Mike Kelly's Zcar Project

[Bigdeezs]

Sorry to jump on the LS bandwagon but put the LS in for "resale" reasons and then drive the car at track as a last hurrah. We'll see if it gets sold after that.

 

My cammed LS1 has been solidly putting down 420 hp for years without issue except a spun rod bearing on a 140k LS1 that saw probably 50 bottles of N20 and countless 500whp passes in my 3800lb Blazer before it was ever put in the Datsun. The Datsun does nothing but hard canyon driving, track days and sporadic straight line racing all while demolishing GTRs, Corvettes, Lambos etc in all of those areas.  I have about 13k in it and I've had failures around the motor and that's about it. Most if not all the problems you've seemed to have involve that SBC and supporting equipment. 

[Mikelly]

You guys are all right, of course. I plan to resolve this motor and electrical problem ASAP.

 

Mike

[RebekahsZ]

I understand your pain (as much as I can)-you are probably the wisest amoung us. Ive thought about selling mine many times-theres tape residue in the back window from the last time ten years ago-didnt get a single offer at any price. Im back in love, but my finances have improved and that has taken a lot of pressure off of the brittle threesome that includes my wife, my car and me. Plus, age has chilled me out a good bit. Drag racing and autocrossing have also provided more inexpensive racing venues close to home and both venues are easier on the car than road racing. But, now that you have resolved the issue in your mind, just sell it as she sits. Don't put one more tool to it. Maybe one of us can afford to get a head start with our dreams. Be sure to put it on eBay with a big reserve and figure out how you can transport it internationally. But don't try to fix it-that will just add to your anguish. Dont part it out-that is the same thing. The next owner might want to put an RB or some other powertrain in it.

[seanof30306]

Mike, can I ask you a question?

 

If you had not had the persistent problems with the car; if it ran like it does when it's not screwing up, with only a reasonable amount of bugs, how high would your satisfaction level with it be? 

[Mikelly]

Sean, The satisfaction level would be reasonably high. I would then be allowed to focus on the areas of improvement and continued development of the platform. Instead I am simply wasting time and money. I was talking with Tom this afternoon about it. The chassis has potential but the gremlins have robbed so much of my ability to appreciate the creation. Time will tell but I know big changes are coming for me.

 

Mike

Edited July 7, 2013 by Mikelly

[seanof30306]

Mike, 

 

A couple of thoughts .....

 

First, it appears to me that the crankcase pressurization problem is one of, if not the most persistent of your gremlins.  You said the other day it was pushing oil out of the front main seal, and the oil pan.  Unless the problem is internal, swapping to an LS will not solve that problem, will it?

 

Before I pulled the engine, or considered a swap, or considered selling the car, or lighting it on fire, I'd talk to the chief engineer(s) at the manufacturer(s) of the components in your oiling system, and other road racers doing dry sump oiling with the same, or similar components.  There is something wrong there, and I cannot believe it is unique to your car.  If you swap to an LS without resolving the problem, you'll simply go from having a 383 with overpressurization problems to an LS with overpressurization problems.

 

I'd also recommend taking the advice you get with a grain of salt.  I'm on a lot of forums, and the information shared there is awesome, but in their zeal to help, many contributors can send you off on wild goose chases.  For example, I'm on a forum for my '89 Firebird.  This kid asked for help with his car, which had started skipping.  He was very thorough, and even posted video (with audio) of the car running poorly.  A number of very knowledgable people I consider gurus of GM TBI jumped in to help him troubleshoot the problem.  What followed was an ever-expanding discussion of TBI, ECM, and GM V8 theory, where the kid was directed to rebuild the throttle body (no help), replace the throttle body (no help), put in a new distributor (no help), put in new spark plugs (no help), replace the IAT (no help), replace the EGR (no help), replace the TPS (no help), put in a new ECM (no help), and on and on, and on.  After several days and over 8 pages of discussion and parts replacement, the kid finally learned that a friend of his had swapped two plug wires on him as a joke while he was changing the oil.

 

I'm not suggesting that you'd miss something so simple, I'm just saying that (A), you need to talk to experts.  You've already invested serious time and resources in trying to track down this problem, and you are a detail-oriented, thorough, skilled mechanic.  It's time to bring in a bigger dog, not a bunch of littler ones (no offense intended to any of the good-hearted people who offer their help so generously), and (, maybe it's time for a fresh set of eyes.  

