Interesting V6 option

[Gollum]

Ok, I've found a GOOD motor (thanks rudypoochris) that has nearly NO mention ever on this website that I could find.

 

It's the "essex" V6 from ford, specifically the version in the supercoupe and the cougar XR7.

 

Stats:

 

230HP 330lbs

3.8 Liter

Pushrod Design

12V motor

Iron block

Alum heads

Roughly 70k donor cars made

 

Ok, the really good parts here are that ford redesigned nearly the entire motor to be beefier for the supercoupe version. There's also quite a bit of info out there on modifying these motors since they're the same V6 engine in the mustang. The supercoupe version is quite superior in stock form than the mustang motor and should be capable of as much power as you'd really need in a street Z.

 

One of the things I'm going to be looking into next is what ECU it uses and if it's as tunable as the 5.0 motor's ECUs. It's the right time frame (89-95) but I just haven't found the info yet.

 

The main flaw in these supercoupe motors is that the exhaust is EXTREMELY limiting, and at just 12psi from the SC the exhaust is pushing air into the INTAKE during valve overlap. The heads have been known to fail when the engine is mostly stock running high boost, but the exhaust is widely blamed in the supercoupe crowd. As long as you keep the engine breathing you should be able to run the stock supercharger pretty hard.

 

There's also a compnay that makes an adapter to fit the 03-04 cobra supercharger which has more pully options and is higher volume. Havn't seen many people with these setups but it seems like a good option as these superchargers as easily availble and affordable.

 

Conclusion:

 

If you're looking for a SMALL motor with a good solid foundation for upgrading this could very well be it. It's force induced from factory so the compression starts low, and the bottom is beafy. The super high production numbers of the engine in general mean that many performance parts are easy to come by (cams, rods, rockers, etc). It also has the potential to rival the best buick turbo 6 setups if someone puts the same time and money into it

 

Me and Chris (rudypoochris) saw one once in a picknpull, so I gather they're not impossible to find for a really low price. Entire cars can be had for $1500 in good running condition.

 

 

 

If anyone has info, opinion, or ideas please share.

[BillZ260]

I digg

[V8INtheZ]

My opinion is to go with something else. Ask anyone who has owned a 3.8L Ford for a while. Cast iron, block, and ali heads...

 

They lose headgaskets like no other engines. After 10+ years of the consistant HG failures, Ford decided to add forced induction. The supercoupes are stronger, but you still have the same weak problem....

[Gollum]

Ali heads by principal aren't a problem on iron blocks. Yes these engines DO have gasket problems, but i've reseached the problem a bit. As long as you take the precautions it's not an issue (open up the exhaust a TON, run a good and big radiator, watch the temp)

 

And also, some people say these motors don't have good aftermarket because they're such a small run, but the reality is that I can find ported and polished heads for less than $800 because they're compatible with the V6 heads off the mustangs and there's probably over a million of these V6 motors from ford.

 

The supercoupe version is strong, which will help what the BOTTOM is capable of, the head is another issue all together. But even with the stock heads putting on better exhaust before raising boost should be enough to tame this beast.

 

I just wonder why this motor hasn't gotten any attention from people on this board. Ok, so it has one flaw that's FIXABLE and minor, why the utter lack of support.

 

You could say just as many equally bad things about many of the choice motors on this site.

 

I'm definately putting this motor at the top of my list of options if I get a 240Z down the road. Even if it DOES blow a gasket or crack a head, I can get better ported heads and do what all the guys running high hp with these motors does, install a GOOD 3 piece metal head gasket and use arp studs.

 

Still seems to me that it's a motor that's kinda the bastard of family for ford. Nobody trusts it, nobody likes it, and there's plenty of other ford motors that can make more power. But i'd argue that NO ford motor and FEW motors worldwide provide such a nice combination of power, weight, size, and price.

 

Though I must admit V8intheZ, that you've turned my attention to the turbo 4 ford motor, and I'm interested what kinda power could be made with a strictly garage based build done for next to no investment.

