datsunlover Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 I'm a little confused now.. I took the head of my 75, and there's a cam oiler/spray bar in there. Now, I sent the other head I had (suposedly from a 76) to my engine builder first, and he's orderd the new cam from colt cams (in BC) but I'm wondering now.. will I have to use the cam towers from my 75 and run the spray bar? Or.. will the new cam be good to go in the 76 head/towers without the spray bar? Both heads are N42 BTW. Also.. perhaps I'm wrong, but I thought they did away with the spray bar in 75.. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briann510 Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 go with internal cam oiling and the spray bar both if you can. thats what we did on our stroker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zcarnut Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Nissan went away from the external cam oiler on the L28 heads starting in Feb of 1977 (2/77). All of the aftermarket cams I have seen are internally drilled for oiling (i.e., no external cam tube needed). To use a internally drilled cam (like an aftermarket one) in a head that had an external oil rail you _must_ plug up the holes (passages) in the cam towers that fed the external oil rail. What I do is to tap the holes with a 6mm x 1.0mm tap and them use a short screw to plug the hole. However, Nissan Motorsports recommends using the external cam oiling rail with any cam (better oiling). To accomplish this with a cam that is internally drilled requires plugging the feel holes in the cam with epoxy (e.g., JB Weld). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted February 15, 2005 Author Share Posted February 15, 2005 Nissan went away from the external cam oiler on the L28 heads starting in Feb of 1977 (2/77). All of the aftermarket cams I have seen are internally drilled for oiling (i.e.' date=' no external cam tube needed). To use a internally drilled cam (like an aftermarket one) in a head that had an external oil rail you _must_ plug up the holes (passages) in the cam towers that fed the external oil rail. What I do is to tap the holes with a 6mm x 1.0mm tap and them use a short screw to plug the hole. However, Nissan Motorsports recommends using the external cam oiling rail with any cam (better oiling). To accomplish this with a cam that is internally drilled requires plugging the feel holes in the cam with epoxy (e.g., JB Weld).[/quote'] Hmmm.. so it would seam I have an N42 that is NEWER than 77, (the one I sent to my engine builder first, the one I want to use, that has no provisions for a spray bar) and the stock 75 N42 from my 280z, with the oiler.. So is it not safe/recomended to use the spray bar AND internal oiling (if provided in the new cam)? The way I'm thinking it couldn't 'hurt' anything to have lots of oil in there.. but.. ?? I have to find out if the new cam is going to be driled or solid.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zcarnut Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 I’ve never heard of any reputable Nissan engine re-builder recommend using the external cam oiler along with an internally oiled cam. My guess is that the external oil tube would be almost worthless with an internally drilled cam because of the lack of oil pressure in the tube. The internally drilled cam is a significant “oil leak”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COZY Z COLE Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 You might look at this link..... http://www.sonic.net/~kyle/buildup.html It gives the following breakdown for heads....E-31.. 70-71 240Z, E-88.. 72-74 240Z & 260Z, N-42.. 75-76 280Z, N-47 & P-79..77-83 280Z & 280ZX. LARRY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briann510 Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Zcarnut: Rebello Racing and SunBelt both use the external cam oiler along with an internally oiled cam on ALL of their performance engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayZee Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 I bought a ZX once that supposedly needed a new cam (was messed up or worn out) Before I even saw it I was like (I've never heard of a cam in a Z wearing out before, wtf??? ) The car was in decent shape so I bought it anyway, took it home to find that the reason the cam was screwed was because somebody had replaced the cam (with a old one with no oil holes) and seeing it was a 79zx.. it didn't have a external oiler. So basically it was getting no oil at all!! I would be careful about running both systems though.. I would be worried about a pressure drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preith Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 To use a internally drilled cam (like an aftermarket one) in a head that had an external oil rail you _must_ plug up the holes (passages) in the cam towers that fed the external oil rail. What I do is to tap the holes with a 6mm x 1.0mm tap and them use a short screw to plug the hole. MSA sells nice little oil bar block off plates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted February 15, 2005 Author Share Posted February 15, 2005 Soo... in theory, if I used a high volume oip pump (for a turbo ZX maybe?) would that enable me to use both the spray bar AND internay oil'd cam? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayZee Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Soo... in theory, if I used a high volume oip pump (for a turbo ZX maybe?) would that enable me to use both the spray bar AND internay oil'd cam? In theory.. perhaps, I'd run a good mechanical oil pressure gauge for sure. I really don't see the need, I mean really.. anyone ever hear of a L series camshaft failing? (with EITHER oiling system) Even the one I talked about earlier ran fine when I poured half a liter of oil on the shaft. Of course I changed it and the cam towers anyway (I had a few Z heads laying around at the time) If I had to choose, I'd go with the oil spray bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zcarnut Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 Zcarnut: Rebello Racing and SunBelt both use the external cam oiler along with an internally oiled cam on ALL of their performance engines. I stand corrected! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briann510 Posted February 15, 2005 Share Posted February 15, 2005 i think using both is a little overkill, but it depends how the car is going to be driven also. if i was going to do one or the other id probably use the spray bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