 

Second are the electrical issues; something I have PLENTY of experience with while trying to fix my @#$%^&!!! KZ650 (now known as "Christine").  I can't tell you how many times I traced every single wire on my 30+ year-old wiring harness from the fuse box all the way to its termination point, cleaning connections and replacing wires until there was virtually no voltage drop, yet every time I thought I had it licked, within 400 miles, it ate a stator, rectifier, battery, or some combination thereof.  There was no new replacement harness available, so I finally bought a repop harness for a Z1 and adapted it to fit.  It was a miracle!  

 

I've followed your progress on this car closely, and the pics of the wiring you've done are beautiful.  Could the problem be elsewhere in the 40+ year-old original harness you're grafting onto?

 

Am I correct in thinking that almost all of the gremlins you've experience have been in either the oiling system or the electrical system?

 

Regarding the LS swap:  I think LSs in S30s are WAY cool, and I hope to do one some day, but you already have an awesome, 383 that makes plenty of power.  On the TBI forum I'm on for my Firebird, someone will ask how to make more power with their TBI, and invariably, someone from the carb forum will jump in and say "Stick a carb on it!".  The LS fanboys on here kind of remind me of that.  Their solution to virtually anything is "Stick an LS in it!".

 

They've spoken of the reliability of the LS, and yes, it is reliable (as long as we skip over the early-year LS1s and their oiling and bearing failure issues, which the LS fanboys conveniently fail to mention).  But seriously, any objective comparison of the two will show that, as reliable as an LS is, it is certainly no more reliable than the venerable SBC.  On top of that, your 383 is one of the coolest incarnations of the SBC, offering incredible torque.

 

Yeah, an LS is better.  It's lighter.  It has a far superior head design , and on, and on, and on.  The thing is, you've GOT the 383.  It's paid for.  It makes great power.  The car handles great with that engine in it.  Furthermore, you've yet to get any kind of return on your initial investment in it, or your 1500.00 reinvestment.  If you were to keep the Z, an LS swap would absolutely be the next logical level of evolution for the car, but the engine you have in it makes more than enough power, and offers more than enough reliability .... for now.

 

More importantly, the 383 is not the problem ... at least I don't think it is.  Mike, people have been racing small block Chevy's for over 60 years.  They've been racing them with dry sump oiling systems for at least 25 years.  There are no new problems with it.  I guarantee you, the trouble you're having has been run across, and solved hundreds, if not thousands of times.  Your challenge is to find that pre-existing solution, not engineer a new one.  Hell, if you're that disgusted with it, do away with the dry sump, and put in a high volume oil pump and a road racing oil pan with a good windage tray.  People were going fast on road courses, reliably, for decades before dry sump systems came about.  High technology is great, but if the tech ain't workin', go back to the old school.  In the laps I've seen you turn, it doesn't sound like you're going much past 6 grand.  Is the dry sump critical? 

 

Here's the one that drives me crazy ... stick an LS in it so you can get more for it on resale.  Really?  You estimated you could get 15 grand out of it if you parted it out as it sits.  If you were to put an LS in it, would you get enough more than that out of it to cover the costs of the swap, and make back more of what you've invested?  What about the time you'd have to put into it to do that?  It's no longer a labor of love, what value do you place on that time?  What about having to replace the front springs, and rebalance the car, the radiator, etc?

 

Mike, I play a lot of poker.  I consider myself to be a serious student of the game.  I also work in the poker industry, so I see people play the game well (very few), and I see people play the game poorly (the overwhelming majority of players; 95% lose money).  There are three poker axioms I feel are very relevant to your situation.

 

The first is "Emotion is the enemy of profit."  Poker places incredible psychological stress on you, and THE most important skill is emotional management.  The ultimate goal is to make all decisions with your intellect, then execute them with emotion (passion).  Your disgust, frustration and anger are still very evident in your posts.  That's not a criticism, I completely understand how you feel.  My point is, you have a ton of money and time and emotional energy invested in that car.  Any decisions you make regarding it, and your future with it are best made when you don't hate the damned thing as much as you do right now.  There's nothing pressing here ... throw a tarp over it and do something else for awhile if you need to.  Take a break.  Give yourself a little space.

