Noddle Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I just watched a training video "Metal Casting Die Casting", very interesting stuff, here are some images, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 The first two shots are "lost foam casting". In the head picture you can see the different EPS foam pieces assembled. The picture of the block has already been dipped in slurry and ready to be backed up with dry sand. I do a fair amount of lost foam casting. It's really a very cool technique. Derek I just watched a training video "Metal Casting Die Casting", very interesting stuff, here are some images, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 Curiously to throw a SOHC rock in the mix here, has anybody gotten flow numbers from the FIA L6 Non-Crossflow Head? The key to power is flow, and while valve area makes for nice flow at low lifts so you can rev higher....having a stable valvetrain in the SOHC well past 9K begs the question 'just how high do you plan to rev the DOHC'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 fast z Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 A crossflow head will always yeild more power than a non cross flow, because the cylinder gets purged MUCH better especially on overlap. Area above the valve for atmospher packing is also another big key. A valve does not really flow on the backside at all as well. Just some food for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoov100 Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 i wonder how well your head would work NA and with triple webers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Posted March 31, 2008 Share Posted March 31, 2008 I'm sorry if it's off the topic, but I'm curious about one thing. If I remember correctly, the SOHC and DOHC KA heads are basically interchangeable. The KA24DE DOHC head is somewhat more complicated than the KA24E head, as it has one more cam, four more valves, and many more moving parts. If so, then wouldn't a SOHC head based on the KA24E unit be simplier to build and modify? I remember 1_fast_z's diagram showing the differences in flow between standard and modified L and KA SOHC/DOHC heads, and even though the SOHC head didn't perform as well as the DOHC head (especially ported), it was still much better than the L-gata heads. Apart from not having two overhead cams, the SOHC head should be good enough for performance applications. So, would it be worth it to cast such head instead of a DOHC head? Then again, when I think of it, the cost of casting a SOHC head would be just as big as when going the DOHC way... It's just the components that would be cheaper. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 actually, the SOHC is the head nissan chose to support with NISMO. if you look at the NASPORT GT3 series, the KA24E was puting down in excess of 250rwhp naturally aspirated. of cousre, that was with MASSIVE port work, custom crank and all that, and a set of 50mm mikunis. the reason for going with the KA24DE head as opposed to the E head (at least for me) was availability of camshafts that could be easily modified to fit VS. having one custom made. wouldnt the DOHC valvetrain be more stable than an SOHC valvetrain as the DOHC is direct acting and ditches the whole rocker arm assembly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Trust me I did look, and I actually do have an RB26 head just laying around... You guys actually think I put thousands of hours of R and D into my head without reaseraching every possible angle... You could not use a manifold system from a BMW or Merc, because they ARE 2 INCHES TWO SHORT, and spacing is WAY off. If you were to base it on a manifold design, RB would be the ONLY way. Thanks for the comments about the manifolds, i was throwing the names around for potential sources, its good to have a good answer on that. on the RB head issue, it would take as much, if not more modification to put an RB head on an L block as it would to make the 1.5KA24 head. I have an RB25DE engine in my possession (snapped timing belt, bent valves) and i still chose the KA route. also, the mercedes 280C is a no go. 2 inches shorter than an L series (bore spacing is too tight) and all the bimmer I6s have diff head bolt spacing and diff bore spacing. I spent years in pick a part type junkyards researching I6 engines when I ran across various engines and the KA method was the most viable alternative when I brought this project to 1 fast Z many moons ago, and still remains the best way to tackle a 24v head for the L6. Thanks for your input as well; it would be so nice for some cast fruition to come out of this, but unless someone who does casting work has time and effort to dump in, it looks like this thread IS just becoming an internet masturbation exercise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted April 5, 2008 Author Share Posted April 5, 2008 As I said before, get me a good set of solid models, and I can *probably* prototype a casting in 9-12 months. Nothing totally concrete, but I am no stranger to this kind of work. I pour the castings myself, so it's not as thought I can make a production run, but verifying patterns and ideas, I can do. I actually am already working on drawing up a KA24 cylinder head and then doing the cut-paste work to get as 6 cylinder version going, but it's slow work. If the thread drops back, i'll post an update as things happen, but as for now, 1FastZ's services are the best way to get a DOHC head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerAce Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 So, why can't we use that Paeco-Goerz head? My understanding is that basically everything that is needed is already there but the molds... