Exotic "SOUNDING", high revving V8! Read "ENTIRE" thread before posting!!!

[BRAAP]

I know the thread seems to be continuing with the idea of swapping a single plane crank into a domestic V8, and I believe this is the most $$ wise decision. But, and I know I will never own one, you still have to love the ferrari V8 engines single plane small displacement sound. I have added a link to a video just for memories.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Ferrari-360-Modena_162149.htm

 

This thread is the build up of a short stroke single plane V-8, not a Ferrari, but the goal is for it to sound like one;

 

http://forums.hybridz.org/showthread.php?t=139545

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tfddukrggett

[tannji]

Found a nice audio reference video if anyone is interested..

 

 

And a nice animation of a Ford flat-plane crank

[Gollum]

Finally got around to fixing that typo, thanks tannji.

 

That second video is mine btw, and that's the older model.

 

I still haven't had any time to make a new model since starting school. And by the looks of things the first chance I'll get will be christmas break, though I've got a shiny new laptop I got for free that will allow me to work on projects like this when I only have a few moments to spare.

 

 

I still think in the long run it'll be cheaper to make a custom crank than buy a ferrari engine. Maintenance on a ferrari engine is insane, and all the parts are dreadfully expensive. With a SBC or SBF once you make your bottom end modifications, get your custom cams, and get your crankshaft obviously, you're set. As long as you don't destroy the bottom end you've got an engine that can be rebuilt over and over again, decently reliable, and you can get parts for it everywhere for next to nothing.

 

That's the main downside I see to the VH45DE, there's just too many other things you'd end up wanting to do regarding the head and such, and 4 custom camshafts cost 4 times as much. The cheap pushrod route I think is a road worth taking.

[BRAAP]

Tannji,

Cool engine, 2.4L, 12,500 RPMs?!?! YEAH BABY!!!!

 

I could be very well be wrong, but when listening to that video, the exhaust note has a coarseness to it, like a high RPM dual plane V-8. It spins to 12,500 RPM, though it doesn’t sound like a typical 10,000+ RPM single plane V-8, nor even a 8500 RPM single plane V-8. The videos aren’t very clear, but to my ear anyhow, the Synergy sounds more like a dual plane Nascar V-8 on steriods, albeit revving a bit higher than the NASCAR V8. I found another dyno video of that same engine, linked below.

 

Dual plane V-8 exhaust notes takes on a smoother tone as the R’s rise, but still not the same crispness of the high pitch single plane.

 

In this video of the Synergy on the dyno, to my ears any how, it clearly sounds like a dual plane V-8 rumble/growl, as it pulls to 10,000+ RPMs, more so in the lower revs... (nice sound, just not that crisp sharp braaaaaaaaaap…)

 

Here is high RPM dual plane V-8 that sounds very similar to the Synergy, just not as many RPM’s..

 

Here is a Dodge NASCAR V-8 pulling to 9000 RPM on the Dyno also for comparison;

 

 

Here is single plane V-8 with a redline of only 8500 RPM, though it sounds like it is revving MUCH higher than even the Synergy V-8 which spins to 12,000;

[datsun40146]

OH MY GOD BRAAP That dyno video was orgasmic!

[tonycharger72]

Remember a fellow who used to own an Jag garage locally, fixed and maintained lots of old jags for locals, said you could slap in Chev 350 pistons and Rods into the 5.3L Jag V12!

 

The fellow said the engine turns into a 6.1 or 6.3L up from the 5.3L from the Factory. Don't know if that is actually a possible combination as the Jag has a 90mm bore and 70mm stroke, whereas the 350 chevy V8 has a 100mm bore and 88mm stroke - but guess it makes sense as you would have to bore out the Jag motor to use the Chevy pistons so displacement is increased,

 

He said he ran it with individual TB's or Webbers (Can't remember which) on a custom manifold and it revved to 11,000rpm - said it was the most amazing thing he had ever heard!!!

 

Jag 5.3L would be cheap and bang for buck, forged internals for a 350 chev would be extremely well priced as well, plus this company http://www.dellowauto.com.au/main.html can provide you with a bellhousing to mate a manual transmission behind it!

 

Think a Jag V12 revving to 11,000rpm would make a pretty decent noise!!!

[RayG1988]

Braap needs to make this into a business, he can make and sell the new "scarabs" of this generation.

[tannji]

Braap, the thing I noticed was that the Ferrari dyno was exposing the camera to the exhaust note of the vehicle, where the other dynos were separate rooms, and further muffled by the unknown exhaust system. I think I hear the same coarseness you mention, but particularly on the synergy, it hard to say given the muffling. Certainly different than the Ferrari's out-raged scream though = )

[BRAAP]

Here’s one for you guys..

 

 

Formula SAE project. Entire short block and transaxle was built from scratch! 554cc V-8, single plane crank, 16,500 RPM, Kawasaki 250cc four cylinder heads.

