garvice Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 OK, timing figures. I am running up to 38deg off boost - 100 to 150kpa max 16deg - 150 to 200kpa this drops linearly to 13deg - above 200kpa it is basically 10deg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamH Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 OK, timing figures.I am running up to 38deg off boost - 100 to 150kpa max 16deg - 150 to 200kpa this drops linearly to 13deg - above 200kpa it is basically 10deg That sounds like a very, very conservative timing map. To give you an idea, I am running this: 100kpa - 36deg 120kpa - 32deg 140kpa - 27deg 160kpa - 25deg 180kpa - 23deg 200kpa - 20deg 220kpa - 17deg 250kpa - 15deg Maybe something like that will work better for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garvice Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Mmm, food for thought. The guy that tuned my car was a bit uneasy about taking the timing too far. Might get a timing light on the engine to see where my base is before I go any further. I am assuming it is set at 0 (My idle timing is 10deg in computer), but might check it. One other question guys. I am assuming that when changing the timing, the A/F ratios don't change as your still putting the same amount of air and fuel in and just changing at a different time. So I should be able to up my timing without fiddling with the injector tables. Is this correct? Make that two questions. If I do up the timing and go too far, what are the consequences. Is it limited to blown head gasket or can more serious damage occur? Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmanco Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 One other question guys. I am assuming that when changing the timing, the A/F ratios don't change as your still putting the same amount of air and fuel in and just changing at a different time. So I should be able to up my timing without fiddling with the injector tables. Is this correct?The amount of fuel required WILL change as you change timing. However, some ECUs can adjust automatically via either EGO feedback (not recommended when under boost), or by including the MAP value in the ReqFuel calculation. Megasqurit II/Extra supports this and I use it - very nice to be able to make changes like this and not have to retune the VE tables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradyzq Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 OK, timing figures.I am running up to 38deg off boost - 100 to 150kpa max 16deg - 150 to 200kpa this drops linearly to 13deg - above 200kpa it is basically 10deg Wow. Those are incredibly low numbers. Your EGTs must be through the roof, and your car must fall on its face when you get above 100kpa. I concur with CamH. His timing numbers look much more reasonable, assuming you have decent quality fuel available. You have what looks to be a very potent setup, and if the heading on the dyno graph is right, a topnotch ECU (Motec). The tune, however, is horrible. Your car is so far from detonating that it is not an issue. Run from that tuning shop. With all the abilities of the Mainline dyno (I have a Dynapack) and the Motec ECU, you should have been able to drive out of there with a 90%+ tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wigenOut-S30 Posted November 28, 2009 Author Share Posted November 28, 2009 Just an example here is my timing map per kPa Im currently running. this is on 93 oct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffer949 Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Ya your guys timing tables are very mild. I was running 19 on 23lbs of boost. on 93 octane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmanco Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 What CR are you guys running? I think that has to be part of this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffer949 Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 Im at 7.1:1 gabe is at 8.5:1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garvice Posted November 28, 2009 Share Posted November 28, 2009 CR: I have a P54 block, dished pistons, P90 head and a stock gasket. Using the Ozdat engine builder I think that puts me around 7.353:1. Also run with 98 octane (available everywhere down here). Those are incredibly low numbers. Your EGTs must be through the roof, and your car must fall on its face when you get above 100kpa. Not sure what the temperatures are like, but it sure doesn't feel like it falls flat on it's face. Run from that tuning shop. With all the abilities of the Mainline dyno (I have a Dynapack) and the Motec ECU, you should have been able to drive out of there with a 90%+ tune. I am not running from the tuner though, he is well worth his time/money, he just didn't want to find the limit of my unknown engine on the day before christmas. The amount of fuel required WILL change as you change timing. However, some ECUs can adjust automatically via either EGO feedback (not recommended when under boost), or by including the MAP value in the ReqFuel calculation. Well that sucks, I was hoping I could just up the timing when I was out at the drags next time to see what would happen. I will have to have a chat with the tuner and see if the computer will compensate. I will get out today and find the base timing before I decide to go anywhere from there. Thanks for all your help guys, its nice to be able to consult with people who have similar engine packages (Not a whole lot of us with a turbo L28 down here). Oh yeah, anyone able to tell me the answer to this previous question? If I do up the timing and go too far, what are the consequences. Is it limited to blown head gasket or can more serious damage occur? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CamH Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 If I do up the timing and go too far, what are the consequences. Is it limited to blown head gasket or can more serious damage occur? Head gasket will be the first to go, but other things could break as well. To be safe, just give it a tiny bit more fuel, and up the timing. Do you have a wideband? