bjhines Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 I purchased a SPAL Pulse Width Modulation fan controller for $65 from an online Circle Track supplier. The thing is heat sinked and uses transistorized control circuits to slow the fan down and draw less power when it is not needed. It will also keep the fan turning enough to ensure it does not block flow through the radiator core when the fan is NOT on and the car is moving. I was unsure of a lot of things about it's operation, but I ordered one anyway. It came with a bunch of premade harnesses to hook it up. The first thing I found was that the wiring harnesses that come with the unit were poorly assembled. There are literally pins bent and improperly seated in the Weatherpack connectors. This will make it impossible to hook it up with the wires they sent in the box. Obviously I can make new connectors, but this was very frustrating. Here is one pic of the main power harness. The other problem is with the sensor harness. Another issue I have is that the blister switches and indicator lights are mounted with a sticker that has only partially adhered to the case of the unit. They went to all that trouble with the wiring to make it weather proof, yet the switches to control the unit are openly exposed. Whatever happened to the sticker adhesive has ruined it for good. It simply will not stay stuck. I will seal it down with some adhesive, but again this is an issue I did not want to deal with. I decided to call SPAL to get them to send new harnesses and a new switch/indicator sticker. This seemed like an easy fix for the problems to me. I also had a few questions about the way they control the fan in their cicuit. The technician was single track minded with intent to get me off the phone as quickly as possible. The first thing out of his mouth was "Return it to the store, not to us". I informed him that I would have to pay shipping to send it back and I thought there was a better way to deal with the problems. I could barely get another word in before he told me that they do not make that unit anymore, and he could not do anything with it. They have moved on to another version. I asked him if he could PLEASE check into the parts and get back to me. He finally said he thought they could get more harnesses sent but the switch-sticker was not something they could send me. I said OK send what you have. God forbid I would have another question for this A-hole. I pinned him down on answering another question about their control circuit and he just brushed it off without an answer. In fact he told me he had things to do and could not do anything else for me. I asked about their new version and I got some crazy comment about it is still in testing and there are no new features. I have dealt with many, many small scale manufacturers in the electronics industry. The person I spoke with at Spal USA was a pain. If that is how they want to do their business I will never deal with them again. Judging by the number of problems I have had with the SPAL assembly quality, I will not touch another SPAL product again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 This just goes to show you your company is only as good as the person answering the phone. I bought a power window kit and central locking system from Spal. I was totally blown away by the quality. I had some questions about the hook up and the tech emailed me schematics and walked me through the whole process. I had to call him back for some more info and he was as nice as could be. I can never understand why employers put up with tech people with bad attitudes. I'm so sick of people who are being paid to help me treating me like it's a bother so now I'm starting to call them on it. Our country is now based on it's service industry and we're rapidly flushing that down the toilet. Derek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 I would likely not be on the phone if it were not for their poor assembly and QC. They are as poor as their product and their unwillingness to deal with the quality issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careless Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Hmmmm... With all this trouble, I may just ask my dad to build a working unit. LOL. =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Cool product anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 OK... I am using this thing unless I decide to use it to drive a waterpump instead. The PWM can handle 30Amps. That is not enough to run the 1992Ford taurus 3.8L cooling fan on HIGH SPEED. It will do just fine for LOW speed. I intend to use high speed for the fan as well. I would like the PWM to control high speed operation through a relay. This would seem easy enough, except that the PWM fan harness must return ground back through the unit. The High speed relay would need ground to go directly to ground. I also do not want both the high and low speed terminals on the fan wiring getting voltage simultaneously. --------------------------------------------------------------------- These problems can be solved, But I really wish there was an easier way to accomplish this. This is a diagram of what I have so far. I am lifting the PWM entirely out of the fan circuit when the secondary fan(grey wire) is activated by the PWM. The PWM will drive a resistor(~16 OHM), when the high speed side is switched over. The relays for this are SPDT 40Amp NO terminals and 20A NC terminals. They have considerable inrush rating of over 100A on both terminals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I am completely lost when it comes to wiring diagrams and figuring out how to have a fan controller drive a fan that uses more amps than the rated controller. Once you get this one figured out, if you don't mind, do you think you could compile a quick items list so I can go about wiring up my Taurus fan? Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted February 22, 2008 Author Share Posted February 22, 2008 This is not entirely worked out yet. 1. I would like to supress spark across relay contacts. This can be done but I will have to study up. 2. I would like to find an affordable, multi-pole relay to simplify some of this. It may not turn out to be cheaper or better. I have a 4 relay box that will house them just fine. But then I need yet another relay box for the ignition, headlights, etc. 3. I don't know if the motor Diode will do anything for me. I would have to add another to the low speed wire. This would be revision II. Notice the resistor-capacitors across the relay contacts for inductive loads. I am thinking that a 50mfd capacitor and a 3ohm resistor across the switch contacts will be sufficient. ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I purchased a SPAL Pulse Width Modulation fan controller . It will also keep the fan turning enough to ensure it does not block flow through the radiator core when the fan is NOT on and the car is moving. If the fan blocking airflow through the radiator when the fan is off is a concern then a resistor to supply just enough power to keep it turning should work. That is how the heater motor is speed regulated. As trick as all the IC controlled devices are they do fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted February 22, 2008 Author Share Posted February 22, 2008 The fan controller supplies constant 12V to the Red fan power wire in the SPAL fan harness. The Spal PWM varies the ground resistance between 1Mohm and ~.05 ohms. That is the problem with hooking it up along with a relay to control the high speed fan wire. That is also how they manage to keep it turning even when it is essentially off. Anyway. Here is the revision 3 version of the wire diagram. The relays are rated for 40A on the NO terminals but they are only rated at 20A on the NC side. I had to reverse the NC-NO contacts on the SPAL PWM fan drive relays. This adds yet another relay dammit. I think I can get my hands on a suitable DPDT relay that will still do the trick current-wise for the low speed circuit. ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted February 22, 2008 Author Share Posted February 22, 2008 At this point I am thinking that a custom, solid-state, 2-speed-fan controller might be cheaper and more reliable. There begin to be problems with timing the various make and break relay contacts. I have a box of various power transistors and some heat sink extrusion. That is a 2 week project at least. Hmmm... A simple 555 or 7555 timer IC has duty cycle on square wave functions. I think it varies by resistance between two pins. The temperature sender units all start at high resistance when they are cold and the resistance drops as they warm up. There is your duty cycle right there. There are also alarm functions on the 555 IC that could trigger the switchover to the high-speed fan-wire. I would prefer to vary the 12V signal and allow direct grounding at the fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Careless Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 At this point I am thinking that a custom, solid-state, 2-speed-fan controller might be cheaper and more reliable. There begin to be problems with timing the various make and break relay contacts. I have a box of various power transistors and some heat sink extrusion. That is a 2 week project at least. Hmmm... A simple 555 or 7555 timer IC has duty cycle on square wave functions. I think it varies by resistance between to pins. The temperature sender units all start at high resistance when they are cold and the resistance drops as they warm up. There is your duty cycle right there. There are also alarm functions on the 555 IC that could trigger the switchover to the high-speed fan-wire. I would prefer to vary the 12V signal and allow direct grounding at the fan. so would this run in monostable or a-stable... im trying to make sense of the circuit i researched when trying to design my own turbo timer =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted February 22, 2008 Author Share Posted February 22, 2008 The whole idea of the PWM(pulse width modulation) control is based on A-STABLE high frequency pulses that have a variable duty cycle. I suppose that monostable operation would come into play when the fan is OFF or 100% ON. I checked on parts. I have a few various high power transistors. But to get up to 500Watts for the high-speed wire on the Taurus fan I will need 10 output devices in parallel. G-dammit. That gets unreliable. There are more powerful devices available but they cost $20 EACH. That can get costly as I try to find the limits of the system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted February 22, 2008 Author Share Posted February 22, 2008 Here is a diagram of what I believe the SPAL PWM is doing inside their little black box. It is likely MOSFET controlled and VERY simple. ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted February 22, 2008 Author Share Posted February 22, 2008 I found a master list of everything the highly desireable Taurus fan comes on. This would make a great JY master pull list. Radiator Fan Assemblies Item Number Description -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- DORMAN PART NUMBER 620-101 1995-90 Taurus, Sable, Continental -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Detailed Applications Year Make Model Engine Application Note 1995 MERCURY SABLE V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1995 FORD TAURUS: SE V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1995 FORD TAURUS: LX V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1995 FORD TAURUS: GL V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1994 MERCURY SABLE V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1994 LINCOLN CONTINENTAL: SIGNATURE V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1994 LINCOLN CONTINENTAL: EXECUTIVE V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1994 FORD TAURUS: LX V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1994 FORD TAURUS: GL V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1993 MERCURY SABLE V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1993 LINCOLN CONTINENTAL: SIGNATURE V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1993 LINCOLN CONTINENTAL: EXECUTIVE V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1993 FORD TAURUS: LX V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1993 FORD TAURUS: GL V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1992 MERCURY SABLE V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1992 LINCOLN CONTINENTAL: SIGNATURE V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1992 LINCOLN CONTINENTAL: EXECUTIVE V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1992 FORD TAURUS: LX V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1992 FORD TAURUS: L V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1992 FORD TAURUS: GL V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1991 MERCURY SABLE V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1991 LINCOLN CONTINENTAL: SIGNATURE V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1991 LINCOLN CONTINENTAL: EXECUTIVE V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1991 FORD TAURUS: LX V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1991 FORD TAURUS: L V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1991 FORD TAURUS: GL V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1990 MERCURY SABLE V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1990 LINCOLN CONTINENTAL V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1990 LINCOLN CONTINENTAL: SIGNATURE V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1990 FORD TAURUS: LX V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade 1990 FORD TAURUS: GL V6 - 3.8L (232 CID): GAS: FI: N: 4 Incl. Shroud, Motor & Blade -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chemicalblue Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I am running the Spal unit in my car and it works great. The unit was well assembled and had non of the issues you are writing about. My temp is stable +/- 5 deg. and the fan never reaches the highest output setting. Maybe you got one that was assembled on a FRI and the tech just didn't care. As for the customer service, that SUX. I would just pay the 5 bucks and send it back and have the store check out the new one before it is sent out. Sorry about your Trouble man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chemicalblue Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I was just looking at you pics The unit I have only has the Fan and Temp Sensor wires terminated.??? The rest of the loom was just un-terminated wire. Is yours a special version or model specific? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janaka Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 For what its worth, probably not much, I have a Spal power window kit in my Z and its fantastic. Connectors were great, worked first try (which is amazing if you knew me lol) and was straight forward to use. I hope that you get this figured out. Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted February 22, 2008 Share Posted February 22, 2008 I am running the Spal unit in my car and it works great. The unit was well assembled and had non of the issues you are writing about. My temp is stable +/- 5 deg. and the fan never reaches the highest output setting. Do you have the highest output setting wired up though? Or are you running low speed only? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjhines Posted February 22, 2008 Author Share Posted February 22, 2008 I tested current through the fan on both speeds. I placed the fan on the radiator that it is to be used with to make the tests. Low speed draws 16.5 Amps @14.2V error is only +/-1.5% Hign speed draws 38.7 Amps @ 14.2V same range setting +/-1.5% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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