Chewievette Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 I have been attending classes to earn my A&P maintenance ratings for the last couple of years and over that time span you learn things about certain aircraft, especially ones you work on or see hanging around the airport all the time. One in particular is a Riley D-16A Twin Navion ( http://www.twinnavion.com/rileyhistory.htm ), a very rare airplane. It has been sitting in the same location on the airport for the last 20 years, outside. Obviously, not in the best condition but it is still savable, which I would like to do. I have been in contact with the owner and he is willing to sell. However, being a broke college student, I dont have the resources to take on the purchase and restoration of the aircraft. The price is very cheap when you consider its rarety, but its still not in my range. I am wondering what you guys think I should do, How do I save this rare airplane from its current fate? Should I attempt to find a buyer with bigger pockets? Even if it has to go to someone else, I'd rather that happen then let it sit and rot. What would you do? Any ideas? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naviathan Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Talk to the owner. Ask him if can manage a payment plan for you. Give as much as you can when you can. See if he'll move the plane to someplace less destructive for it until you pay him in full. He may even allow you to take possession of the plane before you pay it off. At least then you could start cleaning it up until you have the money to start working on it. Otherwise I would look for someone that could buy it or loan you the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike kZ Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 You could try looking for some partners. Many small planes have partners to share costs, maintenance, insurance..etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Ohhh god.. Can you imagine how hard it would be to find parts for a rare AIRPLANE.... on top of all that.. you need certifications in all types of fabrication techniques... I have several family members that have owned light aircraft.. including one Helicopter... I have heard a lot of stories and opinions on vintage aircraft ownership... To sum up.. It is like owning any big boy toy... The costs of maintenance and storage will break you unless you are made of money... I can guarantee that a Ferrari or a Lambo would be MUCH EASIER TO OWN... Do you really understand how much fuel it takes to get to cruising altitude.. that right there can make it nearly impossible to fly for a college student... If I were to purchase an aircraft in the near future.. I would invest in a nice vintage glider... You only pay for a tow up.. and that is usually around $50-$75 for a tow to 7000 ft... depending on where you live and the weather.. that can keep you in the air for hours... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewievette Posted December 7, 2006 Author Share Posted December 7, 2006 I am being trained on the methods that I need for restoring this aircraft. I'm not a pilot and dont intend to be for a while, but I would like to purchase and restore the aircraft and eventually sell or get a license and fly it myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_hunt Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Admirable, my dad was an A&P mechanic in the USAF in WW2. He owned several planes that we used to fly when I was a kid and also he was a commercial pilot for Braniff and TWA in the early days following the war. I still have his pilots license, log book, flight glasses and all his other stuff. He talked of fixing airframes and skins on B-29's in England during the war. Truly amazing the skills your learning to fix equipment that flies and carries people. He gave me words of advice, which were; Never fly in a personal plane unless he was the pilot and it was too expensive to pursue these days, unlike the old days. If you have a passion for it, and the means to do it, then I'd say go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airjockie Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 I'd give up on it for now if I was you...unless you have deep pockets. I got my A&P in 1999, worked at a vintage repairshop in FL for a few years, then jumped into building helicopters. A), your going to get a job offer somewhere far away. it will cost money to get it there, then set up a garage or hangar and tools. C) Once you get a job, you'll find fix-er-uppers all the time.... and then you'll have too many projects to do, and no money to do them...or no time to do them. PM me once you get your A&P..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twoeightnine Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Been in the aviation industry my entire life, military included. To qualify my response, let me say that hve the A/P, Aviation Sience Drgree, current Engineer for "a large helicopter company", have completed ground school but dropped out after 18 hours of flying. I have worked on, restored, or modified nearly every aircraft made military and civilian. Why did I drop out of pilot training? I, while waiting for my flight instructor, had a long chat with a group of skydivers. They brought to light that me, being a college student, would be lucky to be able to pay the fuel bill let alone storage, maintence, 100 hours/anual inspection ect. So I became a jumper instead of a flyer. I have held jobs where all I did was fabricate aircraft parts for various companies, all day, every day. I have seen a part that took me 6 hours and $15 of aluminum to fabricate only to ship out with a $580 price tag attached to it! Theses sucker ARE expensive. The best you may be able to do , if you truly want to save it, is to talk the owner into allowing you to work on it for a stake in it's resale. What does he have to lose? Your passion is refreashing however. I wish you all the luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meghan Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Contact http://www.navion.com/ & see if they're interested. If not, ask them how much it would cost to resurect & rebuild a rare aircraft that's been sitting for 20 years. Make sure you have the paramedics ready with O2 & a defibrillator, 'cause it's going to be a very BIG number... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 Why is this thread reminding me of a friend who was recently given (yes, given) a 30 something footer teak sailboat that is in need of repair??