Forrest Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Move out if you value your right to defend your life. If I were you, I would research is what the actual penalty is for carrying concealed without a permit. In some states it is a very minor offense. Then weigh the risk and consequences of being caught and arrested against the risk and consequences of being defenseless against a murderer or robber. Easy choice for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Here’s a similar, though somewhat more benign situation…. A couple of years ago, on one of our semi-regular drives from Dayton, Ohio to Washington, D.C., my wife and I made a stop at a rest area in western Maryland. It’s the first rest area upon crossing the West Virginia/Maryland border, eastbound on I-68 into Maryland. Returning to our car and driving down the ramp back onto the highway, I noticed a car with its high-beams on, driving directly towards us – thus, the wrong way! Then the lights flashed – it was a cop. So naturally I stopped. Then, in the proverbial seemingly out of nowhere, another cop pulled up behind us, boxing us in. I tried to sit calmly, engine off, hands on the steering wheel. From the rear cruiser comes a voice on the intercom: “Step outside of the car, slowly, with your hands where I can see themâ€. I’m not making this up! So of course I complied. The rear cop walks up to me, pats me down, then starts shining a flashlight into the car. He notices my wife - she’s short, has dark hair, and was evidently not visible from behind the car (this was late at night) – and orders her to get out too. The cop from the cruiser parked in front of us then gets out, walking with a somewhat asymmetric posture. Before I even formed the question of why his right arm is behind him, he says, “I have a shotgun, so please keep stillâ€. At this point the situation seemed so surreal that it felt completely comical; scary, indeed – but so weird as to be comical. I mustered the courage to ask, “would you mind explaining to me what’s going on?†The first cop, who has been orbiting our car with his flashlight, said that they received a tip that a bearded man wearing a black jacket was prowling around the rest area brandishing a rifle. Feeling self-righteous, I calmly informed the cops that they’re welcome to search our car. The shotgun-carrying cop says: “Sir, we don’t need your permission, we’re going to search your car regardlessâ€. And so they did. And then they searched my wife’s purse (how does one conceal a rifle inside a purse?). And of course they found nothing, because at the time we owned no firearms. Then, never losing their peremptory haughtiness, they remarked, “you’re free to goâ€. I don’t recall them even having checked my driver’s license! Questions for the lawyers… 1. On what grounds did the cops have a right to treat us in this manner? Or to search our car? 2. Suppose that I did have a rifle – let’s say unloaded, and in the trunk – if that were the case, would I have gotten arrested? Or otherwise harassed? 3. If, for the sake of argument, the cops acted properly in pursuing a suspect (I have a beard and I was wearing a black jacket), what right did they have to search my wife’s purse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240ZR Posted February 2, 2006 Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 Legally? probably none...... then again...... they where looking for drugs..... Like johnc said... It would mess me up bad right now.... I leave for the Army in 20 days..... once i am in the Army... I doubt any cop will write me up for carrying a gun in my car.... In fact I believe i am out of his jurisdiction as a Federal employee at that point..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vashonz Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 You're gonna want to check on being exempt on firearm laws. My experience is that you have to abide by the base laws in addition to the state laws. I wanted to buy a handgun when I was stationed in NY. But still had to have the residency requirements (1yr) and pass the application process (takes 6 months, even though the govt trusts me). I know a couple people who moved there with them, ended up having to ship them to relatives in other states. Also, every military base I've been on does not allow ANY projectiles to be brought on base (exceptions are for people performing their duties) this includes paintball, airsoft, potatoe cannons, blowguns, ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240ZR Posted February 2, 2006 Author Share Posted February 2, 2006 >_> I don't want to lock all my guns up in the Armory..... I don't trust he government with my guns..... I have a full auto mini14 with some 100 round clips.....and a Russian AK...... it was all purchased preban by my father.... and given to me 5 years ago now.... i forget if we passed the registration or not now.... ill need to check..... Vash just a question.... if i am not allowed to bring them on base.... dose that mean they are locked in the armory until i get clearance to remove them on set dates for personal use?...... I go to the range at least 2 times a month out here..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 "A couple of years ago" might have been during the time of the DC sniper. In that case your probably were not he only one who got rousted. I *think*, from watching cops on TV, that they are allowed to search for weapons if they have reason to suspect weapons or to guarentee their own personal safety. A report of an armed man is most likely considered probable cause. And a hand gun will fit in a purse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Michael, You fit the description of a man running around with a rifle. They were within their rights to detain and otherwise search you for the weapon. However, anything else they found would have been dismissed as fruits of the forbidden tree if you hadn't given them the permission to search. NEVER grant them permission to search. If they search anyway, because they feel they had probable cause, let the judge and grand jury sort it out. But never give permission... EVER. You give up your RIGHTS. That is a no no, and I know of NO police officers who would give up THEIR rights for anything. You did the correct thing in being calm, and obeying their orders. Unfortunately, when there is report of a suspect with a handgun acting suspisciously, the leo's look at it two fold: If they don't investigate it thoroughly and the individual then goes on to kill 10 people in a mass slaughter, the cops get hammered in the press for not doing their jobs. They do a thorough search of everyone fitting the description and then because they have scared the living hell out of someone like yourself, they get hammered. I'm BIG on public rights against abusive law enforcement, and if you felt your rights were violated, or that they did something improper, you should always get the officer's badge # and report them. I've been involved with reporting bad behavior of cops in the past, and I've never had retaliation from them. Hammer them hard when they step across the line. They certainly do us. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vashonz Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I have no idea on how getting stuff out of the armory works. Most people I know who own guns either live in housing (not in the gated area of the base) and just have to tell the base police what guns they own. Or if they live in the BEQ rent a locker at the range, they have access to it whenever the range is open. Also every base I've been on does random car searches. Open hood, trunk, any storage areas, give them insurance and registration. There have been both command wide and random "health and wellness" inspections of the BEQ. You open your door, they look through anything they want with you standing there, open panels in the ceiling, look under mattress, whatever. I know people who went to NJP for handguns, long knives, flushing agents, ect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Legally? probably none...... then again...... they where looking for drugs..... Like johnc said... It would mess me up bad right now.... I leave for the Army in 20 days..... once i am in the Army... I doubt any cop will write me up for carrying a gun in my car.... In fact I believe i am out of his jurisdiction as a Federal employee at that point..... Son, you've got a lot to learn. When you are off base, you're a civillian and ALL laws apply. When you're on base, it is ten fold WORSE. My advice to you is to leave everying you own with your dad until you've finished basic and have transfered to your first permanent assignment and then gotten guidance from your CO on your gun/ property issues. You're gonna find out that those weapons will likely have to stay with relatives until all the paperwork is complete. Because those weapons are pre-ban, I believe the pre-ban status stays with the individual they were registered to before the ban. The "pre-ban" protection doesn't transfer. I used to have an FFL license for dealing guns, have been a Federal Police officer AND a Federal Government Employee. I can tell you that none of this matters when a cop pulls you over. Then, you're just a suspect. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pop N Wood Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 What does "pre ban" have to do with anything anymore? All that chit expired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Evan, Trust me, as a soldier if you screw up off base you not only have to deal with the civil authorites as a civilian you also have to deal with a really pissed off chain of command, from the base commander all the way down to your platoon seargent. "Permanent Latrine Orderly" is a term that comes to mind for those that screw up off base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
240ZR Posted February 3, 2006 Author Share Posted February 3, 2006 meh.... I dont get to do basic.... I got WTC (Warrior Training Course).... I already go kicked out of the navy 5 years ago (227 days. got booted during schooling)....NJP sucks.... I dont know why I am going back.... hey John... I am going to wait on suspension 6 months... or so.... I am just going to garage the car.. untill i get back from Florida (should be around Christmas..... hit me up with an email.... so we can talk about buying the parts "one at a time".....I figure Ill have about 15k (cash or into parts) by christmas.......... or so..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazy280 Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I live in Cali and go to the range often. When I take my rifle, I keep it in its case and put it in the hatch area of the Z, and I keep the ammo in the glove box (and if there's alot of ammo I keep the rest on the passenger side floor). When I bring a pistol, it is in a case and I put it in the little "emergency box" under the hatch carpet, and the ammo in the glove box/floor. A few different cops have told me this is the correct method of transport. P.S. I think you're supposed to say "magazine", not "clip". Sorry, pet peeve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeatRaveR Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 That is still concidered a concealed weapon and can get you thrown in jail just as quickly. When I was in the federal police acadamy (many moons ago)' date=' the rule was inches of the blade dictated if it was a pocket knife and legal to conceal or if it was an illegal conealed weapon. Hiding it conceals it and an officer will draw his weapon on you just as quickly for having a knife as having a gun. Oh, and that length of blade issue is different state to state as well... Ain't law fun? Confused yet? I am! Mike[/quote'] Is a knife still considered "concealed" if it's one of those knives with the clip and it's visibly clipped in your pants pocket? Like, the clip and top part of the knife is visible from outside the pants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Concealed knives are clasified by blade length, and blade length varies from state to state. As to how the knife is clipped to your pants pocket with the bocy of the knife inside the pocket, I'm guessing you could probably argue to a judge (Maybe successfully) that it wasn't concealed, however, the issue shouldn't come up if the blade of the knife is less than the required legal defenition. Most of the mid to smaller pocket knives (think 1-3 inch blade here) aren't considered concealed weapons in most states, but check your state for a complete description. Some folks don't realize, but a baseball bat or other "stick" hidden behind the seat can be classified as a deadly weapon, and if perceived to be hidden (Say by a coat or other stuff), can also get you arrested. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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