auxilary Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 So every day, I will post a short snippet of a story, since these idiocies happen every day, and he's obviously not getting fired of shown stupidity. Check this thread daily for new stories Yesterday's idiocy: I get called into his office to figure out why a game is laggy for players. I look over the new network, and there's no diagram me: do you want me to draw up a visio diagram of the new network and system? Douche Bag Manager (DBM): why? me: uhm, so we have a full layout, easy to read, and we have documentation? DBM: uhm, I don't see why we need it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Heehee. However I know less them him on this subject, but I do understand the overall conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S30TRBO Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 you: Because trying to determine where the bottle neck may or may not be might help ass... ... wait you have a game server at work?....nice..... I just segmented another network and now we are wanting the same.... I think my boss is all for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxilary Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 no, i work for a company that publishes online gaming... so yeah, lots of game servers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S30TRBO Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 no, i work for a company that publishes online gaming... so yeah, lots of game servers or that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naviathan Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 Hmm, not that I would know anything about this (Net+ Certified technician with over 9 years experience in networking and systems support), but I thought at the minimum a network cut sheet is a must when laying out a network. If I have to troubleshoot a units (USMC) network the first thing I ask for is a cut sheet or diagram. If they can't produce that I tell them to let me know when they get one done. I refuse to try to rework stupidity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-Z Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 So you work IT. I learned a while ago that dealing with other's stupidity and my quality of time being frustrated isn't worth the money. Network IT isn't so bad. You only have to deal with it when initially setting up the network, something is down, or upscaling and upgrading. And one of my pet peeves is when someone answers a question with another question, or a statement thats said like a question. You have no idea how much that happens in IT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikelly Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 For every "idiot manager" you have, I can site DOOZY employees, both current and past, who put me thru the same paces! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 For every "idiot manager" you have, I can site DOOZY employees, both current and past, who put me thru the same paces! Mike ....as well as colleagues who are your purported "peers". My favorite of the day is from my boss. He is the director of engineering for my region. This is important. I am on a conference call today to discuss the viability of a process. I inquire as to the flowrate of the system. I am looking for a SCFM number or standard cubic feet per minute. The designer of the system replies 3.25 million standard cubic feet per DAY. I confirm the numbers verbally that it is per day and state that I'll just divide by the number of minutes in a day (1440) to get the flow number I need for comparison (per minute). My boss, an engineer with twice my experience, states over the phone for all to hear, "I think that there is another conversion factor in there." Best keep quiet and look the fool than open your mouth and confirm it...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwi303 Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 And one of my pet peeves is when someone answers a question with another question, or a statement thats said like a question. You have no idea how much that happens in IT You ain't had much dealings with sales have you? that's the base method of communication in sales, making someone answer a question makes them think about the answer... tell them something and it's in one ear and falls out the other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 The designer of the system replies 3.25 million standard cubic feet per DAY. I confirm the numbers verbally that it is per day and state that I'll just divide by the number of minutes in a day (1440) to get the flow number I need for comparison (per minute). My boss, an engineer with twice my experience, states over the phone for all to hear, "I think that there is another conversion factor in there." But don't you know? You have to show your work! First you have to convert to CF/Hr by dividing by 24... Second, you convert to CF/M by dividing that by 60... The fact that 24X60=1440 and makes for a direct conversion is just 'too far outside the box'... Perhaps you should stay within the lines, Bo. The lines are your friends. Stay within the lines... Of course, he may have had a marketing course in his past, and therefore 'Just guess, and we'll make it up on ASI Revisions during commissioning'... (ASI= Additional Scope Items) I am done spending a week chasing 83 Pounds Per Hour of 'Capacity Shortfall' here in Bonny Island. I found it. A blind flange up in the pipe rack for the 'weak machine' that was not 'blind'... "Hey, what is this '125' on the blind mean?' "Oh, that is a 125mm Orifice Plate." Then why is it shown on the P.I.D. as a blind? "Oh, that's wrong, it should be a blind." Think the pressure differential between this system and that system might bleed over that missing 83 PPH? Think it might explain why you're getting all that 'wet air' downstream as well, even though the dryers are showing -58 Dewpoints? Not bad work considering I was here to supervise removal of two redundant, superflous, useless, troubleprone solenoids in their inlet guide vane control scheme (that they insisted be there)... "While you're here (and since we control flights in and out, and we have you hostage...) can you help us find the issue on your compressor why it's not delivering capacity and won't pass it's acceptance test?" Sure, what other option do I have... Not like I can get my own boat and leave. The pirates out there got AK's and like to shoot up 'long pig'! (Or so I hear!