Lend me a hand on the parental department?

[M1chael]

Guys, i've been looking into Datsun Z cars, specifically Chevy powered Hybrid V8 Zs, since I was 15 years old. I'll be turning 18 this year, and I'm still rolling in a 1996 S-10.

 

I've been working for awhile, but saving money is very hard when you have a minimum wage job and have to nearly all of your income go straight back out for car note and insurance. I've tried explaining to my parents how much I think these cars kick ass, and shown them some of the cheaper ones I've found. Alas both of my parents have their own reasons for changing the subject.

 

My father is a major obstacle, he's loved cars since before he was a teenager. When he turned my age, his first car was a big block '69 Mach 1. He tells me some of the crazy stuff he did when he was a kid, which is likely his main reason for him not wanting me to get such a quick car. He thinks that hybrid projects always turn into messes too. In his experience, he says, they all just turn into a rolling conglameration of backfiring hardware. He says my 20 second S-10 is more than enough car for me.

 

I'll tell you about my mom's annoying behavior later.

 

Do y'all have any advice that would help change my dad's mind? thx in advance.

 

- M1chael

[Tim240z]

I don't know if its wise to even attempt a hybrid project with a low income. Your Dad will likely be correct.

Keep saving until you have a decent paying job, otherwise you will likely be in a constant state of frustration and disappointment.

 

Tim

[CruxGNZ]

I know this isn't what you want to hear, but Tim is right. Follow advice from people that have "been there, done that". Just be patient.

 

!M!

[RPMS]

I agree with Tim and Mat, but not completely. I think you should get a Z car soon, and learn it inside and out. You can wait to begin your conversion for a couple of years.

 

The stock 240Z is an excellent car that is fun to drive, cheap to maintain, inexpensive to purchase, easy to fix, and (barring accidents) will appreciate in value. Gas mileage is probably close to what you're getting in your S-10, and you'll learn valuable skills by repairing it yourself.

 

The only downside to trading out of the S10 is that you lose the cargo capacity of a truck. Even so, you'll be astonished at how much you can stuff into a Z!

 

The conversion process isn't for the inexperienced or the faint of heart. You've got to be prepared to either dump LOTS of cash into it and have someone else do the work, or dump LOTS of effort into doing the swap yourself. It's really not that hard, but it is time consuming, and you'll probably find that you don't want to JUST swap the engine. You'll want better seats, then a better stereo, then coilovers, then new gauges.... It never ends. They aren't moneypits because they break a lot, but because there's so much you can do to them, and most of us have a hard time resisting!

 

Gather all your information (insurance rates, purchase price, value of the car itself, etc.) and see if you can build a convincing argument for owning a Z car. I got my first one at age 23, and I wish I'd owned one sooner!

[blueovalz]

Not what you want to hear, but what if the old man has a valid point?There are two sides to every argument, and experience is hard to debate. Looking back at my life when I was your age, I was still struggling to decide what I wanted to do to earn a living for the rest of my life. A living that would allow me to pay someone to make my " ultimate" car if I chose that route. The goal of having this car can be had tomorrow, or 20 years from now (as in my case), or anytime in between. I never regret not having that 1st hybrid when I left home at age 19, and enjoy my current hybrid more than ever at age 47. What you do in the next 5 years will determine what the rest of your life will be like. Develope yourself, and if the car must be in the immediate future, then use it to your advantage as a tool to learn, and not as a consumer of your limited resources. I think you should take the time to really listen to your Dad and have him explain in detail what he thinks and why he thinks what he does about this matter. You may be surprised in your own response to this.

[wheelman]

I agree with everything said so far. I was 19 when I got my first Z, a 260 and I loved that car. Even though the 260 is the dog of the group it's a very enjoyable car that will surprise you with its speed and handling. Save your money, find a GOOD Z with no rust and then take care of it for a few years before thinking about turning it into a hybrid.

 

If you're struggling with low funds now you won't be able to afford to do a good job on the swap and have a car to drive at the same time. You're also going to find that your insurance rates will go up and they probably aren't cheap for you as it is. You also will want to have money available to start your life separate from your parents, at some point you will move out either to go to school, in the military or just to be away. Do you want to be "Car poor" and be trapped??

 

Listen to your parents and be patient, they aren't trying to ruin your fun but protect you from throwing your money away and/or killing yourself in a car you can't handle.

 

Buying a Hybrid car of any type is always a risky proposition unless you are intimately familiar with it already. You don't know what went into it, how long it's been since parts were replaced, what the exact parts are and how hard it's been driven since being put together. These are high performance cars after all and we build them to be driven and driven hard. Not that they aren't taken care of but you never know.