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garvice Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Ok, update. First off, if anyone thinks this thread is getting clogged up with my garbage, I will move this conversation onto a new thread. I checked my timing today. My block has 0, 10 & 20 deg marks on the block (America's passenger side) and my pulley has three marks (all line up with 0, 10 & 20 at idle) and a notch in the pulley which is further back (in the retarded region). The way I am reading it is that the middle mark is my timing mark and that sits on 10 deg at idle (which is what the computer is programmed at). I am having a hard time finding a photo of a two pulley harmonic balancer that shows the marks and the notch, but I think the notch is unrelated. I do not have a wideband, although the tuner was using one (in exhaust pipe) when tuning the car. I'll give my tuner a call and see about increasing the timing. Thanks for everyones comments/suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradyzq Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 I am not running from the tuner though, he is well worth his time/money, he just didn't want to find the limit of my unknown engine on the day before christmas. My comment about running from that tuner is based also on the facts that you should be able to get those numbers on a STOCK L28ET at those boost levels, as well as the erroneous torque data on the dyno sheet. With 320ft*lbs of torque and your gearing, you should be able to spin the tires all the way through 2nd gear and get a mighty chirp in 3rd. On the street at least. Maybe not on a prepped strip. Those timing (and performance!) numbers are just not something you should end up with after dyno tuning your car. It sounds to me like he is afraid of tuning your car, for whatever reason. Once you get this sorted out, you will absolutely not believe how much faster your car will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 I guess I should post my (currently garaged) setup: Engine: L28E (N42/N42) with turbo head bolts and oil-pump, thermostatically controlled oil-cooler. Turbo: VG30ET T3 turbo (T4 compressor) Intake/Exhaust: Pipercross inline-pod & cold-air intake, 2.5" I/C piping, 450x300x76 Intercooler, standard manifold, rail, Bosch 910 pump, 3/8 lines, 370cc injectors, L28E exhaust manifold, SK's J-pipe, 2.5" SS exhaust (split-dump), single muffler, no cat. Other Drivetrain: 3N71B automatic, 2500rpm stall, Kevlar clutches, 6200rpm shift, 3.90:1 R180 single-spinner. Boost: From memory... available before stall speed, all-in (~10psi) by 3000. ECU: Haltech E6A, custom hall-effect setup, MSD6A. HP: About 145rwkW (also from memory!) as measured on eddy-current dyno in 2nd It pulls like a train with the auto, until it runs out of revs in top... Current works: MM CV adaptors, 300ZXT 1/2-shafts, 3.90:1 R200 LSD, tailshaft loop, 'prepared' F54/P90 engine (forged, ARP etc etc), OEM turbo manifold, ported intake manifold, Ford 4.0L XR6 TB, MoTec M48 ECU, possibly bigger turbo = 400+HP at the engine, and a drivetrain to match. And FWIW, I'm running timing around the 18 mark at full boost, 4500rpm on a crappy chambered N42 dished setup. But that is using 98RON with octane booster... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PR280z Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Question, is the m24garrett / ar 81 the stock turbo combo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PR280z Posted December 9, 2009 Share Posted December 9, 2009 Question, is the m24garrett / ar 81 the stock turbo combo? I got the flashlight out and check the stamping on the turbo. It reads AR/.60, AR/.81, Has anyone run there Z with that combination ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macambra Posted December 13, 2009 Share Posted December 13, 2009 I think it would be benificial to have a thread of everyone who has a L28 turbo list what you have and your mods as well as when you get positive boost and how well you like it. example:: -engine= L28ET JE pistons 8:0.1 compression -turbo= t3/to4E 60trim compressorwheel, .63 turbine housing stage 3 wheel. -Exhaust system - How much boost you run and when it goes pos pressure to peek boost. -ECU= MSNS1 v3 -440 CC injectors -HP= if you have dyno tuned it and what type of dyno..(this will not be exact as no 1 dyno is the same) What im trying to accomplish is a nice and easy thread to search and have information on different turbo setups people are using on the L28 motor. Please let me know if this thread has been started before as I dont want to duplicate one.. Thanks Engine: L28E Block:N42 Stock dished pistons Head: N42 Stock 83 ZXT car and parts 2K Ohm thermistor in place of Cyl head temp Greddy type S BOV replacing emergency relief valve cheap ebay manual boost controller EGR unplugged Vapor canister deleted AAV unplugged Everything else is stock It runs out well,tire squealing fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimZ Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 I didn't hear anything indicating a backfire/missfire or pinging. Car was idling/driving nicely. I only popped the bonnet to help it cool down. The front of the head had been seeping oil for a while, so I wasn't too surprised. Um... before you pull the head, you did notice that the dipstick is missing, right? edit: never mind - I now see it laying on the relay box in the first pic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 lol, I thought that you'd blown the dipstick out too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundmasterg Posted January 9, 2010 Share Posted January 9, 2010 How many of you guys with the high horsepower turbo setups are running methanol injection too? Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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