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-Z Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 You ain't had much dealings with sales have you? that's the base method of communication in sales, making someone answer a question makes them think about the answer... tell them something and it's in one ear and falls out the other That is why I hate sales people. If I want to buy something, then I buy it. If its a big purchase, I research. I don't need someone wasting my time, just so that person can get a sale. If I really do need a question answered about something, I ask a real technical question, either they begin to lie to my face and i walk away before they finish, or give me a proper answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxilary Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 For every "idiot manager" you have, I can site DOOZY employees, both current and past, who put me thru the same paces! Mike Mike, there's a big difference here. This guy has shown blatant incompetence to almost everyone in the company, openly lies, poor communication, annoying. I've never worked with someone I despised so much. I get along with every single person here, except him. Another story from yesterday: DBM sends me a list of my quarterly goal reviews, and says "here's the list of items we discussed in the meeting, please sign it showing that we went over this" I look at the list, and 80% of the items on it have not been discussed, or even mentioned to me. So I tell him no, because most of these things were discussed or even brought up. He tells me otherwise. We get into an argument over him lying. again. Basically, Mike, let me put it this way: everything i told him over the course of last 3 months (his duration here), he countered and objected. Now the security consultant is telling him the exact same thing, and he's eating it up like cookie dough and talking about changes. And yes, I have provided it all in writing, to multiple parties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calgary280ZT Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 That is why I hate sales people. If I want to buy something, then I buy it. If its a big purchase, I research. I don't need someone wasting my time, just so that person can get a sale. If I really do need a question answered about something, I ask a real technical question, either they begin to lie to my face and i walk away before they finish, or give me a proper answer. Well, sir, you are the mythical customer, like Moby Dick or the unicorn. You apparently know everything about everything or think you can Google it. You're not an engineer by any chance? (with the appropriate apologies to ktm) I work in technical sales in the oil patch and talk to engineers all day, every day. The reason sales people ask questions so much, and sometimes answer questions with a question, is the need to draw out information from the customer so that we can respond with the proper information. My customers rely on me to be accurate and provide the correct recommendation. To do that, I need THEM to talk, not me. Once I have what I need, then it's time to respond. Good customers understand the need for good technical sales people. It's a symbiotic relationship and both parties benefit. Try having a symbiotic relationship with Google someday and see where that gets ya...LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuperair Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 no, i work for a company that publishes online gaming... so yeah, lots of game servers Dude, is it Steam??? Cuz they've been pissing me off lately with the latest updates and protocols....Lagging like cra-z Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 "Technical Sales" as you put it Markham is as much education of a customer to what their real needs are, as opposed to selling something to move iron and make your sales quota for the month/quarter/etc... Sadly, with the emphasis on 'growth' driving most sectors and large companies, the focus is usually more on numbers than actually selling the people something they need. Generally, the attitude is 'Move the Iron, once it's on the site, it's theirs and the service department can sort it out. This has been the universal attitude in many of the companies I have dealt with...most times either through inadequate questioning of a customer's needs (takes too much time, gotta move that iron) or at worst some incompetent/arrogant/WAG at what they need just to move something...and the customer gets someting misapplied. "Application Engineer" is the term for many new grads put into sales positions. The newest company I'm with links an experienced Service Engineer to each of the new Application Engineers. Someone from Technical Services has a say on the front end of the design process when the unit is being specified, instead of just a bunch of guys who have never been in the field, and only have a 'sales' background. This unique linkup gives them someone who will tell them the mistakes of the past, and tell them what to look out for when reading specs, querying the customer, etc. In many cases, the Service Engineer may go to the site and do a survey to make sure the Application is correct. There are legions of 'salesmen' out there pounding on doors and trying to sell people compressors. And they will do some amazingly stupid things and make promises that can never possibly be kept to do the deal and get the iron in place. And these are the guys who usually make it and stick around to supervise the new Ap Engineers when they start with the company. Sadly, at the last three places I worked, fresh new engineers were thrown into the fray under the direct supervision of another Application Engineer (who has never set foot in the field) and they compound the same mistakes over and over and over. This last place made the change when they split off from the 'old company' and it was driven by the CEO and Sales Director knowing exactly this situation exists and couldn't wait to change it. At "Big Blue" I actually had coordinators who had never seen a compressor before they got the job ("He comes to us from G.E.