Mikelly Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 When it get's up into those HP levels it has more to do with driver and less with the cars. I'm under no illusion that I'm an average "beginner" driver and there are drivers out there that would run circles around me... I doubt I'll see very many experienced road course driving a 3850# (I'm being told the GT-R will actually weigh in at over 3900#) GT-R at the track... Nah, the few that will end up at the track will be in the hands of a few enthusiasts... The GT-R is seriously going to be a great car, in the same vane as the Supra and the NSX are. Problem is most of these cars won't end up on the track. The thing that gets me stirred up is when "fans" who will never buy or track these cars pick up the pompoms and want to cheerlead based solely on what they read in the magazines. Not seeing a lot of members here lining up to buy an $80,000 Nissan, and that is the biggest challenge Nissan has in front of them. Mike Hey mikelly, Is that when he laps you:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKWIKZ Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Mike, Come on man, I'm just messing with you. It was an easy way to prove that a car can be heavy and still be both loved and competitive on a track as we all have heard you raving about the abilities your Porsche has that were apparently lacking in both your C5 and BMW. As I see it, there is a much smaller difference in the 200# gap between 911 and GT-R than there is in the leap you took from 3200# C5 to 3600# 911. So I still find it comical that you are the one knocking a car for it's weight. You have to at least give me that. As for me, I really don't care. I never questioned Porsche when they released a 3600# 911. They are the ones with umpteen years of car design and racing experience. Who are any of us to say we know better? The car flat out performs and has done so for over 40 years now. Is Porsche going to just throw out a product without concern? Not a chance. I see the same with Nissan. The GT-R has been a world class car since it's introduction in '69. Each model of GT-R has stayed true to this. Yet people want to say Nissan is taking the car lightly now? Not a chance. The weight is a non-issue. As even you, Mike, have pointed out most owners of the new GT-R will not be visiting a track. And the ones that do will most likely do just fine. And I seriously hope you are not throwing me into your generalization of "fans" throwing up pom-poms. We have been good natured in most of our exchanges so far and I hope to keep it that way. My knowledge of the Skyline and it's history is far more than superficial and is not in any way contingent upon me purchasing a new GT-R. I very well may. If I decide I want one, there is little to keep me from doing so. But there is just as much possibility that I will simply keep playing with the "lesser" classic Skylines. I am not as intrigued with owning newer cars as others are. I have always enjoyed the classic body lines with a modern drivetrain as my primary toy. But that is just me. I am by no means the pre-eminent expert of the Skyline, but rest assured aside from Alan (HS30-H) I probably have more personal experience with Skylines than any one else on this site. And this makes me far more than just a "fan". Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Brian, It's like I stated earlier... There are brand fans and then there are Car fans. We pretty much know which one you are and which one I am. You've stated many times that you won't own anything that isn't made by Nissan. Me, I've owned 22 Datsun S30s. I've owned a number of toyota and honda products over the years, a few BMWs, a very competent Mustang, a well sorted Corvette, and a highly tuned and modified Porsche. The car does not make the man... And we can't sustain on just one meal all our lives, or we won't grow personally, now will we? I am not ready to hand Nissan $92,473.19 to be one of the first on the East Coast to have my very own Fat Prom Queen... Thought about it, hard... But I can't get past the weight, or the look of the car. In my opinion, Nissan blew it. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 +1 on the car fans vs. brand fans. I still can't wait for the car to come out though. The fact of the matter is that it hasn't though. The amount of speculation and estimates written as truths is staggering. Worries me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKWIKZ Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Mike, My personal persuasion does not take anything away from my point though, now does it? I've never said there are not other great cars out there, just that for me Nissans happens to make me happy. And are you really going to tell me that during the time you owned a C5 that most of your Corvette buddies would ever consider owning a Porsche or GT-R? I am doubtful. Remember, I grew up around Vettes. I learned how to drive in a C4. And not one of my fathers friends would ever consider owning anything other than a Vette. There are people out there that are open to different types of cars, but there are just as many, or more, brand loyal types out there. I am by no means uncommon. That is all I have tried to point out. As for you not paying out $92k, I doubt Nissan will have a problem filling your spot. I guess we'll all see in about a year, won't we? Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Brian, You're sooo in the wrong universe. Yes, there are Corvette Snobs who won't talk to me because I no longer own a Vette. There are Porsche snobs who think all vette owners wear gold chains and there are Mustang owners who think they're all pathetic people trying to compensate. And they're all wrong, and so are those who bow to the alter of Nissan. We founded this site on the ideal of not allowing Nissan PURIST SNOBS to have a loud voice here at HybridZ. There's a reason for that. I have friends I've met from Corvetteforum who also own Porsches. I also have friends I've met thru Rennlist and 6speedonline.com who also currently own corvettes and ZCARs. One of the best guys I know and call a Great car guy FRIEND owns a Porsche, a Corvette and a Zcar, Jim McNemar. You make a lot of assumptions that paint the picture of someone who has never owned another brand or been able to get past the idiots and see those who are the most open minded. Sad reality is the person you describe below would probably say the same about you, based on your statements and Nissan Purist attitude... Every single "CAR" or "BRAND" guy who has ever set foot in my shop or seen pics of my Z on other boards has asked for details about my project and has given me nothing but GREAT and POSITIVE comments about the car, the build quality and the project. Maybe your father should pick better friends, but don't lump all vette or porsche or other "car guys" in with a few bad apples your father chose as "friends"... Closed minds close doors, You've certainly closed one here. Mike Mike,My personal persuasion does not take anything away from my point though, now does it? I've never said there are not other great cars out there, just that for me Nissans happens to make me happy. And are you really going to tell me that during the time you owned a C5 that most of your Corvette buddies would ever consider owning a Porsche or GT-R? I am doubtful. Remember, I grew up around Vettes. I learned how to drive in a C4. And not one of my fathers friends would ever consider owning anything other than a Vette. There are people out there that are open to different types of cars, but there are just as many, or more, brand loyal types out there. I am by no means uncommon. That is all I have tried to point out. As for you not paying out $92k, I doubt Nissan will have a problem filling your spot. I guess we'll all see in about a year, won't we? Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TeamNissan Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 So um yaaaa how about that there zr-1 haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 As usual, another "great" content laiden post from you... So um yaaaa how about that there zr-1 haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TeamNissan Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Just trying to get it back on track after the wonderful jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I personally think that this will be an awesome car, BUT, I really wish they would focus more on reducing weight and stringing some extra ponies out of the LS7. Maybe by using a 32 valve setup as they did on the early 90's ZR-1. Alas I am far from Corvette's target audience... I wonder if the buyers feel the same way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 They don't need to string more ponies out of the LS7. As Jim's car will show when his 2008 Z06 is returned from LG Motorsports in early April, you can get at least 550 WHEEL hp from the LS7 (about 650BHP). They're installing a new cam, headers, new software programming and will dyno the setup to prove it! If you have money and can afford to buy and then modify a 2006-2008 Z06 (approx. $85K total investment in the above mods and price of car) you'll get viper performance. The ZR1 will weigh in at about 3300#. It will make a LOT more power and torque than other cars in its price range, and it will certainly have a power to weight ratio that is much more competitive than any other street car that will cost less than $150K. These are facts. The rest, truly speculation. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silversix Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I don't see anyone modifying a GT-R for at least 12 months After it hits the market and then it'll be significant time and money in R&D. Japanese tuners are already hard at work and they have a one year head start. The car that "Best Motoring" performed their test with is owned by "Mines". By the time the GTR drops here there will be an aftermarket! Even if that means importing from Japan for very high $$$. Thats never detered enthusiasts here in California; don't know how VA. works? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Best Motoring is known for their tongue in cheek spin. I don't put anymore stock in their show than I do David Letterman. As to the other comments, the proof will be in the pudding come November. I'll be at SEMA this year, and if there's a huge push for tuning this car, we'll see it then. I believe there will be a styling and bolt on market, especially for wheels, wings, and spoilers... But from what Ive read and been told, the computers in the car are extremely sophisticated and even Nissan doesn't plan a "NISMO" Hp tuning kit at this point. It's all speculation at this point. I will believe it when I see it. Then again, I would have never thought that tuners were getting 700-900 hp out of the 996TT porsche and now I own one, so goes to show what I know. