MIG vs. TIG

[Cruez]

SMAW, I think its regular stick welding..

[AK-Z]

SMAW= Shielded Metal Arc Welding. Sitck/Arc welding.

[MusPuppis]

Is 25amps low enough for a MIG to do bodywork? Is'nt there some sort of spray on stuff you can use to improve the finish of non-gas MIG welds?

It is, but you have to remember that Flux burns hotter. When welding thin metals with MIG you REALLY need gas. I have a little Lincoln 100 weld-pak thingy I use and really enjoy, but I'm running flux. Ive been doing alot of body work on my Z, replacing rusted sections and such and lemme tell ya.. It aint no picnic. I can lay good beads on 16g but any thinner and I run into problems. On the Z metal (22g?) its impossible with flux. Someone running a high-end machine could probably pull it off, but if you have a high-end machine you should have gas anyway. I can barely even tack the Z metal, heh.

 

Its such a wretched pain I've put all work on hold until after Christmas when I have the money to go ahead and upgrade to gas and run some solid wire.

 

Thats not to say Flux doesnt have its place. As the flux burns it often breaks up and carrys contaminates away from the weld puddle.. Which is helpful when welding dirty or rusty metals that cant for whatever reason, be prepped properly. It also helps with penetration on thicker metals due to the increased heat. Useful when your welding in the upper limits of your machine and need some extra "umph".

 

As to dressing the welds, a flap-disc will do wonders for the appearance of Flux welds, lol. A slag hammer to knock the crap off, hit em with a flap disc and they dont look half bad. I'll see about getting some pics of my "dressed" coupons.

 

Something else I'd like to add -

 

If your in the market for a welder, *DONT CHEAP OUT*. Stick with the big boys. Esab, Lincoln, Hobart/Miller and Thermal Arc. HF welders are **** and I wouldnt trust one as far as I could throw it. I've had the displeasure of welding with one. I coldnt tell you the unit as its been a while.. But man. The arc was hard and angry, the machine just isnt quality. My Lincoln - for its size and price - has a softer, more managable arc and I really enjoy using it. The general consensus when buying a machine is "Bigger is better" and it really is true. Get the largest machine you can possible fit into your budget. Shopping around is your friend as well. You can save ALOT of money.

 

I screwed myself by buying my Lincoln too early. I paid something like 380$ for it or somesuch at Lowes. It didnt come gas ready, but can be upgraded (beware, some small units CANT be upgraded to gas). The next-in-line welder that was gas ready was (I beleive.. its been a little bit) about 450$. Lincoln 125 I beleive. Since I have to upgrade to gas now, I have to buy the kit for my welder, which is 100$, putting my cost at 480+ tax on the kit. So closing in on 500$. If I had just waited a little longer I could have got a machine that was 25amps stronger than mine, came with a slightly better gun and came gas ready from the get-go. Not to mention the little "kit" it came with had a better hood than mine, lol.

 

Another thing to consider when buying a MIG unit (well, any welder that uses gas) is the gas itself. Getting a bottle can be expensive and tricky. Some gas suppliers wont honor leases through other suppliers - so beware. Some suppliers also wont fill *any* bottle they didnt sell, rent or lease you personally. This is annoying and costly - as they tend to charge a little more than online prices. My advice would be to talk to local welding shops and gas suppliers before buying your welder, just so you know where to go and what to expect. See what they will and wont do for you and what kind of prices to expect. Would suck to buy a bottle through supplier A when supplier B wont honor the bottle but charges less for gas. Calling local welding shops is helpful as well they can point you to a good supplier. Expect to lay out somewhere to the tune of 150$ to get a bottle and get it filled. You sometimes work out lease agreements for more money upfront, but that will save you time, money and hassle down the road. Its all up to you intended use and pocket book.

 

Bottle size is also important. For the average hobby welder, you dont need an 80cf tank, 40 or 60 will work fine - the gas lasts a good while.

 

As to the folks talking about TIG units.. Some machines will come in under 1000$. 500$ even but these machines usually do NOT include the gas equipment/torch/foot pedal. So it adds up quick. The 500$ machine ends up closing in on 1000$ by the time you buy everything you need to make it work.

 

I dont know what your budget looks like but this sucker is about the best bang for your buck in the mid-range TIG market. Someday I'll be buying that sucker. Someday. Anyone need a kidney? Lung? Non smoker! I dont drink much! C'mon..

 

http://www.weldingsuppliesfromioc.com

 

That link is one of the BEST suppliers I have found anywhere. Free shipping, fantastic prices, excellent poeple to deal with.

[Mikelly]

I think I paid $580 for my LIncoln Mig SP125. It is about as small a machine as you want to weld thin to thick metal. I can weld 20gage sheet metal and over 1/4 inch metal. It does good exhaust welds, as well as roll bar tubing and flat stock steel.

 

Of course I use 75/25 Argon and I always keep two bottles on hand. I need to break out my Torch and play with brazing... Not done that in a while...

