essdeezee Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance The phrase I do my best to live by. I have a tentative plan, but before I start JY'ing and stockpiling parts, I'm looking for some input from people who have gone these routes before. I've been reading forums for the past year and a half or so. Working on getting the Z to a reliable DD at the moment (in the flogging to find weak points stage). Mostly, I'm looking to see if I'm missing anything! So please don't be shy, let me have it if I'm misguided. What I've got: I have a '71 240z, all stock at this point. Goals: Eventual goal is to build a streetable screamer. Regular use at autox, spirited mountain driving, and daily use on San Diego streets. Occasional/rare use for the drags. I'm still flexible on the powertrain, but the goal is looking like about 350 HP/TQ to the wheels. I'm looking to make this thing solid. Not necessarily bulletproof, but a touch of overkill never (well, rarely) hurts. I really don't want to be looking in my rearview looking for parts that the Z chewed up and spit out. I prefer to do a project correctly the first time with a minimum of troubleshooting and tinkering, so I read and plan and read and plan and finally DO. So, here's the plan at this point!- Energy Suspension Master Poly Bushing Kit (Black Graphite Impregnated?) Sectioned Struts W/Illuminas GC Coilovers 175/200 Rate F/R Springs Suspension Techniques Swaybar Kit Stock front calipers/solid rotors/Porterfield pads 240SX Rear Disc Conversion (MM) Shortnose R200 (Q45) Infinity Q45 CV's MM R230/R200 Swap Package Ron Tyler Front Diffy Mount Redrilled R200 Mustache Bar 280 Stub axles 240SX 5speed Custom Driveshaft Not really looking for engine suggestions at this point, I have my options pretty well defined, just haven't chosen yet. So, If you've read this far, what do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrumpetRhapsody Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 At first glance... I think you've been doing your research... that's what I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 Shortnose R200 (Q45)Infinity Q45 CV's MM R230/R200 Swap Package Ron Tyler Front Diffy Mount Redrilled R200 Mustache Bar 280 Stub axles Ron Tyler mount doesn't fit the short diff. You'd need the new MM mount, or the TTT mount, or make your own. Why are you going with the shortnose diff? It certainly isn't necessary for your intended power output, and adds a lot of complexity ($$$) to your build. It doesn't save weight, requires the expensive CV upgrade, and won't make you go faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essdeezee Posted April 21, 2008 Author Share Posted April 21, 2008 @jmortensen- I had planned on going with the shortnose because of the greater number and easier availability of LSD options. From what I have read, it seems that by the time you find yourself a good longnose LSD, you've spent almost the same amount as converting. Again, I welcome suggestions and correction! So, would you recommend a longnose with Z31 300ZX CV's as an alternative? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted April 21, 2008 Share Posted April 21, 2008 @jmortensen- I had planned on going with the shortnose because of the greater number and easier availability of LSD options. From what I have read, it seems that by the time you find yourself a good longnose LSD, you've spent almost the same amount as converting. Again, I welcome suggestions and correction! So, would you recommend a longnose with Z31 300ZX CV's as an alternative? The LSD you get in the shortnose is usualy the VLSD, which I'm not a fan of. You can buy an LSD for either diff. The only issue I'm aware of with the Z31T CVs is on extremely lowered cars the CVs seem to be binding. There is some talk about coming up with a shorter CV shaft, and I know Ross at MM has already said he'd have some made up for anyone who needed them. You might want to compare costs between a longnose (factor in buying a brand new LSD and spending the money on the shorter axles as a worst case scenario), and the shortnose with its mandatory parts for installation. I haven't checked but it seems like the shortnose is the expensive way to go, I could be wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 You might want to reconsider your front brake plans. i didn't find the stock size calipers/solid rotors very durable. I smoked the porterfield pads my first time on the track and left 50% of the pads on the track in two hours of run time. Ended up doing the 12.2" Willwood conversion on the front along with the 240SX/300ZX conversion on the rear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nismo280zEd Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 Since you want to use a short diff anyway... you might aswell swap in an s13 or s14 subframe. Then you q45 diff will bolt right up , swap the axles to the q45, then you have rear disc with ebrake, multilink rear suspension, and might be able to use a sold 240 driveshaft since your using the same trans. Atleast that was my logic and the reason i'm swapping in an s14 subframe. -Ed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 The long nose LSD really isn't THAT expensive. The bulk of the cost is in the R/T mount, axles, open diff, and then the carrier. You can get a Power Brute for ~$550 now I think, $400 for an OBX, $600 Cusco on Ebay now, $800 Kaaz, etc. Then you need R200 U-joint or CV axles. In either way I would THINK