 

Wheelman

[A. G. Olphart]

I can think of only one exception to Tim's advice; it applies if you live on a farm with a really big machine shed, or your family owns warehouses. Our favorite hybridizing platforms haven't been in production for a long time... if you run across a rust free example/shell in your price range (almost free?), then consider picking it up and stashing it out of the weather for richer times.

This would obviously require parental involvement, which might possibly be forthcoming if you demonstrate an ability to save towards your goal- say 10% or more of your income- on a regular basis. You'll never know unless you communicate.

 

Life runs by more than quickly enough... Hang in there, your situation will change.

[zeeboost]

Let me start by saying that I'm in (or was in) your exact position about a year ago, and I agree with everything said above. I'm currently 19 and going to college, and my daily driver has been my 1997 Ford Ranger. When I was 18, I decided that I was getting sick of driving that slow, boring pickup, so I bought a 280zx and began the hybrid project. A year later, guess what? There has been over $15,000 invested in the car (the car is still primered in the interior is still torn up -- the $15,000 has just been on drivetrain/suspension/braking/etc.), and my Ranger is still my daily driver. The only way that I've been able to afford the car so far is because I've been working ever since I was about 10 (mowing yards and such), and then at 16 I was able to get a real job, and up until 18 I had been saving it all for the right moment. Now I only wish I would've put that into college, because I'm going to be paying back so many student loans.

 

Even though the car is running right now, it's running like crap, and stuff never stops breaking on it. I've had it running (street legal) for about three weeks now, and within that three weeks the clutch slave cylinder (T-56) broke, the engine still needs to be timed and tuned, and just a couple of days ago, one of my ARP wheel studs broke off of my rear passenger wheel. So now the car is on jackstands right now, and I have to order ARP studs again because nobody carries them (I have spacers, so the studs are pretty long). This is going to cost me even more $$$. Oh and did I mention the thing guzzles 93 octane gas like a SOB! That's one thing you don't want right now with the rising prices.

 

I'm already taking five classes this semester, and in order to afford my hybrid, I have to work a job ranging from 30-56 hours a week. Try finding time to work on the car AND study. My grades show it too.

 

This post is not for you to feel sorry for me -- I'm trying to show you all the crap that I have to go through just to own a hybrid. I'm trying to show you how difficult it will be trying to own / maintain one. I agree with above, just get a stock Z for a few years and go from there. If you want a mildly fast car and still want the Z, get a stock turbo ZX. They can be had in good condition for under $2000. There will still be plenty of time to do your hybrid project. If I had to do it all over again, I would've just bought the turbo zx for now, and done a hybrid project later. Good luck.

[M1chael]

I appreciate all of the thoughtful responses, and have taken them all into consideration. For the record, however, I was never looking for a stock Z to eventually do a swap into. I've been searching more for an already achieved hybrid. I have a few hundred saved up, and about two or three times that coming to me some time shortly.

 

Dont' get me wrong, I never blow my paycheck. I save every bit of I can, but that never amounts to much.

 

As far as the work I can do on it goes, so long is nothing as serious as metal shavings falling down the carb happens, I can manage by myself. I have full use (and skill for someone my age) with various stick, mig, and tig welders and a plasma cutter. I've had experience in interior upholstery from my stepdad teaching me to upholster furniture. And my Uncle, who owns a body shop in Houston, says he'll give me a free paintjob if I ever get a car primered down and smoothed out.

 

I understand fully the effects of the 'while i'm at it syndrome', but I generally have pretty good self control. To top that off, I'm a longtime art student and have spent plenty time sketching up how I want my interior to look. I'm fairly confident I can alter what I want how I want with minimul cash (knock on wood). I have no dreams of an expensive sterio, elaborate electronic gizmos, or a 10 second et. I simply yearn for a car that'll catch your eye from a distance, a car that I won't have to abuse and rev to keep going the speed limit, and one that I can occasionally have some fun in.

 

I've taken a couple test rides in stock s30zs before, btw. It's great fun and all, but I've always thought of it as misleading power. It seems like you're going faster than your are. Maybe it's just me, though.

 

Still, don't get me wrong, I can see that most of you have the background to see that I'm headed for financial decline with such a car. But the truth is I don't mind. I'm certainly not what you might consider college material and I've been in a financial slump for as long as I can remember. So I think it's time to stop paying on my 3000 dollar truck, and start looking for a car.

 

I really don't mind keeping the car on the side of the house for several months. That'd give me time to check out everything i want to, and to make absolutely sure about it before I put it on insurance and started driving it. (i checked out insurance already, too. The payment is almost exactly what i pay for both car note and insurance every month. a little less)

 

I'd appreciate it if you could tell me what you think?