 

The second is "The moment you become convinced you can't win, get out."  You often hear bad players making calls when they know they're beat because they feel they have too much "invested" in the hand to fold.  If you decide to get rid of the car, investing more time and money in an effort to take less of a loss on it is a bad idea,

 

The third applicable poker axiom is "Once you fold it, forget it."  Donkeys sit around the poker table lamenting poorly played hands, or hands they folded that would have won; asking the dealer to rabbit cards after the hand is over, etc.  Once a smart player dumps a hand, they hopefully learned a lesson from it, but they waste no time or energy on regret; they focus on the next hand.  If, after you've had time for your emotions to subside, you decide you are done with this car, then be done with it.  Don't waste any more time, money, or emotional energy trying to save some of your investment.  Part it out, at fair prices, not a fire sale, but your goal should be to have it out of your life as quickly, and with as little additional grief, as possible.     

 

Honestly, I hope that's not the decision you make, but I strongly feel any decision you make right now is not an optimal one.  Since you're not pressed to make one, why not wait?

 

Best,

 

SP

[Mikelly]

Sean, Answers to some of your assumptions below...

 

• For a recap, Let’s rewind to 2011.  I had issues with the carb not performing properly and the car not making the best of power.  So, I ditched that in favor of EFI in the winter of 2011.  In the process, we also found that the traditional 75amp alternator couldn’t keep up with the electrical installed in the car at the time.  Eventually I broke down and counted the consumable power of the electronics and found that the car needed a high output alternator to keep pace. 

 

• 2012 also saw that the fuel couldn’t keep up under heavy cornering.  So in the process of “fixing†the electrical issues, I went ahead and installed a “Black box†with fuel pump internally integrated into the fuel cell.  That unit fixed all fueling issues.  While I was at it, I replaced all the gauges, the wiring and the dash.  After all that was complete, late August time frame I was getting ready for the track when I checked the oil filter and found metal.  Then found that I had indeed swapped an oil feed/return line.  SO the motor was rebuilt with new rods and main bearings and rings.

 

• Motor was installed in December/January timeframe and I was able to get it running, but was trying to plumb the crank evac to first, the exhaust with didn’t work well, then thru the snorkel which DID work well but ended up choking power as reported during my dyno outing.

 

 

 

For some clarification, the car doesn't and has never had a drysump.  The motor is a simple 1st gen SBC with wetsump pan, Mellins Blue printed pump with high volume spring.  The oil system consists of a remote canton filter, remote Accusump that is a 2 Quart unit, and an oil cooler that sits infront of the radiator.

 

When the car was on the dyno 10 days ago we had ZERO issues with crank pressure. 

 

 

I had THREE car builders look at the car, and the only recommendation they made was that electrical pump, which when working, pulled enough crank case pressure out of the motor.  When not working, obviously there is ZERO vent which means no way for the pressure to escape, which in turn explains why oil is coming out of the seals.

 

 

As to the electrical issues, I rewired the car with SINGLE RUN full length, UNSPLICED wiring and soldered and shrinkwrapped all 9 of the circuits that are not associated with the FAST EFI system.  All of that electrical wiring was fine until this past week.  So obviously something has caused an issue, but it's simple to fix and I will troubleshoot that and move on.  The electrical side of the house is the least of my worries.  For the record there was ZERO factory wiring or plumbing when I got the car, and last summer when I removed the aluminum dash and harness, I converted everything to the FAST dash integration, along with all the above mentioned single strand runs.  Total of 9 circuits and no factory wiring.  In the process I documented all of the wiring, so again, it should be reasonably easy to resolve that issue at the track or at home.  I had the dash removed within 5 minutes and on the work bench.

 

As to whether the motor is or isn't a problem, my realities are as follows:

 

 

The motor/oiling issue has plagued the car.  I've had 4 solid mechanics look at the issue and all of them have been stumped at times, and then all of them have agreed that the solution applied should work.  I try the various solutions and they work, and then they don't for various reasons.  That said, I will bet large sums of money that the leak down numbers will come back within spec, yet again. One 2.5 mile ride in the car isn’t going to crack a ring.  The dipstick fortunately didn’t come unseated.  My opinion is that the motor and this car simply do not mix. 

 

I have owned this motor in various configurations since my very first engine swap in 1998.  The motor has been paid for over many years now.  Selling it and moving to something more current will only remove one aspect of the issue I’ve had with the platform.  But hey what do I know?  At this point emotion is certainly a part of it.

 

As to the “I can’t win†aspect of the project, Hey I don’t know a single person who wouldn’t feel equally frustrated given the chance to be in my shoes, and given the ride I’ve taken on this project.  That said, I choose to part the car out, I am 110% confident in the quote I can get for the sum of the parts.  If the car is running, I’ve been offered $25K TWICE in the past two years.  I will admit that I have regretted not selling it, but at times been as glad I didn’t. 

