Plague_oc Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 Well I have noticed there are a great number of v8 swaps on this forum and I'm wondering, do all you guys do the swaps by yourselves? The reason I ask is because I was interested in having a mechanic swap a v8 into my 280z, and I am not sure if it would be a good idea to trust someone else to do it. I know there is a book on how to swap v8's into Datsun's, but I'm skeptical as to how much it would benefit me as I know very little about the innards of cars. If anyone knows and trustworthy Cali Datsun mechanics please post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 the problem is its a very time intensive job and your bound to have some custom features and options, and mechanics tend to charge by the HOUR , I think youll be far better off , taking the time and effort to buy the books, ask LOTS of questions and LEARN how everything works then AFTER joining a LOCAL hotrod or CORVETTE CLUB and making a few friends, who can instruct you and help with the project, especially guys with both extensive experiance and tools like WELDERS AND LIFTS, ENGINE CRANES, ETC. you can ATTEMPT to do the majority of the work and planing and accumulation of the parts yourself to significantly reduce the cost! plus if the car breaks down, its almost mandatory that you know a minimum of what it takes to diagnose and repair the car. look 90% plus of the satisfaction & pleasure youll have is in building and getting the car EXACTLY HOW YOU WANT IT, and knowing YOU built it to match your expectations, if your not willing to do that, then buy a factory hotrod and have the dealer do all the work, at least then you have a warranty and ALL the dealers can work on the car youll spend less and have a more rewarding experiance with a new mustang or corvette than you will on having a mechanic do a first class job useing first class parts on an old datsun, if your paying by the hour to do the conversion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague_oc Posted June 17, 2007 Author Share Posted June 17, 2007 Thank you for the good advice! However, is it not true that there are some pieces of equipment that are needed to remove and insert a new engine? I am not sure what it is called but what is the device that would remove the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 youll need a minimum of a good welder and an ENGINE CRANE, and the JTR MANUAL, and this site to answer questions, but do the research and make the contacts, join the local club and make the contacts before starting or youll be wasting a great deal of time and money http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43550 http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=35915 http://www2.northerntool.com/product-1/19889.htm http://www.jagsthatrun.com/Pages/Datsun_Z_V-8.html buy these also http://www.themotorbookstore.com/resmchstvi.html you really should get these books and read them before going any further, it will help a good deal, while only the basic info is presented it still makes for a good knowledge base, and referance DO YOURSELF A HUGE FAVOR buy these books FIRST it will be the best money you ever spent, read them, and you will be miles ahead of the average guy. youll save thousands of dollars and thousands of hours once youve got a good basic understanding of what your trying to do HOW TO BUILD THE SMALL BLOCK CHEVEROLET by LARRY ATHERTON&LARRY SCHREIB HOW TO BUILD MAX PERFORMANCE CHEVY SMALL BLOCKS ON A BUDGET by DAVID VIZARD JOHN LINGENFELTER on modifying small-block chevy engines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague_oc Posted June 17, 2007 Author Share Posted June 17, 2007 Thank you very much, I expected the engine crane to cost MUCH more. I guess I will start reading and prepare for this swap Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 ID STRONGLY advise making the contacts, lineing up a few experianced friends and doing the research, (preferably guys who have done a few engine swaps) and collecting the tools and parts BEFORE starting the project, some type of engine crane and welder are almost mandatory, KNOWING WHATS ENVOLVED and having a plan and a check list and the knowledge is mandatory, Ive done many dozens of engine swaps over the last 35 plus years, BUT! ID no more start that project without a welder, a manual or at least a good check list and a firm goal and a reasonable budget and expected time frame for its completion, than ID expect to do heart surgery on myself!! BTW the more contacts you make and the more clubs you join , the greater the chances youll find helpful & experianced members with tools like welders and lifts/cranes that may help with your project if YOU SHOW a willingness to HELP THEM with THIER PROJECTS, (and youll learn a good deal along the way) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deja Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 I agree with grumpyvette. When I started my LT1 project I had only pulled an engine on a VW and that was many years ago. But I have a friend that has swaped so many engine he's lost count. It really isn't rocket science but having someone there that is experienced is a must. I had my Z prepared on the morning of the install and it only took a few hours and that included the massaging we had to do in the transmission tunnel for the transmission to clear. Wiring, and plumbing of course take a lot of time, that's where the research and reading the books takes over. If you keep your swap simple it won't take too long and the JTR manual will make it relatively easy. Like the grumpster said you won't be able to take a HybridZ to you local garage for service so knowing as much as you can about your car is necessary. And there is no way better to know about it than to build it and document everything you do for future reference. It can be frustrating at times but at the end of each step you'll feel very proud of your accomplishments. I just had the thrill of that first time the engine started, trust me I'm still grinning. Do it yourself man, its totally worth the effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V8_DatZun Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 i knew almost nothing about engines, or my 280zx before i bought manuals and joined this forum. i pretty much became obsessed with the car, and the chevrolet small block engine. i bought books on the engine, and read read READ the books! purchase all of the parts, jobs that involve tools that are WAY too expensive let a machine shop do the work for you. if you dont have a welder draw up a diagram of the parts you need and take it to a welding shop. again i say, READ and use the SEARCH function here. Almost ANYTHING you can imagine to put into your car someone here has done 10x before you or more. It's time consuming, and you DEFINATLY need PLENTY of shop (if not shop space atleast storage space for parts) space. Read it, look at it on the car, then you can understand the way it goes. any help you need people here are glad to answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustorbust Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 What part of California are you from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 Volunteer! Volunteer! Volunteer! Ask around if anyone is doing a swap or major work on their car and ask if you can help them with it. It's the BEST way to get a good, free, solid, education on car building. Also