millsan1 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/DATSUN-280Z-ZX-HEADER_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33631QQihZ006QQitemZ160009072705QQrdZ1 I really like the look of it, and it may be a bit of cash, but really nice looking part. He says in his ad that he has customers with this manifold for 2 yrs, so I figured those customers might be Z members. Anyone have any feedback on the part itself, not my illogical pursuit of trick bits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-ManQ45 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 You can look at how long I've been around - I've got an '83ZXT, and I've never run across this manifold, and believe me, I've searched. That said, 14 guage is nice. If you get one, get it coated! I'm probably gonna build one of my own - I have a MIG that I need to use for more than body/subchassis connector work now that the rotisserie is done.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slownrusty Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Wow that is cool. I quite like it, it looks similar to the SFP manifold in design...there is a thread on here in regards to Turbo headers do a search and pics will come up. The price is actually VERY fair. I will tell you that his 70hp claim is very exagerated....70hp at what boost level what hp level...you can "skew" the numbers for marketing purposes and for powers of convincing.. I hope you do buy it! Yasin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett76Zt Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 I couldnt tell you about the quality just from looking at it. I'm not typically one to be negative about any new products for the L28, but those claims are ridiculous! "STOCK TURBO, PORTED HEAD, PORTED INTAKE, WITH 9LB OF BOOST AND MADE 317HP TO THE REAR WHEELS" a stock zxt motor makes what, 160hp? wow, 2lbs of boost, port work and that manifold produced 150+hp? "HEADERS HAVE MADE OVER 800HP ON FULLY BUILT MOTORS " and those cars would be . . . .where? Anyways, it would be nice to see someone get some REAL numbers for one of these . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spork Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 um...looks interesting...not sure its worth the price. With the claims that are being made...I would consider that when purchasing something like this that you've never seen. If a guy is willing to tell you bold faced lies, can you trust his fabrication skills? eh...jusy my .02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 280ZForce Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 ok so I sent this guy some questions...hopefully he replies. Ebay only limits questions/commments/etc to 1,000 characters supposedly...I had 986 and it wouldn't go through, then reworded some things and got it down in the 950-960 range and still said I exceeded it. Finally went down to 920 characters and it went through. So much for 1,000! so let me know if you guys what to know anything else on this header. here's what I said... Where are these on numerous customer cars? Do you have pics to prove that? Can you prove over 70 whp over stock manifold? If so' date=' at what boost level and what mods done to the motor? Definitely not stock settings! Do you have before and after dyno graphs of the header swap? If you had these on a claimed numerous amount of customer cars, then how come when this ebay listing was posted on a few very high traffic and large Z forums, is it that no one has ever heard of this header nor ever seen it before? You can reply directly to my email address w/ any supporting evidence you may have... [email']s30zforce@aim.com[/email] I not only speak for myself, but for many others who would like hard proof of all your claims before any of us just dump $700 on your product. I'm sure there are many other ?s from others, but ebay only allows so much to be said in characters on here. That's why email is better. Thanks-Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsan1 Posted July 20, 2006 Author Share Posted July 20, 2006 WOW. Talk about blunt! Nicely done. Hope he replies. I did not believe the 70 HP claim, I just like the look. It seems like a good manifold. I am looking forward to his answer. Thanks for playing bad cop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 280ZForce Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 ok he replied, no pics of it on any car, but this is what he says... We are definitely not here to convince every one who wants to try and build a fast Z car about our products. A lot of things we do are strictly for customers looking to separate themselves from everyday Z guys. If we told our secrects to everyone out there what would be the point of having the fastest Z car. The header works' date=' we have spent over 7 years developing this header just as with a lot of our other products we race with on our own drag car. Another side bar is that if most people were familiar with making power they would know a tuned header is easily worth close to 100HP over any type of log manifold on most turbo vehicles, simply because you are using the exhaust pulses to spin the turbo. On the log (stock) manifold there is only one runner that actually exits unobstructed out the opening to the turbo only after pressure builds in the log do the exhaust pulses find there way out through the opening (with no pressure exerted to the turbine wheel) which then the log is close to being restrictive. Our header uses all the pulses from the engine to drive the exhaust blade of the turbo and because of the size and length of the tubing it doesn't become restrictive. Imagine all runners flowing exhaust into the turbine housing and using scavenging in the mid and upper RPMs to drive the turbine wheel. [b']This isn't science just simple logic.[/b] I'm working on my reply right now...let me know if there is anything you guys want me to ask or say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 originally said by: ebay seller: This isn't science just simple logic. That was my favorite part, even more than the part where he is trying to sell you a $600 manifold that looks like he slapped it together in a garage by saying he doesn't have to prove that it works to you. I say just leave him be and watch the price magically come down after a few auctions with nobody buying it. Did you see the other things he's selling? Some kind of easy bake oven and a mustang fuel cell...kind of wierd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 280ZForce Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 ok my response to his email.... I'm not asking you to convince everyone nor anyone person. My main Z forum is http://www.hybridz.org' date=' which consists of Z owners who don't stay original. They are owners who have done all kinds of motor swaps (gm/chevy/ford/mopar/etc v8s, toyota 2jz/1ufe/7mge/etc, skyline rb20/24/25/26, sr20, and many others), have extended mods, big turbos (Holsets, gt35s, gt40s, gt70s, etc), extraordinary things normal Z owners wouldn't dream of, we aren't purists or hard heads. We just love to drive our Zs and do whatever we can to them. We just want proof of product, pics of it installed, documented gains, etc.. Not much to ask for, especially if you really want to sell your items. The guys over at Hybrid Z (over 4,600 members), most of them know their stuff and we appreciate your explanation of why you chose the design and we are very interested in your turbo header and your Z, but anybody can talk the talk and describe something any way they want, no doubt a salesman of all people. We are not saying your header