 

 

 

As to the comments about the LS1, here again, some info has been missed… I own an LS1 shortblock.  I own a pair of Ceramic Coated headers.  I own an LS6 intake and Nick Williams Tbody.  I also own a range of other LS1 based parts.  I need to have that shortblock freshened, and buy a set of heads/cam and install it.  I have a stock oil pan.  I also have the drysump pan I bought from Mark Icard.  And I’m VERY confident that the car with an LS1 in it would sell very well.   

 

But that 383 stroker will not be in that car once the electrical issues are resolved and the motor is running again.  I will pull it, sell it whole or part it out.  That motor, and I don’t care what side of the fence anyone is on with regards to which is better, but THAT motor will not be in THAT CAR any longer than it has to.  Time to move it off the table.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Mikelly

[pparaska]

The motor/oiling issue has plagued the car.  I've had 4 solid mechanics look at the issue and all of them have been stumped at times, and then all of them have agreed that the solution applied should work.  I try the various solutions and they work, and then they don't for various reasons.  That said, I will bet large sums of money that the leak down numbers will come back within spec, yet again. One 2.5 mile ride in the car isn’t going to crack a ring.  The dipstick fortunately didn’t come unseated.  My opinion is that the motor and this car simply do not mix. 

 

Mike, that last opinion is TOTALLY illogical.  It's a freaking IC engine.  If its built correctly and it's installed with the correct subsystems, it will undoubtably "mix" with the car just fine.  Again - a different design (LS vs SBC) will gain you nothing but less money in your pocket and an increased amount of time until you are back trouble shooting the subsystems that are giving you problems now.  A different engine with the same subsystems (i.e., breather setup) might have the same exact problems.

 

Sorry to be a hard ass but you're making an emotional judgement about the engine and the car.  Just because you have a pile of LS parts sitting there ready for much time and money to be spent on them doesn't mean that you SBC, if built correctly and having the correct subsystems connected to it won't do the job wonderfully with a minimum of time and money invested.

[PLATA]

>>>>>>  

[rsicard]

Mike, that last opinion is TOTALLY illogical.  It's a freaking IC engine.  If its built correctly and it's installed with the correct subsystems, it will undoubtably "mix" with the car just fine.  Again - a different design (LS vs SBC) will gain you nothing but less money in your pocket and an increased amount of time until you are back trouble shooting the subsystems that are giving you problems now.  A different engine with the same subsystems (i.e., breather setup) might have the same exact problems.

 

Sorry to be a hard ass but you're making an emotional judgement about the engine and the car.  Just because you have a pile of LS parts sitting there ready for much time and money to be spent on them doesn't mean that you SBC, if built correctly and having the correct subsystems connected to it won't do the job wonderfully with a minimum of time and money invested.

I second what pparaska has said.  Could not say it any better.

[Mikelly]

The subsystems that do not currently work will not remain, simple as that.  What will remain?

 

Coolant system, never been an issue.

 

Oil Cooler and oil filter assembly, they flow well and show ZERO issues with oil pressure which I log from the FAST efi.

 

The FAST efi.  It simply works, and works well AND is integrated with the data logger/dash display.

 

Transmission, it works.

 

What gets replaced? 

 

The Accusump will be replaced with either a dry sump (assuming I keep it) or nothing (assuming I sell).

 

Bellhousing/clutch/slave hydraulics (They won't work anyway with the LS1 style setup.

 

Illogical or not, that motor is nolonger an option. The options are replace the motor or part the car out. This is not up for debate.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Mikelly

[Mikelly]

Pete, My friend you haven't been fortunate enough to run your car hard enough at the track to know if it will or won't have issues like this or others, and neither has RSicard.  Guys you just don't know until you're pulling 1.5 Gs in a corner.  Matt Isbell has a TEAM that keeps him up and running.  Some of the dambdest things occur at these speeds and on a car 40+ years old, well you know, things are going to happen at a more frequent rate.  I'm fine with debugging, as long as I'm getting to enjoy SOME of the potential, but for god's sake LET ME SAMPLE SOME OF IT!!!!

 

You guys are in the "Old school" camp for the motor.  I get it.  It is what you have and what you know.  That's cool.  But that also means little to me at this point.  I want the car running and as close to OEM reliable as possible.  And oh, I want it to run faster and turn more rpm.  It isn't going to run the times I had hoped based on the numbers... It just ain't gonna do it, and it damned sure won't when peak power is at 5500 RPM.