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewievette Posted December 7, 2006 Author Share Posted December 7, 2006 I cant just give up on it, it breaks my heart everytime I have to pass by it on my way in to class. Sooner or later the airport is going have a change of heart and sell/crush all of the old relics that are just sitting around, That will be a sad day. The last couple of months I have been trying to hatch a scheme to resurrect it I have a few ideas but I need more. Over that time I have also been looking at exactly what it will take to get it in the air again and its got at least five digits in the price tag. However, because of its rarety I could use the investment angle and raise funds that way. Even if it costs $60-80K to rebuild, it will sell for near double that depending on depth of restoration. My one other "good" idea is to start a business specializing in restoration. Buy the navion as a start up project, something to show potential customers our quality of work. That way I'd be able to start the business I've been dreaming about since 8yrs old and save a rare bird at the same time. I know a business isnt easy to start and make sucessful, but as long as I hammer out the details I can make it work. So, Good idea? or should I keep trying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamba_888 Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 I am a private pilot and have pilot friends that have restored and saved beautiful planes. One particular friend restored a 1941 Stearman. Get this... - It took us (I was helping) 2 years to dismantle the plane! - It took him another 9 years to put it back together. He had to get the blueprints from Boeing and he practically rebuilt the fuselage, spars, etc. ...hope you get the picture!!! The plane afterwards????.... Priceless. Flies like a dream. Just like new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airjockie Posted December 7, 2006 Share Posted December 7, 2006 do it as a hobby, not as a source of income...unless you have deep pockets and a place set up to do it. A project like that will take forever before you see any profit from it. It takes money to make money, that's prolly been said everywhere you've been. Plus, any aircraft sitting outside for 20 years will need too many parts replaced before it's even airworthy...I wastched a DeHavillan Caribou rot away so bad that the flap runners made of alum was flaking and the flaps fell off. 30 year old alum is not the qaulity as today alum...and remaking those parts or ordering from a company that doesn't exist anymore will take time, luck, and many hours from your life. The 80K's you can make from the rebuild...will take more than what you put into it. Another option you can do...is Ebay it, with your ad stating that a willing re-fab fresh A&P mech will follow the purchase and help with the rebuild, but I bet the guy that buys it will just lowball you for the parts only. How do I know...I worked at Vintage Props and Jets in FL, I've worked at countless FBO's, and now I build and test Sikorsky Helicopters for the commercial Flight ops side. I was in the Air Force as an F-15 Crew Chief, and lets just say I've been around aircraft since I was 12....I'm almost 35 now. As rare as that arcraft seems, there will be another rare aircraft where-ever you go...they stick out like sore thumbs, they look like they don't need much work, and they are just like Z cars hiding away in a barn some where...they will look like a great buy, (I said that already), and not needing too much work...(that too)...and one you break into the outer skin...then you find more problems....(just like a Z)..... Do what you want, but for the advise part of this post...just wait...you'll find something really worth restoring...My dreams is an Albatross...so I can load some freinds into it, fly somewhere, do some diving and camping, and get back home sunday night....from the islands... But my wife wants me to make an old proto-type Savoie from Italy, the same plane the Japanese anime Porco Rosso flew.. I'd be happy with an old fly-baby and putt around the local feilds everyday after work.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewievette Posted December 7, 2006 Author Share Posted December 7, 2006 I get what your saying, especially the Z reference (why do I have two?). I'll see what I can work out to buy it but if that fails I'll make sure it gets into the hands of someone that will do it justice, or at least use it to get another airworthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Globerunner513 Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 another thing might be to do kind of a "Group buy" for it....see if you can find a few people who would be interested and split the costs. I know a couple people who do that with a plane. (to fly it rather than work on it). can work out pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meghan Posted December 8, 2006 Share Posted December 8, 2006 As Airjockey indicated, if you do this, approach it from a hobby or educational standpoint, not a profit goal. A good , current, case in point a single engine Navion... 4000 hours of work, 190K invested.. Offered at 119K. http://www.aso.com/i.aso3/aircraft_view.jsp?aircraft_id=102967 If you look on the For Sale page of the Twin Navion link you had, most of the twins are offered for MUCH less.. http://twinnavion.com/forsale.htm Creating a group to purchase the plane & finance the restoration is a good idea, but a hard sell with those kind of financial numbers. You might also want to contact http://www.aircraftsystemsmanagement.com/ for advice.. They do Cessna reconstructions & would have a better real-world view of costs and difficulties in achieving your goals. Best of luck one way or another, though.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted December 8, 2006 Administrators Share Posted December 8, 2006 Chewie, Its nice to see someone care about something historic... unfortunatly you can't save the world. There are many other 'kids that need a home'. The right one will come along... patience my young padwan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katman Posted December 9, 2006 Share Posted December 9, 2006 Like the old guy with one word for Dustin Hoffman at his party in the movie "The Graduate", I have one word for you and it isn't "Plastics". It's "Corrosion". Run away, run far away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.