EMWHYR0HEN Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Thanks Chris for all of your efforts. I greatly appreciate it. First off, you didn't mention any thing about your caliper clearences. I'm hoping there wern't any with the Wilwood setup you have. Personally, I like the RB's because the spokes are more curved for better brake clearences. If the RB-R's have straighter spokes I would guess that would shorten the distance from spokes to rotor/caliper. Next, you mentioned possibly changing the front wheel offset from -13 to - 17 which I think is a good idea. However, it all depends on how easy of a fix this would be for the wheel makers. I'm mainly concerned about how long it would take for them to make that change because with the current wheel (-13) you could easily add any thin 2-5 mm spacer to your personal liking. With that said, will the test fit wheels you have now be an availible option, or do we ALL have to agree on the same thing? I'm asking because I like the way everything currently fits/ looks and I want to be able to add/ remove thin spacers on the front depending on different tires/widths. So i'm all in on the RB's 17 x 9 -13 (front) and 17 x 9.5 - 19 (rear) with the only change of the larger diameter lug nut holes. Again, Glad to see progress! Thanks Chris! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 Great questions EMWHYR0HEN, exactly the type of feedback I was looking for. I believe we can split it into two different things. One exactly the way they are now with bigger lug holes, and the other the RB-R's with the -17 front and -19 rear with larger lug holes. There was PLENTY of brake clearance - at least for the Wilwood setup. I will measure the exact clearance for you tomorrow. I will contact the representative and talk some of this over with him, get production dates, that sort of stuff. Also, does any one know if the stock brakes require more or less clearance than the Wilwood setups? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
200sxdatsun Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Is it me or does it look like the lips of the rims is bigger on the fronts? The lips should be 1/2 larger on the rears and it looks like you have the fronts on the rears and the rears on the frount. The picture looks like that. Not trying to be a you know what. Is anybody else picking this up? Looks awesome and they look to have a staggered look. Just trying to picture them with a polished lip and a painted center. Thanks for the work and time rudypoochris... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 It is probably an angle thing 200sxdatsun. Never the less I will check today with the micrometer and confirmt he right tire is on the right wheel. I am 100% positive the 255/40/17 wheel was mounted on the front, I just have to make sure the right tire was on the right wheel, which I am 98% positive of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 Chris, great work!!Did you happen to get any pics of the car on the ground? I know you are still playing with offset & clearence details, but I wanted to get a general idea of how the RB's look with the ZG's with no wheelwell gap. If you don't have them, no rush whatsoever!!! Just curious. Thanks The main issue with that is that I only have 2 prototype wheels and the lug nuts can't be bolted on. The best I could do was compressing the suspension as much as possible with the coil over set to the lowest setting. For the rears I am going to try and get the suspension all back together today. I will try and remove the spring from what setup and compress it further, but no promises as there is quite a bit to do back there. I know it isn't the same, but if you like I can raise the wheels on a couple of wood blocks to a simulated height. --------- On Monday I will attempt to meet with the representative again. I plan on asking him to merely make the bolt holes bigger on this design. I will also request and RB-R mold with larger holes, a -17 F offset and then give him some minimum (+1/4"-1/2") brake clearance drawings. How does that sound to everyone? This DOES mean that inevitably the RB-R will take longer to produce... the RB's should be available "right away", but there may be T/C contact at full lock (it is possible there will not be - as my alignment was not set on a machine, just by eye - also a 245mm tire probably will not rub) on the fronts. Worse comes to worse a 2-5mm spacer will be needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMWHYR0HEN Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 For those of us who want the 17x9 -13 and 17x9.5 -19 RB's "right away", How long until actual prduction starts and they show up to our doors? I have plans to run a 235-245 up front which should'nt have t/c rod rubbing issues just from looking at the pictures and from what Chris said. Regardless, any large & wide wheel (esp. with - offsets) on an S30 is going to require some cutting, grinding, bending, or other altering to get them to fit properly on a lowered car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravRMK Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Just use tuner lug nuts. There are ones that take an allen type key. like these http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Lug-Nuts-Tuner-12x1-25-16-Nissan-Subaru-Infiniti-Red_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33749QQihZ017QQitemZ270219945574QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW Oops these have a 10 point, but there are similar ones that take a regular allen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 Okay I took more measurements. Apparently there is no T/C interference on the right side of the car, this is very good news. This means my alignment is garbage and I need to mess around with it. Tomorrow I will head out again and play with it. Basically I think the -13 offset will be perfectly fine, but I will confirm. At a loaded position I had .75" clearance on