 

It's time for a change... Car or motor... I'm temporarily picking motor in hopes that all the development in the car will pay off.  I have $10K to throw at this.  Hopefully that will "git-R-done".  If it doesn't, I'll be taking Keith's advice and putting it on Ebay and Racing Junk with some high price attached to it in hopes that some shake wants a unique car and doesn't care about the price.

 

Mike

 

Mike, that last opinion is TOTALLY illogical.  It's a freaking IC engine.  If its built correctly and it's installed with the correct subsystems, it will undoubtably "mix" with the car just fine.  Again - a different design (LS vs SBC) will gain you nothing but less money in your pocket and an increased amount of time until you are back trouble shooting the subsystems that are giving you problems now.  A different engine with the same subsystems (i.e., breather setup) might have the same exact problems.

 

Sorry to be a hard ass but you're making an emotional judgement about the engine and the car.  Just because you have a pile of LS parts sitting there ready for much time and money to be spent on them doesn't mean that you SBC, if built correctly and having the correct subsystems connected to it won't do the job wonderfully with a minimum of time and money invested.

Edited July 8, 2013 by Mikelly

[78zstyle]

Hey Mike, whatever decision you make is up to you.

 

Either way, it's been entertaining watching you drive, your car is cool and you are a superb driver.

[jt1]

Damn.

[pparaska]

Pete, My friend you haven't been fortunate enough to run your car hard enough at the track to know if it will or won't have issues like this or others, and neither has RSicard.  Guys you just don't know until you're pulling 1.5 Gs in a corner.  Matt Isbell has a TEAM that keeps him up and running.  Some of the dambdest things occur at these speeds and on a car 40+ years old, well you know, things are going to happen at a more frequent rate.  I'm fine with debugging, as long as I'm getting to enjoy SOME of the potential, but for god's sake LET ME SAMPLE SOME OF IT!!!!

 

You guys are in the "Old school" camp for the motor.  I get it.  It is what you have and what you know.  That's cool.  But that also means little to me at this point.  I want the car running and as close to OEM reliable as possible.  And oh, I want it to run faster and turn more rpm.  It isn't going to run the times I had hoped based on the numbers... It just ain't gonna do it, and it damned sure won't when peak power is at 5500 RPM.

 

It's time for a change... Car or motor... I'm temporarily picking motor in hopes that all the development in the car will pay off.  I have $10K to throw at this.  Hopefully that will "git-R-done".  If it doesn't, I'll be taking Keith's advice and putting it on Ebay and Racing Junk with some high price attached to it in hopes that some shake wants a unique car and doesn't care about the price.

 

Mike

Mike, I'm not here to argue about this, I just disagree with your assessment that a SBC can't meet your needs. Personally, I think with the right set of OE and/or aftermarket parts, an LS or SBC could meet your needs reliably.  A SBC can make more power and more rpm than your 383 is now.  But if you want an LS, then that's cool too!  Like I said offline, call up Mast or someone else reputable and tell them what you want to do and get a full bullet built for your needs.  This goes for the SBC route as well, by the way.  And do likewise for the subsystems that support the engine, whichever you choose.

 

I'm not married to the old school SBC, not by a long shot.  My next V8 will be something different. Maybe an LS. 

 

It doesn't matter that I haven't driven a Z at the speeds you have on track - there are just too many examples of the SBC making huge power and rpm reliably in high end racing environments at sustained corning, rpm and power levels.  For DECADES.

 

It sounds like you want more power and rpm now - that's a new requirement I hadn't heard before.  You could do it with a SBC, or an LS engine.  None of them will be OE.  Which engine has more circle track or road racing hours at elevated horsepower levels?  I'm going to have to say the SBC.  But the LS is getting there. 

 

It is probably true that at really elevated power levels an LS may have an advantage due to the inherent breathing capabilities of the cylinder heads.

But you could go SB2 as well...I digress.

 

Not trying to argue - because it's your car and money and time.  If you want to go LS, I'm all for it!

 

I just can't agree that a SBC couldn't do it reliably even at cornering, braking, power, speed, and rpm levels above where you are.  It's been done many, many times before.

 

I really look forward to watching the LS build/install and then watching the track videos of you hauling ass around the track, without having any more problems!!!!!