Mike

[Cruez]

What about this TIG unit... Its DC only though... how often do you need AC ?

 

http://www.thermadyne.com/evolution/productLiterature.asp?mernbr=1&div=tai&catnbr=99&subcatnbr=109&pdtnbr=455

[MusPuppis]

What did your bottles cost you and what size are they? Did you lease, buy or rent?

 

I need an O/A rig.. and I need to learn to use it, lol. I've spent a disgusting amount of time researching the hell out of welding processes and equipment but the only thing I've had any experience with thus far (other than cutting a Civic into about 50 peices with an O/A) is my Lincoln and Miller 125.

[AK-Z]

What did your bottles cost you and what size are they? Did you lease' date=' buy or rent?

 

I need an O/A rig.. and I need to learn to use it, lol. I've spent a disgusting amount of time researching the hell out of welding processes and equipment but the only thing I've had any experience with thus far (other than cutting a Civic into about 50 peices with an O/A) is my Lincoln and Miller 125.[/quote']

 

I can't tell you how much I got mine for because my dad gave me his welding equip. But to refill a a tank is like $100 (for O/A)per tank, thats pretty good concidering how long that will last ya. For Up here in Anchorage Alaska, the places that will refill it for you, you HAVE TO transport both tanks outside of the vehicle (not inside a passenger area) or else thay won't even touch them and tell you to leave. You can load them in the bed of a pickup (upright) or on a trailer, but loading them in the back seat is just stupid. Reason being the Oxy tank is under exteme preasure even though it would need a refill, the Ace tank is highly volitile and if the valve body were to ever break can cause an explosion.

 

For the Oxy tank, once you get it home you can use it right away, after refilling the acetolene tank and getting it home you need to wait a while before you can use it. Acetolene is highly volitile and can only be held under preasure in acetone, the acetone needs to settle before you can use it or it can damage valves and O rings, which is even more of a hazard.

 

O/A welding is alot like TIG but its easier to have contamination and the heat affects a larger area. Just putting metal together is easy with TIG, but laying down a good bead is hard. I have to spend like a hour laying beads on some scrap before I can weld what I was working on (I don't weld with TIG to often), and titanium is a pain to weld correctly, Titanium becomes magnetic when running a current through it in such as a way as TIG welding, so it draws your titanium filler rod in when yo don't want it to.

[AK-Z]

What about this TIG unit... Its DC only though... how often do you need AC ?

 

http://www.thermadyne.com/evolution/productLiterature.asp?mernbr=1&div=tai&catnbr=99&subcatnbr=109&pdtnbr=455

 

A decent welder can cost you about $1500. I'm sure you can find one for cheaper from gov auctions or companies closing down and wanting to sell there equip. Be sure to get a single phase welder or you won't be able to weld at home (inless you live in an industrial area with a 3 phase power grid).

[boodlefoof]

To those contemplating the purchase of a MIG welder...

 

This past summer I finally bought a welder for myself and I went with a MIG. Mostly because I already had some experience with a MIG.

 

I looked at, and "test drove" a lot of welders before committing to a purchase. In the end I decided on a Millermatic 175, which is just a wonderful machine. I got it on sale at a local supply house for $600 with a cart. Then add bottle and helmet... up to around $750.

 

When I "test drove" the welders, I was amazed by the huge difference in quality of performance. Some of the cheaper ones don't strike an arc well, and of course they have limited adjustability.

 

Towards the middle of my search, I was torn between the Lincoln SP-135 and the Millermatic 135. Both are very user friendly and weld well. They have the power to do up to 1/8'' very well and can weld the thinnest of sheetmetal (they have infinite voltage adjustability). I was leaning towards the Miller due to some reports of bad customer service at Lincoln.

 

But in the end... I tried the Millermatic 175, a 230v machine. I knew I would be doing some frame work in the future, and this thing had the power to weld some really heavy stuff... yet I can still do 24 ga. sheet metal! Only downside, it required doing some wiring at the house to put a 230v outlet in the garage.

 

Basic moral of the story - infinite voltage adjustability in a 230v machine strikes me as being the best of both worlds.

[tube80z]

From "Mr. TIG" (http://www.tigdepot.com[/url']):

 

Has anyone hear used the flexible TIG torch? It looked interested and I was hoping for a review.

 

Cary

[johnc]

All my torches have a flexible neck. Very handy. Also, a straight (pencil) neck torch has come in very handy on a few occaisions. I did buy a remote, torch handle mounted amptrol and that proved to be a complete waste of money.

[AK-Z]

When buying a MIG stay away from no name brands and department store (sears) always get name brand (Miller, Lincoln, Hobart). And aleays make sure that is upgradable to gas, so you don't have to buy another MIG welder.