it would be cheaper to run than an R200/R230 short - for what you get anyway. VLSD vs. new CLSD. Hmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essdeezee Posted April 25, 2008 Author Share Posted April 25, 2008 @nismoed- I see the point, but after reading jmortensen's advice and re-evaluating my power and use goals, I think I'm going to end up with the longnose and Z31T CVs. Thanks also rudypoo. @phantom- at this point, I'm not really planning on heavy open-track lapping quite yet. If I do end up going that direction, I'm sure I'll end up with a setup similar to yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Once Upon A Time, when I still had my 280Z Daily Driver, I, too, had plans of converting to rear disc (solid rotor 280ZX, had all the parts ready to go INCLUDING JY maxima brackets, but my brother threw it all away, @#%$%#) In all the testimony I have read being both an internet geek and a Z-car nut for these last ten years (Z-car my whole life) I have come to the conclusion that you will see MUCH more impact doing SOME sort of front brake upgrade, and simply getting top-notch shoes for the rear drum brakes (ie, "Green Stuff" or something along those lines.) As for the long term maintenance, obviously rear disc is the easy button, and SO much nicer looking behind those wheels, too.. but to leave stock front brakes and to upgrade the rear to discs is not likely (from what I have gathered) to provide too much of an improvement to braking performance. In other words, I used to think the EXACT same thing as you stated regarding brakes; nowadays I think alot harder about getting some toyota calipers and 300ZX rotors before concerning myself with rear discs. Most, if not everyone here probably agrees with me deep down. After all; THEY are the ones who convinced me (without even trying) that I was misled in my initial approach! Now, IF you were to do the entire rear subframe swap as mentioned above, then THAT makes a WORLD of sense, and I kinda like the sound of it... The rest all sounds about right.. I have never heard anyone complain about standard level Energy Suspension components, but if you want to spend a few extra bucks for some graphite I suppose it couldn't hurt. It's amazing, building one of these cars has become almost a formulaic thing, yet EVERY BUILD is still different.. gotta love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rztmartini Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 also, is the 240sx 5 speed absolutely necessary? i mean unless you already have one, use a zx 5 speed or a T5 if you can find one and it will last you at least untill you get more power or want to get the Z32 upgrade... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
83ZXER Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 You might want to reconsider your front brake plans. i didn't find the stock size calipers/solid rotors very durable. I smoked the porterfield pads my first time on the track and left 50% of the pads on the track in two hours of run time. Ended up doing the 12.2" Willwood conversion on the front along with the 240SX/300ZX conversion on the rear. I agree, on hard decceleration the front brakes take the beating unless you have them biased towards the rear (which would cause major oversteer in turns). I would say that you should definately upgrade the fronts if you plan on doing any high speed braking. And i don't remember if you had SS brake lines but they will help big time if you need to do a little foot work with the brake pedal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essdeezee Posted April 28, 2008 Author Share Posted April 28, 2008 @Daeron- My primary reason for going to rear discs was the "easy" button, and the differential in price for rebuild of stock vs 240sx. My rears are in bad shape now, and I'm probably going to end up spending a good chunk of cash just to bring them up to snuff. I do plan on upgrading the fronts eventually, but if I'm going to spend money, why not spend a bit more and go disc. @rztmartini- the reason for the 240sx 5 speed is the difficulty I've had in locating a good zx one locally. SX trannies are all over. @83ZXER- Forgot those in the post. Have them on our '94 Miata and they really helped with brake feel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daeron Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 @Daeron- My primary reason for going to rear discs was the "easy" button, and the differential in price for rebuild of stock vs 240sx. My rears are in bad shape now, and I'm probably going to end up spending a good chunk of cash just to bring them up to snuff. I do plan on upgrading the fronts eventually, but if I'm going to spend money, why not spend a bit more and go disc. Gotcha, and I can't argue with that.. I just wanted to make sure that wasn't a "final plan." At one point, I know that I, personally, used to think that the improved stopping from simply the rear discs would suffice.. but now that I have driven more vehicles in general, and specifically a few Zs with some real brakes, I no longer feel this way. Good luck with the build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essdeezee Posted May 1, 2008 Author Share Posted May 1, 2008 Well, Daeron, the upgrades just got pushed back a bit. It's (non-negotiable) carb rebuild time. Thanks for the advice and good wishes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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