 

Thanks,

- Michael

[wheelman]

Michael,

 

It sounds to me like you've already made up your mind and know best because you think you have it all figured out.

 

I already posted what I thought above so I'll keep this short.

 

Don't mortgage your future for a car!!! It's not worth it!!! Don't abandon the idea of continuing your education to quickly, just because you don't consider yourself "College Material" doesn't mean you shouldn't get some type of training. It will only benefit you later and good jobs require some skills that take time to develop.

 

As for buying a Z that has already been Hybridized. Ask yourself why someone who puts enough time into a car to do a good job would sell it at a price you can afford!!!! I know that when mine is complete, if it ever is, I won't sell it unless I'm forced to and then it won't be cheap.

 

My last word will be to again tell you to be patient, the world isn't going to end tomorrow and you're just starting your life. Make sure you have your priorities correct.

 

Wheelman

[Pathogen]

I was in a similar situation to yourself about 1 year ago. I was pouring time/money into a vehicle which I wasnt really interested in. I am also young (18 years old) and my parents had concerns with having a car that was very fast, however most of there concerns were regarding street racing. Several kids I went to high school with, died street racing and I cant tell you the effect that coming to school and sitting beside someone and then them not being there because they decided to push the limits can do to you. Your dad probably did do his share of street racing in his day and is probably just concerned you could end up being one of those now empty seats in school and a statistic for the government.

 

You probably need to think about what you intend to do with the vehicle because if its a daily driver and you have a quick car you will be tempted to mash the loud pedal from time to time. However, When on city streets you need to exercise care and realize it is NOT the place to go fast. Go to the track, get a instructor and learn how to drive the car to your limits, as many skills a instructor tells you are valuable on/off the track. I was taught how to drive by my parents, which is difficult to take constructive critism from, so the instructor giving you tips/advice hold more value not just because they are certified but also because it is someone who you are not familar with.

 

It sounds like you have some good contacts with your uncle and you have some good skills for interior. Remember the three T's (Time, Tools, Talent). You will need all of them or lots of money to pay someone to do the work. While a nice interior is a good thing to have, if your on a budget you may have a hard time wondering why you spent all that money on your interior on a car you cant drive because something broke and you do not have enough money to fix. I also agree with Wheelman, dont rule out post-secondary education as you can do well without post secondary but the facts of the matter are that not to many people with Degrees are making minimum wage and stuggling from pay check to pay check.

 

Also your dad can be correct about a Hybrid car. The Zcar (especially the 240Z) was not engineered to handle the abuse many of us throw through them, and because of this we are constantly forced to upgrade and improve parts. There are many examples of a well engineered Hybrid Z's but a vehicle is a total package. Not to many of us would be comfortable in a 2400lb car with 350HP with 30 year old worn bushings, suspension, brakes, chasis etc.... So while a engine swap is a good way to get more power, the extra power is no good if you can't get it to the ground. There is no way to use self control on the while im at it syndrome, as you start ripping apart your car you may find problems that you didnt even know existed, which means more money. The most imporant thing I would say is if you are seriously interested in a HybridZ and there is no changing your mind. Shop around for one which offers you exactly what you want at the best value, because if worst comes to worst you can always sell it and if you got a good deal on it you should be able to get most of your investment back on it.

[Mikelly]

Interesting... I've got two step sons who see my house, my garage and my toys and ASSume that they should have them as well... At their MUCH younger ages.

 

Michael, Your father probably wouldn't want to have your project sit beside his house and drop his realestate value, and neither would the neighbores... I'd recommend putting the project on the back burner until you have more income, and a place of your own to OWN a project car of any type. My oldest stepson went through a bout of being thrown out of the house by his real father last weekend, primarely because of all the extra car parts he has ammased and hidden in the house... He doesn't respect his father's wishes, and this has caused a huge riff between them. And for once in five years, I've found myself on his father's side, which pisses me off because I don't particularly like to align myself with someone I have no respect for... However, the point is, your parents are steering you away from this project car for a reason... A good reason. THEY don't want to have to deal with YOUR project.

 

Wait until you move out and are on your own, supporting yourself, calling your own shots... It won't be to long of a wait...

 

Oh, and I don't want to hear about your mom's annoying quirks until you are ready to empty you spleen to us about your own little annoying quirks... We all have them... Welcome to growing up!

Mike 8)

[Guest Anonymous]

I was going to reply to this thread but Mike Kelly just said it all.

[M1chael]

Mike, Pathogen: thanks for the opinions. I enjoy reading them from two different views.