 

All pics courtesy of Western Washington Universtiy F-SAE team.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Trans axle;

 

 

 

 

 

Video on the dyno;

http://dot.etec.wwu.edu/fsae/videos/vik30dyno.mpg

 

 

 

V-12?!?! COOL!

[fastzcars]

Now THAT's cool Braaap!! being able to make your own motor from SCRATCH!!!! amazing!

[Careless]

What school was that from. I'd like to be there!

[rztmartini]

Holy induction batman!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKyP19ky_W0&feature=related

 

just imagine if a car passed you on the freeway sounding like that...now imagine changing your shorts...lol

[Flexicoker]

the FSAE V8 is from Western Washington

 

http://dot.etec.wwu.edu/fsae/viking30.htm

[Jerminator96]

That FSAE car is absolutely impressive. I wonder what kind of power it would make if it wasn't limited by FSAE rules, I believe the intake diameter is cut down to 20mm.

[Gollum]

That FSAE engine gives me new meaning to the phrase "I'd tap that"...

 

Absolutely gorgeous engine.

[rudypoochris]

I am still having issues understanding how a custom crankshaft like the FSAE one is actually made? To get the main journals which are in line with the axis of rotation doesn't seam THAT hard, albeit a crank is long so maybe it needs support on both ends? But for the connecting rod journals, how do they machine them? Do they create a bracket to offset the entire crank by the length of the stroke, thus making it rotate around the connection rod journals? This seems like it would vibrate at any significant speed, unless the crank is quite light. Additionally it doesn't seem like this practice would be very time efficient. Thoughts?

[Stephen M]

Do they create a bracket to offset the entire crank by the length of the stroke, thus making it rotate around the connection rod journals? This seems like it would vibrate at any significant speed, unless the crank is quite light. Additionally it doesn't seem like this practice would be very time efficient. Thoughts?

 

Good question...I've seen some very round-looking things come out of modern CNC milling machines without ever actually turning them on a lathe, but I can't imagine it would be accurate enough to meet desired bearing tolerances (especially at 16,000 rpm). If they do throw it on a lathe with an crank-length offset bracket as you suggest, they could dial down the cutting speed a ways to limit vibration, or mount some other offset weights on the crank temporarily to balance it. Of course, it's been over a decade since I've done any machining, so who knows what's possible now.

[BRAAP]

In simplified terms, the block of metal that is to become the crankshaft is left long so as to grab it past both ends. As rudypoo mentioned, the crank is offset to machine the rod journals, and the part is spun slowly. The overly large size and mass of the lathe helps absorb the forces of the spinning offset crankshaft. Once the machine work is done, those "ends" are cut off. One approach as the Washington FSAE team used, was to rough machine ALL the journals, rods and mains, in a mill, (they may have used a CNC mill). They are square, but in their approx location as shown in the bottom picture here. With the crank being left long, on a single plane crank such as this, there are 3 “centers”. On each end that will be used in the lathe. The middle “center” is for machining the mains, the other 2 “centers" are for locating and machining the rod journals about the center of that stroke to make those journals round. Some lathes will use a 4, 6 or 8 jaw chuck on both ends which allows the part to be offset from the spinning axis of the lathe itself so the rod journals can be turned. Another approach is to use a single four jaw chuck on the driven end of the lathe and “live” or “dead” center on the other end. The crankshaft would then have a hole in each of the “centers” for that live/dead center to locate into, while the four jaw chuck allows offsetting the driven end. There are couple other approaches for machining a crankshaft by hand. With CNC, there ways to machine a crankshaft are even more diverse.

 

 

 

Billet stock and rough shaped crankshaft;

Courtesy of Brian Crower

 

 

This video shows a crankshaft having its rod journals ground. Illustrates how the offset works when working the rod journals.

 

Interesting Video showing the mains being machined…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=be4N1tkPZao

 

 

Note the rough machined crankshafts…

Courtesy of the Washington FSAE team

[datsunmike]

I have been lurking this thread since the begining, i do not remember this beign posted, sorry if it is a repost.

 

This LS7 sounds really high pitched, I do not know if it has 180 degree headers or not. I really like the rumble down low and the high pitched revs its kinda like a double personality.

 

[BRAAP]

I have been lurking this thread since the begining, i do not remember this beign posted, sorry if it is a repost.

 

This LS7 sounds really high pitched, I do not know if it has 180 degree headers or not. I really like the rumble down low and the high pitched revs its kinda like a double personality.

 

 

As it revs, the smoothness sounds like it is probably 180 degree headers.

 

180 degree headers get part of that high pitched sound, but still leaves a coarseness in the exhaust note and doesn't like sound it is revving twice as high as it really is. In that video, that coarseness, especially at idle to me indicates dual plane crank. The smoother, less lumpity/rumpity pitch when revved up, sounds like 180 degree headers. A single plane crank at that same RPM, would have that similar tone, but would sound as if it revving a LOT higher, even though it wasn’t. Like the Ferrari V-8 videos earlier. They aren’t revving much if any higher than this racing Ls-7, but they sound like they are revving twice as high.