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 So, why can't we use that Paeco-Goerz head? My understanding is that basically everything that is needed is already there but the molds... Because there's ONE in existence... And the owner "Richard" has gone underground, I havent' seen hide nor hair from him since he came trying to make a quick buck off his SanDiego Swap Meet Find... Other than that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerAce Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Because there's ONE in existence... And the owner "Richard" has gone underground, I havent' seen hide nor hair from him since he came trying to make a quick buck off his SanDiego Swap Meet Find... Other than that... Ah, got it. For some reason I was under the impression that you had it. My mistake....move along people, nothing to see here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wherezmytofu Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 how much was "richard" trying to sell it for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wherezmytofu Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 As I said before, get me a good set of solid models, and I can *probably* prototype a casting in 9-12 months. Nothing totally concrete, but I am no stranger to this kind of work. I pour the castings myself, so it's not as thought I can make a production run, but verifying patterns and ideas, I can do. I actually am already working on drawing up a KA24 cylinder head and then doing the cut-paste work to get as 6 cylinder version going, but it's slow work. If the thread drops back, i'll post an update as things happen, but as for now, 1FastZ's services are the best way to get a DOHC head. but you seem the best way to get an aluminum block @_@ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 but you seem the best way to get an aluminum block @_@ If you get him a good set of solid models from which to work, he is. Otherwise, it is No one else seems to believe it a worthwhile investment of time or effort. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but if we don't keep this thread somewhat "realistic" then it will get shut down for the BS pipe dream that it basically is. Xnke, IF you could somehow get the blueprints for the P-G head, would that simplify the affair? I haven't the time at the moment of this post, but the next time I review this thread I Will re read the whole thing and see if i can wrap my head around finding a way to make these solid models happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted April 7, 2008 Author Share Posted April 7, 2008 Yes, getting any kind of prints would be helpful. I spent most of yesterday drawing an L-series headgasket in solidworks, just to get the hole pattern and such worked out. Lots of time with calipers and radius gauges... Anyway, the KA cylinder head seems to be a good base to start from, ad we already know that it can be made to flow really well. I'm a N/A guy, so un-assisted flow is a good priority for me, and my main reason for the whole thing. The next problem to correct is coolant flow through the head. I want to try to fix the temp problems on cylinder 5 and 6, because let's face it, that's a problem. Third, a good quench design is a realistic goal. I'd like to be able to use a flat top piston, with at most some valve reliefs cut in. Custom Pistons are not inexpensive, and I think that for *most* of our situations, they are not strictly needed. Also, what can we do about cams? I know 1FastZ has a solution, but as far as i am aware, they are JDM parts and thus, not widely available. I'm open to suggestions as to problems and solutions that we can incorporate into the design here. Now is the time to fix any faults that we can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 fast z Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 YOu guys need to come to reality. No one is going to spend the money that is needed to get castings made, molds made, machining done, etc. If you want a DOHC, go RB. Otherwise, stick to SOHC. 100k for a 5 run order would not be out of line from start to finish. So when 5 people want to shell out 20k a peice for a head, then it will be feasable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xnke Posted April 8, 2008 Author Share Posted April 8, 2008 Really, 1fastz, you are the last one i would have expected that from... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 fast z Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 People are usually big talkers untill their check books need to be opened up. It will not be very profitable for a short run. I guess I just know exactly what needs to be done, as I am a machinest, and have actually built a dohc, and even the amount of work I have done was really extensive, and I did not have to deal with any castings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted April 8, 2008 Share Posted April 8, 2008 Really, 1fastz, you are the last one i would have expected that from... People are usually big talkers untill their check books need to be opened up. That is too true, and I have stressed that from the outset, and attempted to keep anything at least MODEST, even if it is not yet "realistic." In any case, we can still bat the idea about and if someone wants to take steps towards realizing it that don't yet cost money, then no checkbook needs opening.. yet. There DOES seem to be a dearth of real enthusiasm.. but who knows what is going to happen next week, next month, next year? NASA put a man on the moon by outlining the needs of their project, breaking them down into surmountable goals, FULLY DEFINING SUCCESS for each of those goals, setting the appropriate persons to work on them, and persisting until success was met. You followed the same process with your head, I am sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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