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Yes, there are Corvette Snobs who won't talk to me because I no longer own a Vette. There are Porsche snobs who think all vette owners wear gold chains and there are Mustang owners who think they're all pathetic people trying to compensate. And they're all wrong, and so are those who bow to the alter of Nissan. We founded this site on the ideal of not allowing Nissan PURIST SNOBS to have a loud voice here at HybridZ. There's a reason for that. LOL! ^^ P.S. I was assuming your experience and modded porche would be killing that car, unless you clone yourself and he modded that nissan. Now that would be a track event I'd like to see! Can I make an assumption here, the more powerfull the car, the more experience need to use it?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEvilrps13 Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 20$ to the first person on here to get that engine in a Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators BRAAP Posted February 13, 2008 Administrators Share Posted February 13, 2008 20$ to the first person on here to get that engine in a Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I like the new ZR1. I don't think it's worth the extra $$$ though. Like mike said (and I've agreed on him wholey thus far in this thread about all the GTR drama) it's better to just start with the ZO6 and dump your money into modding that. I think we here must be a VERY different market than companies are actually marketing and selling to. Becuase if WE were a truly influential piece of the market GM would sell a STRIPPED version of the ZO6 and THEN add performance. I still spy a little computer screen on the ZR1, which to me just doesn't belong there. Though another issue I have is with many companies is that they're willing to CHARGE you for putting LESS on the vehicle. I hate track versions of cars that come with a minimal 5% power increase (if at all), remove a bunch of stuff you don't need, add a few carbon parts, and then want to increase the vehicle cost by 15+%. See, if GM wanted to sell cars to OUR crowd, they'd put a LS2 in a completely bare bones solstice or sky, and then sell it for 30k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WickedWild Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 See, if GM wanted to sell cars to OUR crowd, they'd put a LS2 in a completely bare bones solstice or sky, and then sell it for 30k. I've been screaming this for a year! I want a hatch back sky with a tubo echotec or LS2... They have all the parts, they have the market for this car, but we get the Colbolt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 See, if GM wanted to sell cars to OUR crowd, they'd put a LS2 in a completely bare bones solstice or sky, and then sell it for 30k. "Our" crowd isn't GMs target audience. We aren't Nissan's either. Any of you guys want to dig up some of the old posts from 2002 about the 350Z??? Most of us felt the same way about that abomination of a new car platform. Now we've "accepted" it. All the "fans" are flipping out over the power levels of the GT-R. Yet none will buy it because it's gonna be about $80K out the door in three years... I know exactly how much my local dealer wants for one right now, and that price will probably stay above the MSRP for atleast another year. And even when it does come down, how many HybridZ members will buy one? Our crowd likes to tinker. Hell, My wife damned near had heart failure when 12 weeks into owning my Vette, I had every piece of suspension torn off it and was knee deep i a Z06 Suspension Swap... She had similar experiences when I removed the rear of the Porsche to install new boost hoses and when I upgraded the brakes recently to 6 piston units... Everytime she's seen me do something like that, she's asked "I thought the car was perfect when you bought it, that's what you said"! Point of all this BS bitching and moaning about these cars is that most of our members don't want the damned cars anyway, just the parts off the wrecks that will become available when some hack idiot puts it into a guardrail and totals it. The manufacturers aren't building cars to our customer market because we don't exist in their eyes. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 "Point of all this BS bitching and moaning about these cars is that most of our members don't want the damned cars anyway, just the parts off the wrecks that will become available when some hack idiot puts it into a guardrail and totals it. The manufacturers aren't building cars to our customer market because we don't exist in their eyes. Mike Oh trust me, I understand and completely agree. I guess that's what my point kinda was about the ZR1. Sure it's cool, but no matter how cool most of us think it is odds are nobody who hangs out on this board will ever own one. I'm still split on what to think of the new GTR, and if I had the money I'd be, like you mike, considering buying one and talking with the local nissan dealer. But at the end of the day I'd rather build a 2500 pound FFR GTM with a LS7 motor. It's just cooler in many ways, more unknown, "build it" yourself, etc. Who's with me when I say "lets forget all manufactures and start our own brand"? The home built hybrids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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