datsunlover Posted February 16, 2005 Author Share Posted February 16, 2005 Ok, that's what I was coming to.. Here's the thing.. I've been told it's not a good idea to use cam towers from a difrent head.. is there truth in this? Reasoning; The newer head (with out spray bar) is in a lot better overall shape than the stock head (with spray bar) originaly on my car. What I'd like to do is put the cam towers with the spray bar holes on the newer/better condition head.. unless that is asking for trouble.. See, I'm puting in a $275 cam and really don't want to smoke it in the first week I get the thing running.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrayZee Posted February 16, 2005 Share Posted February 16, 2005 Ok, that's what I was coming to.. Here's the thing.. I've been told it's not a good idea to use cam towers from a difrent head.. is there truth in this? Reasoning; The newer head (with out spray bar) is in a lot better overall shape than the stock head (with spray bar) originaly on my car. What I'd like to do is put the cam towers with the spray bar holes on the newer/better condition head.. unless that is asking for trouble.. See, I'm puting in a $275 cam and really don't want to smoke it in the first week I get the thing running.. I can't comment on if it is a good idea or not, but I can say that I did it and had absolutly no problems from it. If you do it make VERY sure that it is torqued down EVENLY once you are done the cam should turn completely free and no binding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifton Posted February 17, 2005 Share Posted February 17, 2005 I've only used internally oiled cams with no spray bar and have never had any problems. Modern cars do not use spray bars either, atleast none that I have seen. Scrap the spray bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briann510 Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 yea scrap the spray bar.. thats what all the datsun race engine builders do....NOT its all personal preference. since i have 10K in my engine ill oil it both ways thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 Nissan's Prep Manual had the cam oiling orifice in the block enlarged to 2mm for more oil flow to the top end. I have always used Turbo Pumps, and have never paid much attention to the cam oiling. If it has a spraybar, it gets a new one, or at minimum gets cleaned. If it's internal, it stays that way. I have assembled a few engines with both, and have not noted an oil starvation problems. The reason Nissan went AWAY from the spraybar was because of Sludge Formation problems that ended up plugging the outer spray holes. I have seen this on several occasions. But having an internally oiled camand the bar should not be a problem given adequate flow and proper bearing clearances in the rest of the engine. I mean, how many people have retrofitted piston oil sprayers to the engine? If I was doing THAT, I might go only with the internally oiled cam, and plug the oil spraybar. The spraybar can fail and waste your cam, I would not depend on it exclusively for lubrication of the top end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted February 18, 2005 Share Posted February 18, 2005 From How to Modify: For racing applications, spray-bar lubrication is superior to direct oiling. Sure you can have sludge plug up the spray bar. But you won't have that problem if the oil is changed regularly. Direct oiling isn't foolproof either. I think Dan Baldwin had a Schneider cam failure on his direct oiled cam, I'm surprised he hasn't shared his experience. I wouldn't hesitate to run both. As Tony points out there are only 2 TINY holes that feed the valvetrain. Open up the holes a bit and there should be plenty of capacity for both setups to run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Yes, I didn't mean to suggest Nissan went away from a bad design. it's just the design was not "customer proof" in the real world! LOL Seems there are people who believe "changing the oil" consists of putting in another quart of "Quaker Maid SA Grade Premium Re-Refined Oil" from the 7-11 when the stick shows it's a quart low. I had an L26 we pulled out of a Cedric once. When it started there was a persistend "Squeak squeak squeak" that we had never heard. Pulled the valve cover to find the #1 cam lobe almost TOTALLY flat. When we restarted it, oil was flowing out of the intake and exhaust squirters on cyls 2,3,4,&5, but only one of the squirters suplying the lobes to #1 & #6. Black Sludge all over inside, terribly messy. But for $7US for the whole engine (because, we argued with the vendor at the time "it's making a bad noise!), what can I say? We bought another head off an LPG powered car for $5 swapped it on, flushed everything out with PD680 in the shop's heated, air agitated solvent tank (ahhh working for the government!) and ran it. As far as I know, it's still powering the same Fairlady Z out in Chandler AZ to this day! I digress... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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