[JMortensen]

Still seems to me that it's a motor that's kinda the bastard of family for ford. Nobody trusts it, nobody likes it, and there's plenty of other ford motors that can make more power.

This sentence should get your spidey sense tingling. Why do you think it's the bastard child? Probably not because it's so damn cool that it makes all the other engines look bad...

[Gollum]

I'm not saying it's some hard core amazing motor. But to some people (like me) a V8 isn't always the way to go as you can sometimes get your power request out of a smaller and lighter package.

 

I mean, just in my 2 days worth of research in my spare time at work i've found a larger tuning base and people running high HP than you can find for the L series.

 

The L series isn't a bad motor and many people here can attest to that. Sure, the L series needs major headwork if you want high NA hp, and isn't the simplest of motors to modify when it comes to the turbo motors, and it's very DIY. Does that make it a bad motor?

 

Ford had overheating issues with these motors, why should that grind all possabilities to a stop?

 

There's guys making pretty impressive power with these motors and there's a wide variety of options for nearly any part for the motor. Obviously it has tuning support, so why hasn't it shown up on the radar for people here as a swap choice?

 

I'm not here to start a debate. I started this thread to see if there was any REAL evidence as to why people here don't talk about this motor other than to say "it has gasket issues, don't use it", but yet the only people here who talk about it either don't have direct exerience, or they work in a shop that sees them all the time.

 

Well I've got answers to both of those.

 

To people that don't have direct experience - would you ask someone on zcar.com about the reliability of the SBC?

 

To the people that have seen too many with blown gaskets - it's one of ford's most common engines and it wasn't designed to take overheating, what else do you expect to happen?

 

So someone, please chime in and give me a concrete reason to disregard the motor.

 

Again, I'm not trying to start anything, so sorry if I don't seem civil. I'm just trying to get to the root here (i'll be scouring more soupercoupe forums looking for head issue threads).

[rudypoochris]

There isn't anything inherently wrong with any motor, everything has its plus and minuses. I like V8's they are cheap, plentiful, and have huge after market support. Which are the primary reasons I chose to use one. That motor is a perfectly fine motor for an engine swap imho. It just won't be as cheap to modify to turn huge numbers I would think. Once you hit around 350-400hp I would imagine you would be all on your own. An engine like an SBF or SBC on the other hand can go very far using common aftermarket parts.

 

Spend some money and try it out. The Super coupes are every where in the JY. You can buy the M90 online for under $150 usually in fine condition... which brings one to the point, well why not just do the same with a V8? Stick an M90 on it. It is all about options, price, etc. Maybe this engine hasn't caught on yet just because it hasn't caught on, maybe there are hidden gremlins that need to be figured out... I think your going to have to be the one to find out yourself!

 

I do want a super coupe though just for fun. Come on, 330ftlbs!

[naviathan]

I'm sure on the head gasket issues you could use an MLS gasket (if it's not already available they can be made) and some ARP studs and that should take care of the issue. I don't know much about this engine, but I know head gaskets...

[rudypoochris]

I agree that the head gasket issue probably isn't a very big deal.

[510six]

My uncle is a T Bird SC nut and owns three of them, one is hottrodded with a larger intercooler, MAF,TB, injectors ,exhaust and the supercharger was rebuilt and blueprinted. Ford actually addressed the headgasket issue in later model 3.8 V6 engines going to a multi-layer stainless gasket.My uncles engine was upgraded with the later model headgaskets and has continued to run very strong for several years now.The earlier gaskets were prone to failure, even in non SC 3.8 Ford engines .My GF (now wife) 3.8 V6 Cougar HG failed at around 100k miles, talk about a major PITA.

[Pete84]

What does your uncles SC'ed Tbird run in the 1/4, dyno #'s?

[HowlerMonkey]

This is an evolution of the SHO v8.

 

Light and powerful in stock form.

