Is an LS1 really lighter than a traditional iron block SBC?

[LS2 V8 Miata]

That's all I've got for now, sorry I pushed your buttons. Maybe I need to hone my communication skills.

 

- Lee

[JMortensen]

You know what? You did push my buttons just right and I think I overreacted. I apologize. I'd like to see any actual proof you might have one way or the other, I'm sure there are many others who would love to see numbers as well.

[LS2 V8 Miata]

The problems I've always seen is just how and what everybody's trying to weigh.

 

If you Yahoo or Google (The Google) "What does a Chevy 350 V8 weigh?" you get about 26,000 results. Closer review indicates they are almost 100% opinion, IE this is from a V8 Vega conversion site.

 

How much more weight will I add to the front of my car?

 

You figure it out!

• 2300 OHC: 336 lbs
  
• Iron Duke 2.5L: around 350 lbs
  
• Buick 3.8 V6: 435 lbs
  
• Chevy 350 V8: 621 lbs

Aluminum components help reduce weight. These numbers are for factory OEM (mostly iron) engines.

 

And the response of a few minutes ago from GM;

 

LSX Series Turn Key Weights

"We appreciate your e-mail regarding the weight of our engines. The

approximate weight of our L-series GM Performance Parts engines, as

ordered, you requested is as follows:

 

LS1 = 558 lbs. (part number 25534322 - discontinued)

LS2 = 550 lbs. (part number 19156261)

LS6 = 544 lbs. (part number 17801268)

LS7 = 528 lbs. (part number 19165058)"

 

Thank you for your interest in our products.

 

- GM Performance Parts

 

That's all, have a good one, Jon:burnout:

[that240guy]

I am very curious to see which motor weighs more dressed as it needs to be to go into a Z with an alternator and water pump. I have an LS1 powered 260 that weighs in at 2420 lbs. Perfect 50/50 1210 on each axle. I didn't weigh the car before the swap but I am inclined to say that the car was at least 100 pounds heavier with the I6.

 

I don't know why this thread is upsetting people. I understand that this was a crude comparison test just to show their findings.

[JMortensen]

Getting the weights before and after a swap would be very valuable. This also wouldn't tell you what the difference in the engine weights is, but would probably be MORE useful than that info because there are other things to factor in, like the nearly 100 lb heavier T56 that most people seem to use.

 

The following figures are from zhome.com, and came originally from R&T magazine:

 

70 240Z 2355 lbs

73 240Z 2450 lbs

74 260Z 2665 lbs

 

If you have the early 260Z, it should be in the 2450 lbs range stock. If you have the later 280 style, then it should be in the 2665 lbs range stock. I don't know if "curb weight" includes a full tank of gas or not, but regardless, it doesn't appear that you have added much if any weight to your Z.

[BRAAP]

Do the parts weigh more installed then they do on top?

 

Ron, You know what I mean... I don't see the need for that comment...

 

 

 

Mikelly,

 

 

I’ll be honest, I have no idea what you meant other than you possibly would like to see a bare block to bare block comparison? As for those stacked parts on the L-98, that was in effort to get an apples to apples weight comparison. Being as the LS-1 has the cam, damper, water pump, front cover, “installed”, and the L-98 “didn’t”, we didn’t think that installing those parts vs just stacking them on top would have much affect on how much it weighed so we just stacked those parts on top. This was just to get an idea of “comparably equipped” short blocks. I’m pretty sure that is what Ron was getting at.

 

 

 

…

I personally want to know if there is a weight difference and I want to know which components weigh what. Also, YES it does matter, not only how precise the scale, but that both engines are places EXACTLY on the scale in the same manor and same location. It's very easy to use the wrong type of scale for weighing items like this and getting the wrong reading...People do it everyday weighing themselves. Ask a physician...

 

 

 

Yeah, I agree 100%. B-room scales are not a great choice for this type of data gathering, but we weren’t going for exact figures, just a general idea as we have heard/read that the difference between the traditional SBC and the LS-x as being between 55-90 lbs, and no one could agree on that either. Being as we happen to have an L-98 short block out of an ’85 C-4 Vette in the shop AND a 2000 C-5 LS-1 also in the shop right now, it was inevitable that our casual shop talk would turn into “lets see for ourselves”. We were both struggling to see this 55-90 lb weight savings that the LS-x is supposed to have over the traditional SBC, (yet we both strongly agree that the LS-x in any fashion of street build makes more power over a broader range, more on that later). Yes the bare block of the LS-x should be lighter, but the LS-x also has a massive water pump and that large bat wing cast aluminum oil pan that could offset that weight savings. Our goal was to just get an “approx” idea of what the difference was as our feeble minds just couldn’t fathom 55 or more lbs difference, so our casual shop talk turned into “get out the scales and lets perform a back to back “short block” weight comparison… and Wa la, this thread.

 

 

Back to my original point of this post, yes there can be quite a difference in the readings just by where the weight is placed on the scale itself, especially bathroom scales. In an effort to minimize that error so that we could get a somewhat repeatable relative IDEA of the differences in short block weights with out having to deal with placement errors, I’ll just quote my previous post…

 

Well, we would agree that Bathroom scales are not the best way to perform this sort of test, but as stated in Rons original post, the point of this test was to see how much “DIFFERENCE” in weight there was, not for actual numbers.

