Made it to the dyno

[1 fast z]

Well with about 20 minutes on the dyno, as the dyno shop had over booked, and screwed us big time on our time frame. Clifton and I both showed up. I had big time spark issue, like its cutting in and out, I need to look at the VR sensor to Trigger wheel distance, and make sure the sensor is still tight. I had an oil leak out of the turbo, and cause some smoking as seen in the vids. It was still running rich when we I got off, but ok I guess for now. I only got 17 lbs out of it, as I wanted to crank it up after I got the afr's tuned, but ran out of time. I made 402 torque and 475 HP, at 17 lbs of boost. If tuned a bit better I think I could of got 500 HP at 17lbs. I would of up the boost to 25 lbs, and gone for the 600 mark, but no time. I will post the dyno sheet soon, for better examination. I did push it to 8,000 RPM once.

 

 

[Challenger]

Wow congrats, what is the power for a L28et at 17 psi with only 1 cam?

 

You know the guys that were making fun of your project? Youll have to show them that.

[RTz]

[1 fast z]

One more.

 

 

[1 fast z]

I think the funny part is, that these are just junkyard 280zx turbos. I have talked to others that spend BIG money on turbos and get pissed when I tell them I have 50.00 in my turbo's, HAHA.

[datsun40146]

Wow what a wonderful sound. BTW I have to ask as someone else already has, What would be the difference in power all things being equal if you used a single cam head? I'm just wondering as I sure others are how much power all that work was worth. I hope you win the poll BTW.

[BRAAP]

Incredible! VERY impressive Brian.

 

Regards,

Paul

[1 fast z]

Thanks for the compliments, it has been alot of work, not alot of money, but TONS of work. I have about 3200 in the entire car. Clifton says it makes the same power his did at 10 less PSI. So I think thats a pretty good description on how well the head flows, and thats comparing 6 cyl to 6 cyl and 24v to 24v. My LONG term goal is to get 750 whp out of it, and have ONE of if not the HIGHEST L series EVER. I dont know if Ill get there, but that is my goal.

[Challenger]

What is the current record? I remember seeing a ~7xx hp L28 thread a while back. But that one only had 2 valves. Im gonna look for the thread.

[naviathan]

It sounds great, but it doesn't sound like a miss to me. It sounds more like you need to advance the timing some more in the midrange. You had some sharp drops in the middle of the graph then as the RPMs racked it out cleaned up a lot. I love it! I wish I had the expertise and machinery to do something like that. Beautiful work!

[JustinOlson]

So for those that haven't followed the build, these are KA24 heads welded together?

 

Justin

[nismopu]

theyre three different KA24 heads cut up, doweled, and then bolted together. I dont know exactly what he did for cams but i think it was something to do with rb26 cams. Read the whole buildup because its pretty cool. peace.

[frank280zx]

NICE numbers...

i dont want to burst your bubble (LOL nice word in this DOCH light) but the electramotive qualifying cars where well over 750HP with a 'normal' head.. next to that there is the fact that in Japan there are several 700 hp, even 800HP street driven l series.

your power potential should be much higher than that! given the advantage in flow numbers.

[1 fast z]

Is there documentation on those numbers frank?

[slownrusty]

NICE numbers...

i dont want to burst your buble but the electramotive qaulifying cars where well over 750HP with a 'normal'head.. next that in japan there are several 700 hp, even 800HP street driven l series.

your power potential should be much higer than that! given the advantage in flow numbers.

 

The Electromotive cars had completely different combustions chamber designs that were re-shaped, re-welded and had many many hours of skilled work, massive valves, porting and polishing that humbled the best builders and not to mention a very custom cam. Granted on the outside thy looked like a "normal" SOHC head, on the inside they were a much different beast.

 

Yasin

[1 fast z]

Just looked at the graphs, looks like it was 478 HP, I will post them shortly.I will be back before the year is over with over 600 RWHP is my short term goal. I would belive 750 Crank HP out of L series But I would have to see some substatial proof that cars are making 800+ RWHP out of SOHC heads.

[Tony D]

The Electromotive Cars numbers come from people talking to the Dyno Operators who ran the testing back in the Competition Days. 820 for Sprints and Qualifying was a number given. 750 for Enduros. The published data was in the Road and Track test, and was given at 7500 rpms and 21.6psi of boost. Of course, that would have been valid numbers, had they only run the engine to 7500, and only run 21.6 psi of boost in competition.