 

[510six]

A Magnum Powers stage 3 kit was used on a bone stock engine with headgasket upgrade and made 335 rwh and 390 fpt. For a big heavy pig of a car it gets out of it`s own way. The weak link after the headgaskets in these car is the transmissions which tend to grenade if sticky tires are used with a heavy duty clutch.If it were a choice between the AOD and the Mazda 5 speed, I would choose the AOD.

[Gollum]

Thanks for chiming in 510six with regards to your uncle.

 

Chris spoke kinda what I already knew, which might be why people here just don't care enough about the motor. It isn't an affordable HIGH hp motor, but I just think it might be close to being the cheapest you can get that kinda power in such a small package.

 

Most people here have less than 300hp anyways right? I'd say a very small percentage of people on this board have less than 500, which puts this motor into their radar imo. Virtually all of the 4 cylinder crowd (which is growing) could have this motor on their list of options.

[V8INtheZ]

Hmm, you guys bring up several solid points. If you can eliminate the headgasket issue (there is no problem without a solution) it would be a great choice for a Z. The supercoupes weigh something like 3500 pounds and they move still. The amount of stress put on a 3.8 should be far less when installed in a Z...

 

Whats funny is the 3.8 should weigh about the same if not lighter then the Turbo 2.3 Im using, LOL

[V8INtheZ]

Just double checked the curb weight of the supercoupe, just under 3800 pounds its first year, then it got heavier!

[KRAYZ]

I posted this back in march,

and more people have surpassed the 500rwhp

 

3.8l Ford Revisited

Just a update for those looking to do this swap.

1.you want the 99-04 SPI motor from a mustang(or for more cubes a 4.2L from a E or F series)

2.If you have a older 3.8 the intake and heads interchange.

3.the head gasket issues were fixed by the factory by useing MLS gaskets on the SPI motors starting in 1996.

4.In the Mustang the hp was rated@190,but get this the Windstar minivan was rated @200(it has a different intake)

5.The mounts,trans.choices and assy. are the same as a 5.0L,Moderate aftermarket following(cams,ported heads&intakes,headers,turbo kits,superchargers,pistons,rods,rollerrockers,ect. )

6.You get even better engine setbackand you lose 80 lbs. from a stock 5.0L

7.There is a stock interenals TT3.8l making 450rwhp!!

here are some links:http://www.vmptuning.com/store/index.php?

http://www.supersixmotorsports.com/

http://rpm-mustangs.com/cart/home.php

http://www.moranav6racing.com/catego...?CategoryID=16

http://www.3.8mustang.com/forum/

http://www.v6power.net/vb/index.php

****Please keep in mind That other vender links most of the of the banter on the forums is"will this work or how many horses will this get me...But if you look there are some veterens with proven combos.

 

BTW good choice on the engine!!!

[Gollum]

Wow, thanks for the responce KRAYZ.

 

I think my big question still is what it's gonna cost to get good performance from it. My idea (if it were me doing the swap) would be to:

 

1) Get a Supercoupe motor for cheap ($500 or less I'd hope, more if it comes with ALL the wiring + ecu + ALL sensors)

 

2) Get some newer heads from a 99+ stang and change to a metal head gasket while I'm at it.

 

3) Raise the boost a bit and tune it the best I can and pray for power.

 

Of course there's other things that'd need to be done, like custom exhaust (or aftermarket that magically fits.... riiiiight), could fab up a nice intake system for it, fit the intercooler, etc.

 

But I'm wondering if it could reach 300hp cheaper than a 5.0 motor, based mostly on the fact that a 5.0 costs quite a bit more for an initial investment.

 

Even if it was slightly more expensive the weight savings might be worth it.

[KRAYZ]

Gollum,I have lots of info on the split port 3.8/4.2l just pm me, Btw the build up cost is less than a ported head stroker zL6 for a forged internal 3.8/4.2l and the sweet thing about it is there are 8 base model v6 mustangs sold for each v8gt which means plenty of spares

[KRAYZ]

This is the progress on my ford 3.8L v6. it will be twin turbo.