing, neither bullet point exists. Big thanks to the donor(s) so to date! If anyone has any advice, thoughts, experience or requests... please speak up! Edited May 8, 2018 by zredbaron spelling; 'plan of attack' details; tact; electromotive parentheses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Your quest is noble but as with any good experiment, you may find it difficult to get proper results without controlling key variables. At the very least, closely monitor oil, coolant, and intake temps. Trans, diff, and wheel bearing temps play into it as well and if it's a rolling drum type dyno, keep an eye on your tire pressures. I hope this dyno shop has a good ventilation system, it's no fun being in a hot, fume-filled dyno room all day. Do a dry run beforehand, practice swapping out whatever you'll be swapping out. Time yourself so you have a clearer expectation of what you'll be able to get done. Things always take longer than they do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zredbaron Posted May 8, 2018 Author Share Posted May 8, 2018 (edited) Thanks Leon, good feedback. Your profile slogan is particularly on cue here. Hah! I've prepared ahead on the swapping parts routine, definitely changed my hardware and tools in the process. Jon M and Joe H can attest that I've learned the swapping parts lesson a couple of times now. Clearly didn't learn the first time. Feeling confident this go-around. Good call on the tire pressures! I likely would not have thought of that. I'll be sure and warm up the drivetrain as I arrive, too. I'll also take a log on temperatures as I am able. I'll print a table. Everything will be with an informed grain of salt; at least it's the same car on the same dyno, same day. Agreed, there will not be enough time. But, I can certainly say there are enough variables that I won't lack for options to follow hp/torque or data collection. I imagine my plan of attack will adapt as the day unfolds. Edited May 8, 2018 by zredbaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradyzq Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 LOL at "things always take longer than they do!" It's so true. Espeically when at the dyno, because you invariably spot something you hadn't thought of, and that can send your plan off the rails. Which is not always a bad thing. It may mean you discover and maybe fix an issue you previously didn't even know was there. So, to add to Leon's good advice, don't be disappointed if all doesn't go to plan (which I think you're already used to, based on the above!!). As long as you walk away with useful data, your dyno day should be considered at least a partial success. AAAAaaaannndddd, you mention that part throttle torque gains are your main goal. I strongly suggest that once you get the car to make clean pulls that you switch to ignition tuning. That's where your part throttle gains will come from. What do you have for measuring load on the Electromotive, TPS or MAP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradyzq Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 And, I'm curious about the EMF issue. Did you happen to try to start the car with the water pump off, and then turn the pump on once the engine was running? If so, was the resulting intereference enough to cause issues? That whole issue seems VERY weird since the ECU shouldn't be firing coils until it knows the engine angle (passes missing teeth on the trigger wheel) and gets to the right angle to fire a pair of coils. On average, this would be a minimum of about 40 teeth counted including a valid missing teeth pair. Seems impossible for an electric water pump to generate an accidental waveform that perfect!! Are you sure the coils weren't being fired accidentally WITHOUT the ECU being involved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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