 

The Porsche 917 had coarse acme screwthreads on their boost controller, and in a 270 degree arc, the mechanics had written in yellow paint marker in a clockwise fashion the numbers "600" around 7 o'clock, "800" around 11:30, and "1100" around 2:30... The driver, with a twist of his wrist could almost double the output of the car. Same goes for Electromotive. You knew the engine was tested to well above what you 'needed' in a race to simply win, but if you needed to make up some time, or put on some distance for a maintenance interval you cranked it up.

 

My only concern is the Turbo Longevity at 17psi. They are stock 280ZXT's and above around 12psi they are grossly inefficient, and with the thrust bearing design they don't live long. I believe mine surged at 23psi, so I limited my boost to 21 on the stock turbos.

 

I think the 'proof of concept' is complete. I think it's time to quit screwing around and put some .43 A/R exhaust turbines on there to get your spool point down a little, and upgrade to a T4/T3 Hybrid design so you flow a lot more air for the exhaust you produce. I think there are great gains, and the T3/4 hybrids are cheap enough...and you don't have to worry about grinding the Intake manifold, or putting a spacer on the exhaust manifold to clear it! While it's possible that a single 280ZXT Turbo can make 300 hp, and since you have two of them the flow capacity should allow that...I think you need more flow from the Compressor with better efficiency at the 17-25 psi range, along with slightly less turbine area afforded by the .43 A/R housings. For a Nissan .43 A/R (or maybe it's .48) Exhaust Housing that is a direct bolt on retrofit to the turbo cartridges you currently have, they were on L20ET's as well as the LZ18ET---both JDM engines.

 

Now, to watch the Videos...

 

Oh, and when I told JeffP about the numbers last night he said "I'd be happy with those numbers. First run on the dyno? F**k yes, I'd be happy with those numbers!"

 

First time I think I ever heard Jeff say he's happy with ANYTHING automotive related! LOL

 

Good Job Bryan. 'He who will not be named' must be practicing puckering... my United Tickets have blackout dates, but not the Southwest Tickets...I wonder when SWA will start flying to ATL? muahahahaha!

[frank280zx]

The Electromotive cars had completely different combustions chamber designs that were re-shaped, re-welded and had many many hours of skilled work, massive valves, porting and polishing that humbled the best builders and not to mention a very custom cam. Granted on the outside thy looked like a "normal" SOHC head, on the inside they were a much different beast.

 

Yasin

 

that is why i said 'normal'

Sorry brain there is no secret about it

The GTU (so 2.5 liter) made 580 horsepower for endurance events in the beginning of the 79 season at a 7,5 k limit witch they did not really have as a limiter! Eventually the engine made almost 700 horsepower in 1983 and could spin the tires in fifth gear. this according tot the Electramotive drivers!!

Note a 2.5 L displacement engine!!

http://www.a2zracer.com/page82.html

I know in qualifying spec they where close or over 800 hp, hence 2.5 liter!!!!

 

I don't want to come off offensive but there are 800 hp lgatas out there.. since the 1980 even in japan!

Nevertheless your engine rules as none have cost 3200 .. and they all cost weeks if not months of work to get there

 

If i make 380 to wheels at that psi number with my sct combo im happy !!

[ihatejoefitz]

"According to a Road & Track road test, the 580 horsepower turbocharged straight six Datsun engine pushed the 2600 lbs. car from 0-60 mph in 3.8 seconds. It turned 131 mph the SS¼-mile in 11.5 seconds. Eventually, the engine made almost 700 horsepower which surprised many a Porsche 935."

 

~http://www.a2zracer.com/page82.html

 

This Modern Jun drag s30 is only making ~560Hp with nitrous.

 

~http://www.zzzing.net/jun_auto_sales/

 

Maybe Tony D could share some information on what the japanese were able to get out of these engines during the 80's. edit: tony beat me to it

---

 

I'm not trying to jack your thread or knock what you've created. It's an obvious improvement, that can't be argued.

[1 fast z]

It will be up there with those guys, and it may surpass my expectations. Like said these are STOCk T3's STRAIGHT from the junkyard. And with a ROUGH tune, like tony said with a better compressor housing/wheel, 20 PSI is ALOT more CFM flow. This is the first time on the dyno, and hadnt even messed with spark at all at this point. I need to find another dyno shop that can actually give me some TIME on the tool, so I can get it tuned where I want it. I envy jeff, for paying so cheap on the dyno, and having so much time! Maybe we should setup some dyno time around next MSA! haha. This is also all "back yard" engineering with less in my entire vehical than most people spend on a good head rebuild/port job! Im far from finished fellas.