 

For the sake of getting as much repeatable accuracy as we could using B-room scales, we placed a long block of aluminum block across the scales and a wooden block between the aluminum and the lower scale to get the aluminum block level. We then weighed one engine then the other. T o verify that he scales were giving figures that were realistic, we even moved one of the engines more to one end of the scales and the total weight was within one pound, i.e. the scales were reading repeatable no matter which end of the aluminum we biased the weight on. This means the footprint” of the weight being subjected on the scales themselves was the same for both engines.

 

 

 

 

If you want to bring information like this to light, I applaud it. But do it in a manor that will with 100% refute these kinds of comments from those who have raised doubt. Otherwise, it's just consumption of bandwidth.

 

Mike

 

 

 

 

Is this last comment meant in regards to our original posting of our “informal” testing procedures and findings or the posts of others refuting our informal findings? We honestly had no intentions of posting hearsay type information, just info that we feel has some merit and value to the Hybrid community.

[280Z28]

I did see that the Warhawk block (alum) is 128lbs lighter than the GMPP LSX block (iron).

[m1noel]

Well, give me some time and I will post the before and after weights for my 78 280. I did weigh mine just before I started stripping it for the swap. Mine seemed to lose a little weight when I took off the fuel injection many years ago but I did not weigh it then. As it was with half tank gas with the few other mods to the L6 and with a roll bar, front strut bar it was exactly 1400 front, 1420 rear. As soon as I finish the LS2/T56 swap I will post the new weights. I may do something with the huge bumpers but I will weigh it before I do.

[dr_hunt]

What I'd really like to see is actual weights, on a pretty good scale of each engine and then post it as a sticky.

[Guest Mike]

Someone could build a simple but large balance scale (nothing fancy or pretty). Known weights (work-out weights??) could be used on one side as ballast while the other side supports the engine. Only a center marker with a pointing rod is needed on the scale.

 

I'm not going to build it though... I'm too lazy these days. Besides, I don't have access to all these engines.

[heavy85]

Let me start by appologising for wasting bandwidth but I feel like I'm at work with the politics getting in the way of progress in reading this thread. I took the original post for what it's worth as it was presented. To me it was just to provoke a thought process that just because 'everyone' thinks something is true you should still validate it for yourself.

 

Cameron

[LS2 V8 Miata]

My son-in-laws shop in Gilbert Arizona has 11-12 complete LS1s, LS2s, LS6s and LSXs on hand at any one time.

 

I know he's got 4 new crate 2005 GTO LS1s right now and at least 3 new crate Camaro F-body LS1s complete, with exhaust manifolds, coil packs, intakes, throttle bodies, injectors, fuel rails, water pump, harmonic damper, flex plates.

 

Anyway, we don't have digital scales. If you guys can round up anybody in the Phoenix area with digital scales that will bring them by I will uncrate one of each, LS1s GTO and F-body and weigh them. I'll take digital pictures to document what goes on.

 

That's all I can do, how bad do you wanta know?

- Lee

[that240guy]

My car is a latter 260z with 280z components. I guess that would make it the 2665 lb model. I know have an ls1 t56 with a jtr aluminum radiator and no A/C. Everything else is bone stock. I am positive I lost over 100 lbs doing the conversion. I don't know what it weighed before but I had it weighed a week ago at 2420.

[RTz]

I took the original post for what it's worth as it was presented. To me it was just to provoke a thought process that just because 'everyone' thinks something is true you should still validate it for yourself.

 

Nailed it.

 

Thank You.

[Guest Mike]

HEAVY85... You're right, we've tattered this thread a bit. Think of it this way though. Ron did accomplish his goal, which was to expose a possible myth and begin a new round of thinking regarding iron vs. aluminum blocks. Hopefully, someone will take this a step further and repeat Ron's measurements with an accurate scale. Then all this will be put to rest once and for all:wink:

[Guest Crispy Chicken]

Doing some shopping at publix tonight. Brought my Ls1 block and 45lb plate along..

 

Bare LS1 block 92lbs. 45lb plate 45lbs. Publix scale is right on the money... Got some weird looks and some lady got in my way.. haha.

 

I'll be bringing some more blocks and diffs over there soon. I forgot to grab my t-56 tranny on the way over. l'd say it weights about the same as the ls1 block "don't know for fact yet," but its not heavy as people think.. I don't want to say for sure but the iron 350 blocks I picked up in the past feel a bit heavier than the ls1 block. Again I wont know for sure till I weigh one.

 

 

Derek

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tannji]

Holy cow.

 

 

I just deleted my comments on this thread.... nice thread idea... but once again..... Holy Cow.

lighten up guys.

 

tannji

[JustinOlson]

Very Nice!

 

I've read the T56 weighs ~128 - 140lbs. I'll be interested in seeing you weigh it.

 

Regards,

Justin

[280Z28]

Crispy Chicken that is hilarious :rotfl:

[Mikelly]

Crispy, THAT IS EXACTLY what I was looking for... Now lets get a standard 4bolt main bare block and a standard LT1 bare block and weigh them.

 

Paul and Ron, I'm not arguing what you guys did. Only trying to state that the info is thought provoking and only pushes us to ask someone to validate it to the level of actually taking a real and acurate scale, and three bare blocks to see what the differences in the blocks are... That said, I'd then want to see the other main components weight... Rotating assemblies, heads, and so on...

 

Somewhere along the way the LS1 MUST be significantly lighter, or we've all been lied to... And that's my point in challenging you guys (any of you guys) to validate or dispell what's been produced here. That's what this site is about gang... FACTs...

 

Mike