turbobluestreak Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Well I've been board in my 3D modeling class and took some measurements and made up an intake for injected L6's Check it out. JSK you want the prints? tbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 Nice idea and good modelling. Now before you go to production you should verse yourself in intake design theory and do some CFD to see how she flows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zcarsmakemyheadhurt Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 So make me one..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyxius Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 I'm an aerospace engineering student, and I just happen to work at our Engineering Research Center where we do CFD all day long. The model looks fairly simple, and I should be able to do it within a week depending on how clean the model is. (This is trying to work it in with my current work-related project.) How big is the file, and can you convert it to *.iges or *.igs? The only problem I can see is with the tubes. Without having them cast, or mandrel bent, to spec, they could be very hard to reproduce. Not trying to rain on your parade, just making some observations You could have them be straight from the plenum to the ports, but they would enter at strange angles which would cause some turbulent flow. The only other option I see is to make your bells smaller and have them spaced so they are able to go straight in the ports. Again, this won't be as good as your current design as far as flow goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted October 26, 2004 Share Posted October 26, 2004 CFD is only half the battle, wave theory and wave propigation is very important as well. I'd be tempted to do something like this in multiple pieces, out of composite... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyxius Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 For a turbo car, wave propigation isn't such a big deal. Just jam it in. There are calculators for the length and width of runners for NA cars. or are we talking about 2 different things? The composite thing is a good idea. Would have to make sure your resin was petro-resistant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest blusty Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 I'd be tempted to do something like this in multiple pieces, out of composite... thats the exact same thing I was thinking when I first looked at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2slo4u Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Composite or some heat resistant "plastic" would be awesome. Less heat absorption and lighter. As long as the exhaust manifold heat could be kept away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 For a turbo car' date=' wave propigation isn't such a big deal. Just jam it in. There are calculators for the length and width of runners for NA cars. or are we talking about 2 different things? The composite thing is a good idea. Would have to make sure your resin was petro-resistant.[/quote'] Yeah fair enough, but if I was doing this I'd try to make it versatile enough for NA applications as well. The theory still applies to turbo engines... but I guess plenum volume would be the only other variable worth considering strongly. Hrmmmm... full composite intake manifolds.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 the people one this forum range from the most budget happy people to the people that get kicks out of pulling nasa tricks out of thier sleeves. Everything from custom heads, to chop tops, to custom intakes! It's INSANE! You people make me sick. Looks good though. If I could smog it i'd probly buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillZ260 Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 the people one this forum range from the most budget happy people to the people that get kicks out of pulling nasa tricks out of thier sleeves. Everything from custom heads, to chop tops, to custom intakes! It's INSANE! You people make me sick. That's what makes this site SO great! None of us is limited to our imagination because if you can think of it, someone on this board is probably doing it!!!!!!TO A Z Now if we were only in the same town, state, country, or even the same hemisphere.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katman Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 For a turbo car, wave propigation isn't such a big deal. Just jam it in. Not exactly. Wave energy is so much higher than mass airflow that turbo systems aren't immune to reversion or other wave induced calamities. Nothing like running the design through Dynomation I always say... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyxius Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 Not exactly. Wave energy is so much higher than mass airflow that turbo systems aren't immune to reversion or other wave induced calamities. Nothing like running the design through Dynomation I always say... I didn't mean to say they were immune, just meant to say they have a higher tolerance. I have a several hundred dollar engine simulator, and when you tell it the motor is turbo or supercharged, it throws intake manifold calculations 'out the window'. Correct me if i'm wrong, but when you tune a manifold, be it exhaust or intake, you are tuning it to maximize momentum in the air flow so that it will 'push' or 'pull' more air into or out of the cylinders at a certain rpm range while not choking the engine at other rpms. This 'pushing' creates positive pressure in the manifold in certain cases, while the 'pulling' of the exhaust creates a vacuum to suck more air out of the cylinders. From what I understand, you don't want the flow velocities to exceed mach 1, or a shock wave will form killing your flow. Ideally, low velocities in large diameter, short runners provide the most efficient flow but very low momentum at low rpm. This would be good for a high revving motor that needed all the power up top. A small diameter, long runner will build velocity, momentum, and power very quickly at low rpm, but will choke the motor at high rpm. The trick is finding the happy medium. There are calculators and things available to find the length and diameter of ideal runners for an engine, but they assume straight pipes with no bends. Bends reduce the momentum of the flow. Of course, I AM still a student, and I may be way off base. I'm fairly certain most of this is accurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drftn280zxt Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 If I only had my future mechanical engineering degree right now . I need to research this whole straight pipe thing. I'm beginning to understand why its better to have the pipes that come in perpendicular versus, an angle (it all about have equal pressure right?) With angled plenums the first cylinder (closest to the TB) would be getting really high pressure and the farthest one the least amount of pressure (am I correct?). My common sense tell be that having the plenums stick in so far would not be good. Less turbulence! Rather if they flush with the intake (main chamber) that would be most beneficial. I'll have to make it in autocad when I get a chance. Although (a 3D modeler , ex. 3D VIS would be more ideal, but my schools computers only have some other Autodesk modeler that I'm not familiar with) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyxius Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 about the only way to ensure equal flow into all cylinders is to have individual throttle bodies and runners for each cylinder. Some manifold style intakes can come really close. The Z intake isn't that bad, and turbos work to even out the flow some (by providing even, positive pressure in the whole manifold). However, not perfectly by any means. Individual throttle bodies come with their own set of problems. Linkage to open and close them all exactly at the same time would probably be the hardest hurdle. It wouldnt be horrible......maybe....we should be trying to design something like this... should be ultra responsive. you'd still have to have all the air come through a air sensor of some sort...therefore you'd still have to have a plenum of some sort. Maybe something like a reverse header style intake would be better or...you could just have a mass air pressure type sensor hooked into all the runners.....interesting.... i'm rambling now...lol...i'll stop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 ITB's are already available for Z's and they don't use a plenum. You can run them with Electomotive TEC II or III, but I don't know what kind of sensor they use to determine how much air is going into the engine. A plenum would help to draw air at low rpms on an NA, where ITBs and triples tend to have the least effectiveness. I think this is why John C did a custom intake manifold and specifically did not go with ITBs IIRC, but it would be nice if he would jump in to confirm that. I remember him saying VELOCITY about 1000 times last time this was discussed... Just as an aside if ITB's is really where this is leading TWM already makes the TB's and they make a nice airbox that looks like it would make a great plenum, although I don't think the airbox is capable of handling pressure. http://www.twminduction.com/airbox.htm http://www.twminduction.com/ThrottleBody/ThrottleBody2000.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyxius Posted October 27, 2004 Share Posted October 27, 2004 WOW! he wants $3300 for that kit. That's NUTS. You could custom build one for less than $500 probably. with ITBs and turbo, you'd certainly have to have some type of reverse header or airbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 umm, if i wanted a drag quality set up for a track only car i'd pay that price. It seems like they've done thier research and it should perform like a champ. I'd like to see someone make a better produce for $500. Not that i'm saying it can't be done, just not likely. Sure, in supplies you might only spend $500, but i bet by the time it's done you'll we wondering why you started it and wondering how much better it will perform over stock. The rewards are well worth it. Intake design is one of the main keys to long term racing durability. Keeping your airflow stable is important. I personally would just much rather design an intake with better entry. I'll see if i can sketch something out real quick... brb... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 http://gollum.team-kold.com/PortTheory.jpg please, i've had no schooling on engineering. These are all just ideas. And i know, my 10 minute drawing is horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyxius Posted October 28, 2004 Share Posted October 28, 2004 That's for a track car though. We are talking about every day drivers here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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