passengers wheel and the T/C rod! Averaging the two out .750" and around -.125", I think the clearance should result in ~.3125" which is sufficient. Can any one advise on how to get this alignment reasonable with out a machine? Just adjust the tie rods until I get the same distance at full lock between the two sides and the wheels do not toe in or out? Some of the questions posed earlier: To Bjhines: The bottom of the ball joint to the tie rod is 1.587" in the vertical direction, 1.135" in the horizontal direction, and 1.028" at the closest point from contacting the wheel. As for brake clearance: Using my 12.2" Wilwood setup I have 1.970" of clearance between the outermost (from the center) protrusion on the caliper to the spoke. The inner most protrusion to the spoke is 2.220" clear. The mounting surface extends ~3.25" from the axis of rotation. Immediately after it provides 2.2" of clearance between spoke and mounting face, at 3.75" from the axis 3.11" clear, and at 5.75" it provides 2.5" clear. All those measurements are on the 17x9". For those of you using the JSK setup, I recommend grinding down end of the LCA. I just found out it contacts the rotor in a loaded position. As for the tires being on the correct wheels: I took a look, it is correct. Basically they both have 3" of dish to them and the offset is compensated for on the back side by adding or removing material. This is less than ideal and not in keeping with my original goal to make a wheel similar to the Watanabe. I will mention this to the rep for the RB-R molds. For those of you wanting the RB setup (the one I currently have prototypes for), is this acceptable? As for the stock suspension clearing these wheels: I have the dimensions posted. I would very much like for anyone who can to comment on clearance. These are the offsets Watanabe runs and I believe they clear stock suspension. I cannot be sure though. I no longer have a car with stock suspension, I will try and dig around Hybridz and find the spring perch diameters and such. Lastly, I will get back to you guys on manufacturing times on Monday. I plan to meet with the representative in person as a lot of this new information is hard to communicate over the phone with him. I will try to have the RB-R spokes recessed and ask him to lighten it up as much as possible with out compromising integrity. Pushing the spokes back and increasing dish MAY make the center caps un-useable depending on how far back the mounting surface is pushed. Just letting you guys know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 Apparently there is no T/C interference on the right side of the car. This means my alignment is garbage and I need to mess around with it. Maybe not. Remember, on a 240Z the right front wheel moves in a slightly different arc when turning then the left front wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted March 22, 2008 Author Share Posted March 22, 2008 Maybe not. Remember, on a 240Z the right front wheel moves in a slightly different arc when turning then the left front wheel. Please do explain. Why is this? Any advise on how I can tell if the alignment is "correct" short of taking it to a shop and getting it aligned using a machine. The fact that there is .75" of clearance between the T/C and the tire at full lock on the passenger's side and none on the other would make me think I have the wheels at about 0 toe (I had rolled it around before just fine and 'eyeballed' this) but the tie rod on the passengers side is threaded higher up (less distance) where as the tie rod on the drivers side is thread out more (more distance). The alignment was never set since I last worked on the steering, it was merely adjusted so the wheels were both pointing straight at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest coyboy510 Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 I took a look, it is correct. Basically they both have 3" of dish to them and the offset is compensated for on the back side by adding or removing material. This is less than ideal and not in keeping with my original goal to make a wheel similar to the Watanabe. I will mention this to the rep for the RB-R molds. For those of you wanting the RB setup (the one I currently have prototypes for), is this acceptable? coyboy510: I would really like them to get a deeper dish on these (RB) wheels as 1) I like the RB look(panasport look) better than the RB-R(watanabe look) better. 2) Like another poster states, whats the point since these are custom wheels anyway. Can't they make them? 3) I signed up to purchase 3 sets. If all else fails, i guess I'd still buy them, due to the fact that they are this type of wheel is expensive and hard to find, but would be a bit disappointed. As for the stock suspension clearing these wheels: I have the dimensions posted. I would very much like for anyone who can to comment on clearance. These are the offsets Watanabe runs and I believe they clear stock suspension. I cannot be sure though. I no longer have a car with stock suspension, I will try and dig around Hybridz and find the spring perch diameters and such. coyboy510: I will look at my car and see what the dimentions are. If you had access to a spare front assembly it'd be nice to just bolt it on. Is there anyone on this thread that lives near you to loan/check this out? Anyone...Anyone? (Save Ferris) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted March 22, 2008 Author Share Posted March 22, 2008 I do know some one with a 280z local to me with (I assume) stock suspension. It will take a while for him and I to match schedules, I will work on it. According to my calculations 1.75" from tube, with a 51mm OD tube, that results in an absolute maximum perch size of 5.507" diameter, AT the rim lip which is naturally 17/2" away from the wheel's axis of rotation. As for the RB-R, RB current, and RB new style - I will talk with the rep. on Monday and try my very best to accommodate