[Mikelly]

And the only argument I have to all of this is yet this car hasnt been able to achieve any of it and it is due to the lack of ability to get the crank vented properly. Which gets back to the root of why I am pulling and selling this motor. The arguments all make sense until you live the last three friggin' years, of which I have lived. I am done screwing around with and wasting time on this motor. In order to make the power I think I will need, I will have to replace a cam or heads or both and more hardware. So why the HELL not do it with the LS1 and gain the weight reduction on the powerplant in the process??? Not to mention resolving serious exhaust header clearance and flow issues in the process?

 

I know, I know, Its Mike being "Mike" again.

 

Mike, I'm not here to argue about this, I just disagree with your assessment that a SBC can't meet your needs. Personally, I think with the right set of OE and/or aftermarket parts, an LS or SBC could meet your needs reliably. A SBC can make more power and more rpm than your 383 is now. But if you want an LS, then that's cool too! Like I said offline, call up Mast or someone else reputable and tell them what you want to do and get a full bullet built for your needs. This goes for the SBC route as well, by the way. And do likewise for the subsystems that support the engine, whichever you choose.

 

I'm not married to the old school SBC, not by a long shot. My next V8 will be something different. Maybe an LS.

 

It doesn't matter that I haven't driven a Z at the speeds you have on track - there are just too many examples of the SBC making huge power and rpm reliably in high end racing environments at sustained corning, rpm and power levels. For DECADES.

 

It sounds like you want more power and rpm now - that's a new requirement I hadn't heard before. You could do it with a SBC, or an LS engine. None of them will be OE. Which engine has more circle track or road racing hours at elevated horsepower levels? I'm going to have to say the SBC. But the LS is getting there.

 

It is probably true that at really elevated power levels an LS may have an advantage due to the inherent breathing capabilities of the cylinder heads.

But you could go SB2 as well...I digress.

 

Not trying to argue - because it's your car and money and time. If you want to go LS, I'm all for it!

 

I just can't agree that a SBC couldn't do it reliably even at cornering, braking, power, speed, and rpm levels above where you are. It's been done many, many times before.

 

I really look forward to watching the LS build/install and then watching the track videos of you hauling ass around the track, without having any more problems!!!!!

Edited July 9, 2013 by Mikelly

[Madovic]

Mike, while I understand the logic some people are presenting here, the reality is that sometimes changing direction is the only way to get different results.  I'm not particularly in the SBC or LS camp, but clearly things have not gone your way on this project, which is sad.  Your and Matt Isbell's build threads are the two threads I make time to follow.  You both have astounding projects which always help me stay motivated on my project.

 

It is easy to get stuck fighting the same problems over and over again or variations on a theme.  Sometimes a somewhat significant change is the only way to look at the problem from the much needed different vantage point to resolve the issue.  I tend to believe sunk costs are sunk costs, you need to look at what is the best way to move forward, not the best way to save invested efforts.  Despite your evident frustration you seem to be doing a good job of making a plan to succeed rather than simply persevere or "stay the course".  Kudos to you IMO.  Even if you end up succeeding with a different car (not my personal preference FWIW) I hope to be able to follow your progress.

 

This is completely irrational, but I had a similar experience 25 years ago with a '57 Chevy that simply didn't like the 327 I put in it.  That engine had been fine in 2 cars before and 1 after but the '57 didn't like it (again I understand how irrational that is), did fine with the 396 after I got the steering linkage sorted though. 

 

Gook luck,

Tim

[pparaska]

... In order to make the power I think I will need, I will have to replace a cam or heads or both and more hardware. So why the HELL not do it with the LS1 and gain the weight reduction on the powerplant in the process??? Not to mention resolving serious exhaust header clearance and flow issues in the process?

 

I know, I know, Its Mike being "Mike" again.

Yeah, if you have to replace all of that stuff to get the power you need, A totally new engine, designed and built with the power and rpm levels needed is the best option!  So you might as well start with something lighter and easier to route the exhaust with, all else being the same, if so.

 

I wasn't aware of the "requirements creep" and that changes things considerably - only (some) of the shortblock would be useful at this point.

Edited July 9, 2013 by pparaska

[Mikelly]

Madovic, You captured it well my friend. 

 

Pete, It's just a hint of what I think is missing.  I'd have to spend more coin to get it where she needs to be... We'll see where  it ends up, but I'm thinking I need a change, motor or car.  If I could only get Mark Icard to buy it...

 

Mike

Edited July 9, 2013 by Mikelly

[mark]

Hey mike. Throw a number out there. Me and Tedder could get this up and running in a weekend. If that weekend were 15 years ago.