doesn't work or doesn't look good, we like it, but just want some background on it and some pics of it installed, etc as I mentioned previously. Maybe you wouldn't mind registering on the forum and giving us some input on your turbo header and showing us some pics and your drag-z car, that would be awesome and we definitely welcome all Hybrid Z guys to join the forum. We aren't like your average forum, we have a respect for each other and are more like a big family of crazed Z-car heads. We like off the wall swaps, good mods that help benefit big power, custom cages and transmissions, differentials, dashes, wheels, body work, air ducting and movement, etc. If there is some crazy stupid fast Z cars, we definitely have a lot of them on the forum. So take a peek at the forum and let us know if you can give me or us some more info on the header and some pics and spec proof of what you claim. Again, we'd love to see your Z car and what you have to offer if anything to the Z community that are interested in big power gains and unique parts and just solely Z-ness. - Justin[/quote'] so now to wait for his rebuttal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Science -is- logical. His auction description definitely made sure I would never buy his manifold. No, I wouldn't trust a bold-faced liar, no matter how good the product looks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dan4011 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 i actually know this guy, his name is frankie, he lives a couple hours from me and i purchased a turbo kit from him and hes been helping me with it, i personally know one of his customers whos had all his motor work done by him and his 83 zxt is pushing over 500hp and its all street. i dont have anythign to say about these headers but he has mentioned them to me but im kinda at a lack of money now. never actually seen one. from working with him i know hes a very educated guy when dealing with datsuns and he has been for some decades. i trust him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 i have to agree alot of the hp claims he gives me seem very high. High is not the issue for me, it's the fact that they're blatantly false. 800HP L28ET? Arbitrary x amount of HP increase? And then saying "oh, I don't have facts to back up my claims, but it's just common sense that I'm right" - huge turnoff. Header looks cool, but his sales technique makes him sound like he's selling an "electric supercharger." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigenOut-S30 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I asked him for video or dyno sheets of the 317hp dyno run at 8psi of boost. as well as either pics or vids of the 800hp Z.s. I would like for him to come down to SEZ and show off his products. I doubt he will show with a 800hp l28 powered Z. Would love to see it, but very doubtfull. We will see what he responds with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millsan1 Posted July 21, 2006 Author Share Posted July 21, 2006 I spent about an hour on the phone with him today. he seems to know what he is doing, but anyone can sound educated. He shared some of his horsepower making ideas and they seemed pretty cool. On the phone he sounds a lot more realistic than in his ad. I may go crazy and spend the cash with him. If it is a good header, we have found another source of cool parts, if it is not, I wasted some money. He is sending me an email with all the mods he thinks shoudl e done to make a Z fast. I will look hard at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 "STOCK TURBO' date=' PORTED HEAD, PORTED INTAKE, WITH 9LB OF BOOST AND MADE 317HP TO THE REAR WHEELS" a stock zxt motor makes what, 160hp? wow, 2lbs of boost, port work and that manifold produced 150+hp? "HEADERS HAVE MADE OVER 800HP ON FULLY BUILT MOTORS " and those cars would be . . . .where?[/quote'] Well, JeffP isn't using the stock turbo, but was running 300+ ft-lbs on a lean-running mistuned setup at 4900 rpm. At 8Lbs of boost. And take a stroll through the dyno cell in 1983 at the Electramotive Works, and you wouldn't be far off from that number! Porting the head makes for lots more flow---people need to understand boost is RESTRICTION TO FLOW. Boost is NOT required to make big power, IF you have set up the head and flow correctly. Gas in, gas out---the more efficient you make it (just like an N/A, you can't fool physics!) the more power you make! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 280ZForce Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 so he replied back to my last email w/ this... Justin thanks and if I came off as harsh I apologize, but we have been doing this stuff for a long time and have been putting up the big numbers as far as horse power. Everybody has some sort of combination just as we do, some are good and some just don't work up pass a certain horse power. We actually use to be a member of Hybrid Z, but didn't stay long. We are working on actual video footage to put on our up and coming web site so any one can click on the videos to watch. I will re-register on Hybrid Z and open up for questions, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad-ManQ45 Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 I don't know about the "tuned" part of his statement above. Every article I've read about tuned headers has referred to equal length runners so that the exhaust pulses arrive in timed sequence no matter what rpm you're at. His runners are not all the same length. I have no doubt that they are freer-flowing than the stock manifold though. I would be interested to know what the inside diameter is of the tubing he uses. You definitely don't want it larger than the port area, that would only slow down the exhaust gases and allow for expansion/cooling before hitting the turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNeedForZ Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 Every article I've read about tuned headers has referred to equal length runners so that the exhaust pulses arrive in timed sequence no matter what rpm you're at. His runners are not all the same length. I think equal length headers is more important for NA cars. The way the ebay seller made his manifold is so that every exhaust pulse can arrive at the turbine without bouncing off walls. From what Iv'e learned, keeping the pulses as unmolested as possible benefits boost response, that's about it. See how some of those 4-cylinder turbo manifolds look like 4 ram's horns? That's keeping the pulses unmolested. However that is not to say his claims are not possible. Remember folks, a HP number only refers to peak horsepower regardless of how the rest of rpm range performs. If the ebay seller makes his torque in the high rpm range(this is possible with a different turbo, cam), he will be capable of making a high HP figure, higher than most street setups since a typical street turbo setup makes torque in the middle rpm range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritech-z Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 The scavenging effect that comes from "tuned" headers happens when one exhaust pulse actually pulls more gas from another cylinder by using it's velocity to "drag" it out. In order to do this the runners need to merge at precise distances so that the exhaust events coincide at the correct time. I don't see anything that looks like that from this manifold, but since we aren't talking about any actual science with this guy, how can you argue with him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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