-angels sing-where he worked as a stockroom assistant in charge of logistics and load planning of strategic widget support parts.") and then start fielding customer calls for technical service inquiries and service calls! Some of the stuff they promised through sheer ignorance just made me shake my head. But, hey, they booked service hours, and that was their job. And it doesn't matter that a 20 minute phone call would have solved it, we billed a day labor. Course, the customer is a bit upset by our ovaricious activities...'Good Service Sells Itself'. Hey, I LOVE when the new kids come ask questions...anything I can stop before it goes out the door is less issues I have to deal with during commissioning/startup/the next 20 years in service! Your style of sales, while 'ideal' is far from what is practiced in many larger firms, Markham. Too often it's 'move the iron and let service sort it out after we get the numbers booked'... I'd say that is the more dominant paradigm. And that pretty much sums up, for the Air Compressor Industry at least, why salesmen are uinversally despised. They simply lie too damn much. They are no different than many stereotypical used-car-salesmen. Now, the funny thing was, when I was in those shoes...I took a different approach. I arrived in a truck, with a tool kit. I wore proper attire for the area (not a suit and loafers), and went in the back door like some mechanic arriving for a service call. I worked with maintenance engineers setting up service plans and PM Programs...and universally I would get a comment 'Oh, you're not a salesman, you actually know what you're talking about!' I mean, that's a direct quote. It's really that bad in many industries. "I can sell ice cubes to eskimoes" Attitued. Hubris and B.S. will snow the customer long enough to make the sale...then it's the service departments problem!" And I think that is what some of these guys are getting at about 'salesmen'... Asking specific technical questions as a sales rep is one thing...but really, if an Engineer is worth his salt, most of the information is out there in specs on the equipment and you can base a decision on that. What the rep comes in to do is make sure they interpreted the information correctly, and look for things they may have overlooked. Selling patch equipment is a bit different than buying a car, refrigerator, or T.V. set. Some principles are similar, but the application is far from universal and takes specific knowledge to apply correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 This is why I will ask to talk to one of the engineers on a specific product. If I can understand how something works, it is easier to make a judgment call. One thing I've noticed, the engineers typically just tell you how it is, even points of a competitor that may be better. Even in any store, if I get some one telling me to go somewhere else for any given product cause it's better for my application, I typically become very loyal to that particular store! (the one with the advice) With that being said, I'm now personally struggling with people that don't understand my industry. You meet with someone and if you don't look the part, what you say dose not seem to mean squat!! Ohhhh I wish for the days of fellows started from the ground up, not someone that walked into a decision making position right out of collage. NOT ALL ARE THAT WAY, JUST TOOO MANY!! As for Aux, Heads of companies that manage well should always pay close attention to all levels of his company. If someone new is brought in and quality, loyal employees start complaining, new guy will be checked out carefully and in private. As for cruddy employees complaining, maybe they will quite and I can bring in quality ones to help the good employees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnc Posted October 31, 2008 Share Posted October 31, 2008 I work in technical sales in the oil patch and talk to engineers all day, every day. The reason sales people ask questions so much, and sometimes answer questions with a question, is the need to draw out information from the customer so that we can respond with the proper information. My customers rely on me to be accurate and provide the correct recommendation. To do that, I need THEM to talk, not me. Once I have what I need, then it's time to respond. Good customers understand the need for good technical sales people. It's a symbiotic relationship and both parties benefit. Try having a symbiotic relationship with Google someday and see where that gets ya...LOL Exactly. Having had to work the technical sales side (I was brought in when the customer's technical staff started playing "stump the chump") I agree whole heartedly. I've canceled deals when the customer appeared too ignorant and I knew things would go horribly wrong once our product was installed (once by asking their database administrator if he did his database design that way on purpose). That earned me the undying hatred of the sales person and the VP of sales, but I had the final word. It balanced out because I saved their butts many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auxilary Posted October 31, 2008 Author Share Posted October 31, 2008 Last night I put in place a lot of firewall rules that were certainly made to break stuff, and waited for people to complain to see who needs what (not because I'm an ass, but because of the situation, so, shoot first, ask questions later, something my manager doesn't comprehend). So, I leave work, I get a call from him. DBM: "so and so can't access this server, software is locking up. can you fix it?" me: yes, when i come into the office tomorrow. for the time being, have that person use VPN to connect in, and they'll be able to do everything needed. DBM: why? me: because it's a work around, and I will fix this tomorrow DBM: but why does she have to VPN in? She's in the building me: it's a work around, a temp fix so the person can function! [repeat this 3x more] me: ok, listen very carefully. just......... have......... her....... vpn.......... in....... that's it [3 sec pauses between every word] and then I just hung up and called that person directly, who doesn't have language problems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted November 1, 2008 Share Posted November 1, 2008 I've canceled deals when the customer appeared too ignorant and I knew things would go horribly wrong once our product was installed... "There are some customers you don't want!" The 'salesmen' that I refer to usually don't make that distinction. My former "Bunghole Boss" was one of them. (did you do it that way on purpose? LOL, JC, I've actually used that line in a 'friendly' way to try and get an honest answer...usually, if it's to that point...the answer is 'yes' and you can sit back and be entertained with the story of the logic they used to come up with whatever it was they did! LOL) "She does not have a language problem" LOL, I'm going to have to remember that one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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