rudypoochris Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 After thinking a bit about all the different calipers there seem to be now adays can someone comment on the pluses and minuses of a couple? It seems that most companies offer a 3.5" spacing like the Wilwood. For instance I was perusing and stumbled across this: It is ~$200 and appears to have more steel bolts going through it than the Wilwood Billet Superlites. Obviously that alone does not make it a better design, was just wondering peoples personal thoughts an opinions on the various after market calipers. -Outlaw -US Brake -AP Racing -Wilwood All come to mind. I think so far I have come to the conclusion that the Wilwood Superlite is economical and has a lot of pad choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 I ran Outlaw 2800 calipers all around on my 240Z and was very happy with them. They are currently on a CP3 VARA 240Z that's winning its class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 StopTech promote their caliper rigidity and from the look of them they could be right. Problem is the calipers are so big wheel fitment becomes a problem. Below is a pic of their big brake kit fitted to the S14 front suspension of project car. Those US Brake ones look like they could be good too. ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1 Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I've been using Superlites for several years, and haven't seen any reason to change. jt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I don't know much about caliper design, but I don't see how any two-piece caliper could be all that rigid. Look at the top of the line anything, they're all monobloc. Bang for your bug, I'd suggest some 2nd hand front Porsche >1996 4-pots. Tis what I hope to be doing soon. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted April 25, 2008 Author Share Posted April 25, 2008 After reading this a while ago: http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/wp_monobloc.shtml I came to the conclusion that 2-piece calipers probably aren't all that bad. Which is why I mentioned the number of steel bolts bridging this F88i US Brake caliper compared to a Superlite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
260DET Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Bugger used Porsche calipers, I've heard that they have a use by date. IMHO like most things Porsche the hype exceeds the performance anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74_5.0L_Z Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Like johnc, I am using Outlaw 2800 calipers on all four corners. I've been quite happy with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayolives Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I've been using Superlites for several years on two different cars. They are a tried and proven, well made part with readily available replacement parts. What else could you want in a brake setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted April 25, 2008 Author Share Posted April 25, 2008 What else could you want in a brake setup? Great question - I don't really know. BUT I do figure with all the different offerings on the standard 3.5" mount one of them has to be 'the best' (I hate using the term 'best'). Just wondering if any particular caliper shines or if any of the particular designs happen to be better at one thing than another. If no one knows this information though, thats a pretty good indication that there probably isn't much big of a difference from a functionality standpoint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 If you're on the Stoptech web site, read their tech article about brake balance. That is orders of magnitude more important to good braking then caliper style (monoblock, two piece, etc.). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 If you're on the Stoptech web site, read their tech article about brake balance. That is orders of magnitude more important to good braking then caliper style (monoblock, two piece, etc.). No matter how good their engineers are, Stoptech cannot claim that their brakes are perfectly balanced without using an adjustable proportioning valve. That's just plain silly. They might be perfectly balanced on one day but not the next. Conditions change. STOPTECH QUOTE: ""Do I need a proportioning valve with a StopTech Big Brake Kit? In a word, no. Because StopTech manufactures calipers with the correct piston diameters for each application, our kits will work with your stock master cylinder and stock pressure limiting valve (often called proportioning valve). There is no need to modify or remove the pressure-limiting valve, and no additional proportioning valve is needed. A StopTech kit will also work with your ABS and traction control systems (improperly designed upgrades can confuse the ABS)"" I suppose with ABS it really matters not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 No matter how good their engineers are, Stoptech cannot claim that their brakes are perfectly balanced without using an adjustable proportioning valve. That's just plain silly. They might be perfectly balanced on one day but not the next. Conditions change. I would agree in at least that not all proportioning valves are going to be exactly the same, so an adjustable one would let you tune it in closer, but above and beyond that I think this is a stretch. Really, how many people are really going to try and get their brakes PERFECTLY balanced for any given situation? It's pretty much impossible to do without ABS, because the performance will change with every possible variable from traction to pad temp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 That's why things like cockpit adjustable balance bars exist. They make it possible to get near perfect brake balance lap after lap, in the dry and in the rain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMortensen Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 That's why things like cockpit adjustable balance bars exist. They make it possible to get near perfect brake balance lap after lap, in the dry and in the rain. I didn't think rudypoochris was building an all out race car. I might be wrong. If it's a street car, I think a balance bar is a bad idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I dont track often but I pretend to on the backroads sometimes. I was surprised to find that I needed almost seven full turns of rear +bias during rainy driving. I thought it would have been the opposite. As it turned out, with the wet road, the front locked up sooner so there was less frontwards weight transfer and the rears could handle much more of the braking work. Things that make me go Hmmmm. I use the AZC Wilwoods all around with the knob style prop valve in the center console. I can't remember if the AZC wilwoods are monoblock or not but they feel very rigid and precise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudypoochris Posted April 25, 2008 Author Share Posted April 25, 2008 Not building an all out race car, and I definitely agree that proportioning is a big deal. At the same time being an ME major just makes me ask those questions that bring up minuscule details that in the big scope don't really matter. Or do they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cygnusx1 Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Not building an all out race car, and I definitely agree that proportioning is a big deal. At the same time being an ME major just makes me ask those questions that bring up minuscule details that in the big scope don't really matter. Or do they? Every detail matters. Some more than others. As an ME you get to look at and understand every one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehelix112 Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Making the best use of the calipers that you have, ie, balance would seem to be the most important thing I agree. But... I just went through the official porsche maintainence booklet http://www.porsche.com/filestore.aspx/default.pdf?pool=usa&type=download&id=maintenanceandwarranty-maintenancebookletpdf&lang=none&filetype=default looking for any mention of brake calipers. I couldn't find any. Regarding stoptech's website, I found this discouraging to say the least: The solution was the two-piece caliper with steel bolts in close fitting holes to stiffen the assembly. The location of the bolts is also critical to the overall stiffness of the unit. ... As a point of academic interest there is no advantage to using an extremely high tensile bolt in this application – again, we are looking for stiffness, not strength. ... Aluminum forgings are significantly stronger than castings but not necessarily stiffer... and then the joke Caliper operating temperatures can and do often exceed 300 degrees F on high performance street vehicles. – at which point the Aluminum bridge of the monobloc has lost more than half of its strength while the steel bolts in a two piece unit are unfazed. I'm not a metallurgist, but that argument seems really flawed to me: stiffness, stiffness, stiffness, stiffness, stiffness, strength? Make up your mind. FWIW, this well known orange 240z (http://www.turbomagazine.com/features/tur0801a01_1972_nissan_datsun_240z/index.html) runs porsche calipers front and rear. Are they a member here who could shed some light on their experiences? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 Stiffness is a material's resistance to flexing, bending. Strength is a material's resistance to failure. Here's a simple way to figure out the difference: http://www.matter.org.uk/Schools/Content/YoungModulus/stiffnessExercise.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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