they might even help you when it comes time to do your car...and loan you some tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gretchen/jason Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 I did it my self all the tools i needed were a basic set of wrenches and sockets some wire stripers a cherry picker or engine hoist . I ordered the engine mounts from MSA and the trans mount from JTR oh and a drill i had of course . It took me 3 hours to remove the stock engine and mount the V8 small block 350 chevy and trans . Then a bit of wiring about another hour with a 1 wire alternator and a MSD pro billet HEi distrubitor . All in all about 5 hours from removal to starting but no driving . And that is the very first engine i ever removed and installed Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague_oc Posted June 17, 2007 Author Share Posted June 17, 2007 Well I guess I expected engine replacement to be much harder than it sounds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pparaska Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 A cruise-in I frequent has an old 40s Ford that is in primer (I think it's been that way for a decade) and the following painted on the back of it: "It's not yours if you didn't build it." Until you build your own car or do a major modification like an engine swap to another type engine, it's hard to understand the depth of that saying. Hell, I feel bad for not being able to say I did the body and paint on my car - but I did everything else, including building the engine(s). The satisfaction you get is incredible. The other point about the cost to have it done is very real. And the issue of not being able to find someone that will fix it later is a big one. Read, read, read, and volunteer/network. We ALL had to learn this stuff somewhere the first time. Good Luck and have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague_oc Posted June 17, 2007 Author Share Posted June 17, 2007 What kind of price should I be expecting for a 250ish whp engine compared to a more more powerful LS1? Ive been looking at Chevy small blocks, but I am a little confused when I look at some of the engines that have been produced, mainly the dates they were first introduced. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Small-Block_engine#L46 If anyone knows where I can get a list all of the engine options I would appreciate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lbhsbZ Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 Well I guess I expected engine replacement to be much harder than it sounds If you are close to LA, I'm doing the first half of an engine swap in a 67 camaro tomorrow. I'd be more than happy to have you over and show you the ropes...(and an extra set of hands is always helpful ) A camaro is just like a Z car, just less room under the hood The best way to learn something is to watch or help someone do it. Reading about it will only get you so far. If you are going to be the owner/driver of this machine, it would be in your best interest to do the job by yourself (with assistance from friends). There will be problems with the car, and you won't like taking it to a mechanic every time something goes wrong. I have a friend with a '46 willys jeep...he bought it "restored".....which he has come to understand means "painted". I spend more time working on the jeep than he spends driving it. He has absolutely no knowledge of anything automotive, and gets frustrated constantly because the jeep is broke and he can't drive it until I have the time to fix it. He hates his jeep. If he were to go get a book on basic auto mechanics, and go to sears and spend a few hundred bucks on tools, I bet he'd learn a lot and spend a lot more time enjoying his jeep. Same thing applies to Z cars. Anyway, if you can make down tomorrow, give me a call. I'm about 5 minutes south of LAX. 310-947-7014 .... and bring beer. -Pat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague_oc Posted June 17, 2007 Author Share Posted June 17, 2007 Haha, well thanks a bunch for the help guys, I'm not going to consider replacing the engine till the end of summer as I am completely swamped with college, but you guys have all convinced me to take the time to learn more about this process. I'm not sure I can make it tomorrow Pat, but if I can Ill let you know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zwitha383 Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 What kind of price should I be expecting for a 250ish whp engine compared to a more more powerful LS1? Ive been looking at Chevy small blocks, but I am a little confused when I look at some of the engines that have been produced, mainly the dates they were first introduced. 250whp should be a walk in the park. Should be... With 9.5:1 compression, probably almost any stock heads and a mild cam you should be good. That's assuming you can make 300 at the flywheel and have a 16% loss through the drive train. Stock LS1 (Camaro) is probably around the same ball park (this might start an argument so here's a link): http://www.cranecams.com/?show=streetShark Dyno #'s are cheap and every dyno is different and can be MADE to say pretty much whatever they want it to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plague_oc Posted June 17, 2007 Author Share Posted June 17, 2007 Thanks for that link, it cleared up some of my questions regarding the LS_ engines. LS1's seem a little pricey going for around 4-5k, what would be some other cheap alternatives? Is there any guide that compares some of the engines that have been put in Z's? I'm just trying to get an estimate on how much I should be saving up. Would the LT-1 be a good engine to start off with? I read a few posts with some members that had them, and they seem to go for a good price for the performance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deja Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 Thanks for that link, it cleared up some of my questions regarding the LS_ engines. LS1's seem a little pricey going for around 4-5k, what would be some other cheap alternatives? Is there any guide that compares some of the engines that have been put in Z's? I'm just trying to get an estimate on how much I should be saving up. Would the LT-1 be a good engine to start off with? I read a few posts with some members that had them, and they seem to go for a good price for the performance I picked up a complete and drivable wreck of a 94 Z28 LT1/4L60E for $1500. I drove it home, pulled the engine and tranny and installed in it my 280Z. This got me the computer and an entire wiring harness that I know worked. I've parted out what I didn't use from the Camaro so the parts I've used at this point are almost free. Plus attacking the Camaro with saws-alls to dispose of the wreck was a blast! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grumpyvette Posted June 17, 2007 Share Posted June 17, 2007 a few basics to get you started http://www.rustpuppy.org/chp/Welcome.html http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/113_0703_small_block_chevy_engine_upgrades/ http://www.hotrod.com/tipstricks/44761/ http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/113_9804_cam_shaft_tech/ http://www.ryanscarpage.50megs.com/combos1.html http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=NAL%2D10067353&autoview=sku Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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