[BrandonsZ]

But I surely would never regret it, I did regret it about when the credit card bill showed up, but MAN what a pleasure to run and so nice. Now I prepair the welds correctly, take off the paint scale etc, but when I was practicing I welded straight through paint, scale, RUST, and grease just like it was flux! It just boiled off. Of course the weld strength will be adversly effected by such practices, in a pinch it'll still hold stuff together.

 

After welding up the exhaust on my Z, I have used the welder about once a month since, I can fix anything and it's a real nice thing to have, even if you don't need it.

 

There is one drawback however:

 

1. My father-in-law wants me to fix his aluminum rack.

2. My wife says I can "make" her a fireplace screen.

3. Friends think "I'll buy you a beer" is adequate payment for fixing their cracked exhausts.

[johnc]

Easy solutions to each:

 

1. My father-in-law wants me to fix his aluminum rack.

 

Get it nice and hot and then ask him to grad hold and give it a good hard pull to test the strength. Most people forget that aluminum doesn't "glow" when hot.

 

2. My wife says I can "make" her a fireplace screen.

 

Make one that looks like a boiler intake screen from the USS Missouri. Paint it battleship grey.

 

3. Friends think "I'll buy you a beer" is adequate payment for fixing their cracked exhausts.

 

Drink all the beer first before fixing their exhaust. Throw up on their exhaust pipe when you're done.

[MusPuppis]

. But to refill a a tank is like $100

 

 

Wow.. Maybe I misunderstood the guy I talked to at Airgas but down here (ky) I called and to fill a 60cf it was like 35$ or something.

[randy 77zt]

i have had a thermalarc 180 amp mig machine for about 5 years.it takes 220 volt to run and runs gas shielding.great welder.i assembled a skid plate for a buddies jeep and he was surprised i could weld for more than 5 minutes with out overheating.i bought an old boat trailer and converted it to a trailer for my z and the welder always had the horsepower i needed.but tonight i am loading it with aluminum wire and %100 argon to practice on some scraps with.i need to finish my intercooler install.tried last week but needed a new liner-wire jammed up.

[Guest ON3GO]

John... i know your on a whole different level then me, but i thought i would ask.

whats a good TIG to learn and start off with. even something good and affordable that i wont have to upgrade to a better machine.

i just wanna learn even more, and start making things like nice nice intercooler piping, fmic end tanks, exhausts, custom intake manifold and turbo manifolds.

but also small stuff like -AN bungs/fittings on catch cans and etc.

 

thanks!

 

mike

[260DET]

I'm looking at getting an Italian SIP gas/gasless, 25-150amps with six settings, similar but not the same as this one here http://www.welduk.com/Details.asp?ProductID=246

[Jolane]

ON3Go,

For a good TIG unit at a reasonable price, that will do what you want, look towards the ThermalArc 185TSW. Ready to weld less filler and gas is under $1700, inverter, 220V, very small and light, and very well liked by many.

 

Everyone looking into welding, do some research at the following sites (just thought this might be helpful):

http://www.millermotorsports.com/mboard/

http://www.hobartwelders.com/mboard/

 

They both are very helpful, and have a lot of good information.

 

Personally, I started with a Lincoln HD3200 Mig (110V unit). I did most of my bodywork and rust repair with this machine, .023" wire, and C25 gas. It works great, with a nice small gun for getting into tight places. I also have a Miller Dynasty 200DX TIG that I use a lot. It is a blast, and I find places to use it on the car (more structural stuff, suspension, engine mounts, etc). I then got a Millermatic 210 MIG (with spoolgun for alum), and this is now my primary car fabrication machine (.030", C25). It has a great low end arc, and will also lay down awesome beads on heavier metal (truck suspension parts, etc). For anything this machine will not do, I will revert back to the D200DX and stick weld. I do also have O/A setup for bending mostly, as my Miller Spectrum 625 Plasma does most of the other cutting not done mechanically. I have worked my way up from MIG to TIG, and feel that this is the way most people should also do it. MIG is so nice to use, and would work for nearly everything on a typical hybridz project. The 110V unit I had, with gas, would have been plenty for just the Z. Note though, that after buying the machine, you still need a helmet (Miller Big Window Elite is very nice, and so is the Jackson EQC, personal experience with both), wire, consumables, gas bottle and gas, possible home wiring, gloves, and other safety equipment like a fire extinguisher. The costs can quickly add up for MIG. TIG is no exception though, and is generally MUCH more than MIG.

 

Good luck with any decisions on welding equipment. BTW, the Hobart Handlers get great reviews also. They tend to be a little less costly than the Miller's, an quite often can be found on sale somewhere (Tractor Supply comes to mind).

 

Joshua

[AK-Z]

Wow.. Maybe I misunderstood the guy I talked to at Airgas but down here (ky) I called and to fill a 60cf it was like 35$ or something.

 

I have have larger size tanks that you normally wouldn't get for personal use, plus shippment of equip and supplies to alaska raises cost.

 

edit: Oxy is cheaper than Acetonlene.