everyone. If the -13 offset works fine (I think it will once I get my alignment sorted), then the RB current can go straight to production. Any re-edits will naturally take more time (RB deep dish and RB-R deep dish). Hang in there guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted March 22, 2008 Author Share Posted March 22, 2008 I emailed the rep a day ago and waiting for him to get back at me...I think I'll wait for the -17 RBR wheel to come out. Also, like others I'm sure, am kinda disappointed on how they just added material to compensate for the offset instead of moving the center itself more in the wheel giving a larger lip. I'm working on this. It will probably be a -13 RB-R. I will get the alignment sorted today. Also, I hope to increase the dish considerably instead of having them simply add material to the back. I will try my best, there are a lot of different angles this group buy can go. I will try and maximize our options and minimize any compromise. We will know a lot more after I meet with the representative on Monday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted March 22, 2008 Author Share Posted March 22, 2008 I just took some more measurements and adjusted the alignment. I am now clearing the T/C rod by ~.3 to .43" depending on compression. To set it up what I did was measure the distance full lock right from the rotor to the frame, then adjusted until the distance was the same at full lock left at the back of the rotor. The results were within 1/8" of each other. Clearance was fine at that point. EDIT: Tomorrow (Sunday) evening I will be visiting my friend with a running - aligned 280z. I believe he has stock suspension. This will be the real test to see if all goes well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted March 23, 2008 Author Share Posted March 23, 2008 What do you mean by "side shots". As in taking a picture of the car from the front so the side of the wheel in relation to the car body is visible, or a straight on shot? The current lip is 3" front and back. I am going to try and have the lip increased by recessing the spokes further. Which brings me back to brake clearance... Can anyone comment on how much their caliper protrudes from the mounting face of the hub? Please specify brake setup. Thanks! Any information you guys can provide me about your setups is much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Chris fitted the fronts on my car with stock suspension. The news: No clearence problems ANYWHERE Full lock to lock I had no tire scrub anywhere. Not the frame rails, not the TC rod. Not with full droop, not under load. Chris got lots of pics but had to run, he had a family easter dinner to get to. Plenty of room on the spring pearch area as well. But it's not necessarly wasted space either. Fitment looked so good that if I was willing to buy a set of VG's to gain the outside clearence I'd be happy to buy a set, but unfortunately money is too tight right now for me to do that. I thought the "deepness" of them looked fine to me. To me there's a too deep, to the point that you can't see the rim all that well, and these had a nice lip to them, while still displaying a good rim. Looked good in person to me. Looked good on the car too. Chris got quite a few pics, and said he'd be posting them later, tonight I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted March 24, 2008 Author Share Posted March 24, 2008 Gollum pretty much covered it. Stock spring perches clear. There is no interference at the frame rails full lock either direction, no interference at the t/c rod, no interference at stock ride height. T/C clearance was around .3-.5" clear. It was really nice getting to test these wheels out on an aligned 280z WITH an air dam. There is no rubbing anywhere. Which is great news. The ZG flares are only needed to cover the wheels, not to provide anymore clearance than is provided stock with an air dam. Another plus is that the stock - I believe they were - lug nuts are usable and accessible inside the wheel. I will still talk to the representative tomorrow about getting a wider bolt hole since I think this is cutting it to close for comfort personally. As for the deep dish. I agree, I would like more. There is no such thing as too much (sarcastic)! Lastly, I checked stock brake clearance... turns out the calipers are pretty much fully behind the hub so it is a non-issue. I think the S12W setups will be the real tester. I no longer have one of these... anyone running the S12W's? Below are some pictures showing off the wheels for those of you requesting more pictures. Brake clearance, perch clearance (~.25" on one side ~.375" on the other), and acceptable lug nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted March 24, 2008 Author Share Posted March 24, 2008 I am pretty sure Rota will go for an additional set of molds. I will try and do all that I can to get an additional two sets of molds, both styles in deep dish, but that might be pushing it. In all honesty, I am going to push for the RB-R in deep dish as I think it is most in keeping with the original spirit of this group buy. BUT - I will do my VERY BEST to try and get the RB style set to deep dish as well. I will see what I can work out. I know you want the deep dish RB badly coyboy510 - I hope not to let you down. Happy Easter to you all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 How big are your flares? Don't forget that my car is at stock height, making it look like it fits better than it does. They stuck out at least a good visible inch from the fender lip. Me and chris were thinking the smaller/normal ZG flares would be perfect for fitment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparkynacho Posted March 24, 2008 Share Posted March 24, 2008 Gollum, check out my gallery under sparkynacho; I would say 2-3 inches wide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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