mull Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Has anyone ever done it? Just curious : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six_Shooter Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 I haven't actually seen this style suspension in person, read about, and most of what I have read is that it is inferior to even a straight axle set-up. Reasons were strangth of the universal joints, bulky, and something about the way the suspension reacted when going over a bump could cause th ecar to steer from the rear of the car. It has been a while since I read about it though. The only issue I see is getting the tube or link between each knuckle to fit under the S30 chassis. Might have to cut out part of the floor to make it work. unless you can place the link low, basically in line with where the LCAs are now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olie05 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 It certainly seems inferior to most independent rear setups. Just think, when the body rolls in a corner, you will no longer be able to have any negative camber gain to compensate for the body roll, since the relationship of the wheel to the axle is fixed. It seems you could compensate by adding some negative camber into the axle, where the hub mounts to the axle, but you would be stuck at that specific camber setting in all situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 This arrangement at least makes room for the link bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavy85 Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 This arrangement at least makes room for the link bar. Isn't that a Watt's linkage? Doesn't this have an advantage over typical panhard rod since the axle does not shift left/right with suspension travel? Or is this the same as De Dion? Cameron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six_Shooter Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 The watts linkage just locates the De Dion (or any axle) in relation to the body. A track bar could have been used here as well, and I'm sure that a wishbone locator could have been adapted to fit this style suspension. The De Dion part is that large bar that runs side to side, but uses a seperate diff, that would normally be used in a full independant set-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Unless I'm missing something isn't that car running leaf springs? What benefit would a watts linkage provide for a leaf spring rear suspension? Wheelman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 What benefit would a watts linkage provide for a leaf spring rear suspension? Shackles actually flex quite a bit, as do leaf spring bushings. If you take care of those issues with bearings and sliders instead of shackles, then I would agree that the watts link is pretty redundant. Can't tell what type of hangars the leafs are on in that pic though. De Dion is interesting. Competition Car Suspension by Staniforth actually says that Ferrari tried putting that suspension on a Formula One car in the 70s. I think the original concept was to reduce unsprung weight by attaching the diff to the chassis, and then using the tube in back to hold the spindles, and driving the hubs with halfshafts or CV's. Since more modern IRS setups have evolved it seems odd to mount the diff to the chassis to remove unsprung weight and then add a full width tube back in to hold the spindles. Not to mention why go to all that trouble and not have independent rear suspension? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 Just think, when the body rolls in a corner, you will no longer be able to have any negative camber gain to compensate for the body roll, since the relationship of the wheel to the axle is fixed. Live axle, De Dion, and beam axle suspension gain very little postive camber in roll because the axle basically stays parallel to the road surface while the sprung mass rolls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boodlefoof Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 I'm reading on my blackberry, so the pic above isn't that clear, but it looks like the car has a de dion tube, but the watts link only attaches between the diff and the frame... That doesn't make any sense... The diff should be solidly mounted to the frame and any lateral location device should be attached to the tube. Some leaf spring cars do use a watts or panhard, but doing so will create two competing roll centers. I have no experience with how that would effect driveability. Despite the lack of camber gain, a straight axle can perform pretty well. The de dion tries to reduce unsprung weight, but it seems to me like more trouble than it is worth, and may be more prone to flexing than a typical straight axle setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 Heard that someone was putting a de Dion axle into a Datsun 1600/510 but that was it, no more info. The only advantage I can think of compared to IRS is it could be setup to easily change the roll center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boodlefoof Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Re: my post above... I am looking on a real monitor now and see that the watts link setup does make sense (it is attached to the tube)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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