Mikelly Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 So a couple months back I was looking in my local SCP catalog and saw some monoball assemblies with the steel sleeve (1 3/4inch) and all parts. I ordered some and was playing around with an idea to make my own top mounts that would do away with the rubber isolator and give you an additional 2 inches of travel in the stroke of the strut assembly, in essence, doing away with the need to section the strut. You could actually gain even more, depending on how you position the steel sleeve... However, a couple of questions and an issue or two... Two ways to mount this unit are to either make a bolt in plate the strut assembly could bolt to and then bolt the plate to the tower, similar to the factory design (But more work) OR you could use the sleeve for the monoball assembly (Which is completely servicable with a removable C clip from the underside) inside the strut housing itself, welded into the strut tower, which I'm seriously thinking about doing... What say You??? If I go the plate/ bolt in route, I have fabricated one unit using 16 gage steel for the plate, based on the thickness of the metal on the strut isolator from the factory unit... Think this is thick enough??? I do, but thought I would throw it out there. The other issue is the diameter of the Tokico strut unit itself... the ID of these monoballs that came with the "Kit" is .75 and the strit OD is .80. After talking to Ground Control, I broke out my sander and an abrassive pad and removed some material so the mono ball could sit on one of my struts just fine. Looks a little ruff, but the guys at GC said it would be more than sufficient and directed me to notes in their website where they advise this might be required when using custom top mounts... Question is if any of you know of sources for Metric Sized Spherical rod ends and Heim joints... SO, I've sent Doug some pics to put up, and I'll have more of an idea of how I'm doing this in the coming days, but I'd like feedback on this idea from you guys... My mock up and test fit showed a full two inches of travel was gained on this mock up on a front strut... And I was conservative in mocking it up. I could have gained almost another full inch in the front! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueovalz Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Good project Mike. Could a steel sleeve be used in the rod end if you went one size larger? Also, any research into a thin (e.g. 1/2" or so of rubber isolation to reduce the metal to metal harshness for those of us considering this part for the street? I suppose a 1/4" rubber sheet could be used (just off the top of my head). In regards to the 16 gage steel sheet; sounds too thin, but I overbuild everything I do. Any photos of what you've come up with yet? BTW, I like the bolt-in idea. Once welded, that's it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synlubes Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Haven`t received any pics Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 17, 2004 Author Share Posted November 17, 2004 Man that sucks... I sent 12 of them night before last. DAMN! I'll send some MORE this evening... Mike 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillZ260 Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 So we would be able to do this all around the car not just front? Or will we still need to section rear struts if we want to be lowered and keep full travel? Sounds interesting, can't wait to see pics... BTW, I need to see pics to know what the heck you all are talking about. I am a very visual/hands on learner... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 17, 2004 Author Share Posted November 17, 2004 Bill, you would be able to do this at every corner... A monoball is a heim joint with out the threaded section. The ball sits in a race, and that assembly slides into a sleeve to be welded into place... Pics will be up soon enough...About 6 hours... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tannji Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 I was going to set this topic to be watched, or whatever its called.... but I cant figure out how... so, I want to see those pics also, very interesting idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 http://www.photobucket.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Question is if any of you know of sources for Metric Sized Spherical rod ends and Heim joints... http://www.astbearings.com/AST.php Mike, What are you going to do about the rotation needs of the front struts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 17, 2004 Author Share Posted November 17, 2004 John I was "ASS"uming the monoball would be sufficient since it is a bearing and seems to rotate just fine with the load... I was thinking of tapping a fitting so I could keep the race greased... Ideas? mike 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 The loads from the shock are about all the monoball can take and you can use a "C" clip to hold the monoball in place from below. The upper spring perch should have a bearing between it and the top plate. A thrust needle bearing like this works well: http://www.timken.com/industries/torrington/products/needle/thrust.asp And run a Teflon monoball so you never have to worry about lube. Also, make sure the monoball is a secure fit (in all three directions) or it can get pounded pretty bad. EDIT: Deleted an ad... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Mike, I haven't heard any mention of camber plates yet, but that is basically what you're making. There really isn't a lot to the camber plates that are available. Look at AZC's, it is really close to what you're describing, with the weld in piece of steel, etc. I know installing my Ground Control "roadrace" plates my car lost ~1.5" of ride height. With respect to Terry's idea about 1/4" piece of rubber, I can say that with a reasonable spring rate and Illuminas on 1 I don't feel that they are excessively harsh for street use without any insulators at all. If you were running 400 in/lb springs with Konis might be a different story... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 17, 2004 Author Share Posted November 17, 2004 Jon, Yup Been there done that... I'm basically making something because I don't need the upper adjustment (Although I suppose it would be nice) since I have adjustable lower units... I may end up with a camber plate in the end anyway! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drax240z Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 Question is if any of you know of sources for Metric Sized Spherical rod ends and Heim joints... Try Aurora Bearing, they've always been able to get me metric stuff no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 17, 2004 Share Posted November 17, 2004 One more thing Mike. I'd go big on the monoball then use a spacer to fit the strut. The stock 240Z strut would take a 10mm (I think) monoball, but I sure wouldn't trust a tiny 10mm monoball to handle the loads at the top of the strut. 5/8" is what most (all?) of the aftermarket plates for Datsuns use. I wouldn't go smaller than that, so basically it boils down to a question of whether your sleeves that fit in the monoball to take up the space go from metric OD to metric ID or whether they are SAE OD and metric ID. I'd just stick with SAE stuff to keep costs down and use a 5/8" or if you want bigger and stronger a 3/4" monoball, but that's just me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted November 17, 2004 Author Share Posted November 17, 2004 The unit I have is a 3/4 monoball... I've just gotten home and I'll try to get some pics up... Mike 8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synlubes Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Pics can be viewed by using the "Z Pics & Stuff" link in my sig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 OK, maybe I'm just being dense or something, but why would you go through all that hassle when you can just buy camber plates and you also get the adjustability in addition to lowering the car and getting rid of the huge rubber insulators? Seems like you guys are reinventing the wheel here. The camber plate kit has a total height of 1 1/8" from the bottom of the spring perch to the top of the camber plate. I don't think you're going to get a whole heck of a lot shorter than that even if you make your own. The upper spring perch also has the needle bearings that John mentioned before, and I think that is a pretty important part of the whole assy. If you don't have the separate needle bearing then you're relying on the monoball to take the load from the suspension and the twisting load as well, and monoballs really aren't meant to spin in their races like that. EDIT-- yes they are designed for that. Thinking of a rod end used in a control arm, and it spins just fine. What the hell am I thinking? Still, asking the bearing to spin with a huge sideload might be asking too much. The needle bearing definitely spins easier... How much time are you going to spend designing this thing and machining it, when you could have just bought a camber plate and been done with it. I understand some people like to do it for the experience, or the joy of making something, but this seems like a big waste of time and energy to me... or am I missing something??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gramercyjam Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Is what you are thinking of like these? http://sth2.com/Z-car/shocks.htm I've got his old front set that were made for tokicos. They work great. No camber adjustability in them though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPMS Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Forgive my ignorance in all this, but won't removing all the rubber from the top of the strut put undue stress on the shock towers? I've heard people talking about them stress fracturing on hard-driven cars. Is this a concern? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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