 

My dad never really had anything against me keeping it at his house. It would make for the third automobile lawn decoration. And recently he came around, he told me if I keep doing right and work in school for my diploma, he'll help me work on the car. Mind you he still doesn't want me getting a hybrid (for a new reason, he doesn't want me to get a non-original car. For the sake of depreciating value) but he won't stand against me getting a hybrid.

 

However, I still have to raise the money myself. Fine by me, after all payments made, I pocket about 50 bucks every week. Given some time, I'll have the money.

 

And some other good news: i just got accepted to a program at school that'll have me a diploma about 4 months before the rest of my class. And this summer, the local Wyotech recruiter is having a meeting with my parents and me. Wyotech is another bundle of disagreements between my father and me, but that's another story.

[Tim240z]

Listen to what your folks say to you before summarily dismissing it. They have been around for a long time and probably have some very valid points. I wish I had listened to some of the things my folks told me...but I was young and KNEW EVERYTHING!! Some things are best learned the hard way, I suppose!

If you can make a valid enough argument against their suggestions, then OK, but don't be hard headed. Remembeer, they likely want the best for you...most parents do.....

[BillZ260]

Forget about buying the complete conversion, they are difficult to find, can very expensive and you never really know how much love was put into the car unless you put it there yourself.

 

Find a Z, doesn't have to be stock. One that you can afford adn like. Sell the truck, and drive the Z. Drive it till it is ready to die adn by then you should be ina place to swap in a V8, those 6's are good motors.

 

If you are already paying for your vehicle then I think you are ready for a hot rod but you aren't going to get what you want if you don't have the $$. I am getting clost to 30 and I FINALLY have my Z, it took a long time and there were other priorities that came first, but I have it. I am building it and I thin you will miss out on a lot of, er, um...FUN if you didn' build it yourself.

[74_5.0L_Z]

It was many years fom the time that I started wanting a fast, cool car to the time that I actually got one. I tried when I was younger to build / restore a 1965 Mustang Fastback on minimum wage($3.35/hr at the time). After about a year I realized that car restoration/modification takes money.

 

In college, I worked as a mover and I drove a stock 1974 260Z that I kept running using a myriad of junkyard parts. I purchased the car for $800.00 did a cheap driveway paint job, swapped in SUs from an early 240Z, and the shortblock from a 280Z, went through three transmissions.

 

I was at this point making about $10.00/hr and supporting myself and paying for college. I still had very little money for cars though I really enjoyed my old Z and building it using junkyard parts.

 

By the time I graduated, the old Z was dying of cancer (rust), and I was ready to build a real car. I search and found a 1974 260Z with no rust, and promptly built my dream V8 260Z. I am an engineer and can finally halfway afford to play.

 

 

What is my point? Start small. Learn on a stock Z if you want to play. My old Junkyard dog from college ran 14.9 second quarter miles, and was a blast to drive. They are great car to learn to work on. They are very simple and easy to work on. Go to college, and then delve into the expensive part of this hobby. By the way, when the time comes to get a Z make certain that the car is rust-free. You will be dollars ahead if you spend the extra time and money to get a rust-free car.

 

Good luck,

 

Dan McGrath

[M1chael]

Thanks for the further replies. (I got a raise tonight, btw 8) )

 

The search continues for a Z in my price range, be sure to E-mail me if you come accross a prospect plz! M1chael986@hotmail.com

 

I talked to a member on this board about his car back in late december, early january. he said he was leaving for boot camp on jan 6th, and I haven't heard from him since. Perhaps you guys could fill me in? his car:

http://www.pizazzusa.com/280Z.

 

Best part about it was that it's local. That's a perfect example of what condition i'm looking for too. Spots of rust are really something (don't laugh) that i'm LOOKING for. I know that if i can get a rustball, then it'll be cheaper. On top of that, not to sound cocky, but I can delete most of the exterior spots in my school's shop. I also get to use the sheetmetal (of mutliple widths) for free. For all I care about how even the interior is, I'll make an entire new smooth floorboard to replace the normal one even if it doesn't match up w/ the other side. I'm certainly not hoping to restore the car.

 

But back to that 280, if you guys could tell me what you know or think about this guy and his car, I'd be much obliged.

[M1chael]

the link doesn't work for me right off, but if you capitalize the 'Z' in 280z, it seems to work. He says he bought this from a man who dropped the motor and tranny. It also says he owned it back to the early 80's, which i take it may mean that the engine is in the scarab position? To me it looks pretty far back in the bay, but I don't have any real experience w/ the cars.

[Tim240z]

I fixed the link.

The motor is definitely NOT in the Scarab position. The car needs a lot of work, but likely worth the asking price, but look into your emissions rules for your area.