2jz vs rb26

[neotech84]

Makes me wan to live in Oz........ A 300$ RB30 would be NICE!

[Comrade_Charlie]

jzzz

[Orphan]

Makes me wan to live in Oz........ A 300$ RB30 would be NICE!

 

You can get them cheaper then that and they are very common being in the R31 skyline as well as a local manufacturer Holden's sedan of the day and later being offered in the Patrol, my step brother still has his old R31 sitting out back of his place, could probably get the engine for free as he is never going to finish it haha. The main issue with them is getting the right block, there seem to be 2 different types from my reading one which has oil in/out for the turbo and the other that doesn't so obviously the first is the one you want.

 

Its only being in Australia or NZ that makes the RB26/30 a competative price option to the 2J as you can get the 3L bottom end for sub $300 + $1200ish for a 26 head and from there its rods pistons rings bolts crank collar pumps etc etc but really nothing more than you would be doing to build a regular RB26 but instead of forking out 4.5k+ just for the engine you have a build engine for that price or less.

[Sketch_hs]

Well.....How set are you on a 2JZ or RB2x? Because if all you want is a straight six, I think Mag58 can tell you about an engine that can either scream to 10k or be a torque monster, made almost 500whp on not that much boost with a bad tune (on a stock block), and can be had for not all that much $$...

 

 

???

[PanzerAce]

???

Guess you haven't been following his threads. Mercedes Benz M104 engines. Anywhere from 2.8 to 3.6 liters. The 2.8's have a fairly small stroke, while the 3.6s use diesel cranks that are far more impressive than those found on Z cars.

 

I suspect that there are going to be one or two build threads for M104 powered Zs in the not too distant future...

[Orphan]

Guess you haven't been following his threads. Mercedes Benz M104 engines. Anywhere from 2.8 to 3.6 liters. The 2.8's have a fairly small stroke, while the 3.6s use diesel cranks that are far more impressive than those found on Z cars.

 

I suspect that there are going to be one or two build threads for M104 powered Zs in the not too distant future...

 

I havent seen to much about the M104 but honestly the 2JZ and RB series are just as capable the main difference imo is the capacity of the M104, bigger capacity = more able bottom end torque and seeing as the Z is light enough I dont think this matters to most people. It is most definately interesting to see other engines and learn about them - just saying the 2J and RB are still more than able to rev to 9-10k or be tuned for low end torque. Cams tuning and turbo choice all affect power and torque delivery but most people seem to go for a nice smooth power and toque band right up to redline.

 

Most of the RB26 30s down here using a GT3540 are making 700nm+ at around 320rwkw or about 430rwhp with peak torque relatively low and most of the graphs I have seen show over 450nm @ 3000rpm with most hitting peak torque between 4750 and 5500ish.

 

Here is an example, I can pull up at least another 15 charts from different cars if people are interested or just check out the RB30 hybrid resuts thread on skylinesaustralia.com.

 

Now i'm not hugely trusting of many dynos etc but every single dyno has shown 800nm+ out of these things so they can be pretty potent not to mention break pretty much everything behind the engine haha.

 

[MAG58]

I suspect that there are going to be one or two build threads for M104 powered Zs in the not too distant future...

 

I'm lazy don't judge me.

 

And not to kill the topic at hand, the point of using an M104 is that I'm slightly tired of people throwing dyno graphs out of RB's and JZ's and telling me that anyone who uses something else in a Z is and idiot (not saying you are at all). No I don't expect to make astronomical numbers. No I don't think they're bad engines, or that Mercedes or BMW builds a better or worse engine (TVR Does ). I do think they're overrated and people get the impression that you can just take parts out of a box throw them on a motor with a snail the size of the late Pluto (moment of silence little buddy...) and have some kind of reliable ballistic missile that puts down numbers that can enlarge the size of any pair of internet man-bits and don't really believe they (or any motor) should be called the "god" of engines (once again, not stated in this thread, yet)...

 

As a college student, I have the opportunity to be broke as hell and get inventive. The goal of my choice?

 

Get 400+whp

Have a 2500-7 or 8k power band, not ____/

Do it on 93 octane.

Do it for less than the cost of putting a bare-bones stock RB or JZ (gte) in.

 

 

To the topic at hand... I like both motors. The JZ can make tons of power that can make me just as dead as any other motor making the same amount of power but I do have the ability to say I have a JZ in my car.

The RB I like. A bunch. Unfortunately no exciting flavors of RB made their way into the states or I'd be all over an RB26/30 hybrid in a heartbeat. The problem I have is that everyone wants one and RB30 bottom ends aren't plentiful here in the colonies which means that both are out of my petite little budget.

 

I'm quite a fan of all I6's. Do I think there is a best? Nope (it's even in the HBZ rules, what a fantastic site). Do I think there's more than two equally capable motors in the world? Yep. Will the OP be happy with ANY DOHC I6 he chooses? Pretty sure.

 

/rant.

[Orphan]

Mag58, my post wasnt to say just do an RB or JZ as much to just show that they are a well know and able engine.

 

I really like to see people using other engines and what I would really like to see is someone put a 13B REW into a S30, that would be a crazy little car.

 

RBs are definately a lot more attractive over here I must say but the prices can still be pretty crazy, who knows you might find the Merc engine to be better value for money overall or possibly a better engine with internals. One thing that would be interesting to know is the weight of the M104 series, the biggest down fall to me of the JZ and RBs are very heavy engines for the capacity.

[PanzerAce]

Mag's last point about his choice selection is what made it for me as well: cost. M104s are god awfully cheap compared to any other I6 option that I know of short of an L series. Displacement helps the choice, but in the end, the cost is what makes it *my* personal choice. Obviously, places where RB engines are more available, That's going to skew things in their favor, to the point that if I was on the other side of the world, I'd probably go RB, simply because people know it far better.

 

That being said, M104s might be even cheaper for you guys than they are for us. There's some Korean company that's still building them under license that sells a bunch of models (and has for around a decade) in australia.

 

But enough derailing the thread. b/w the 2JZ and the RB26,I would go with the 2JZ, for the reasons I posted on the first page.

[johnc]

Guys, if you turn this thread into a pissing contest between engine types I'll flat out delete it. Stop arguing about which engine is "best." The JZ, RB,and M engines are all good engines, stop this BS internet engineering masturbation!

 

4. There is no Best! No best tires. No best engine. No best shock. No best big chrome foot gas pedal. Every car builder and driver is in a different situation. What's good for one might suck for another. The decision on what is "best" for you and your car is completely up to you. As with any decision time, effort, and research is needed by the decision maker - you! Instead of asking what is "best", do some research, explain your situation in excruciating detail, and describe what alternatives you're considering in your decision. Posting a thread with "What's the best..." in the title it is a sure way to get that post tossed into the Tool Shed.

[JustinOlson]

I'd do a 2JZGE. They are capable of as much power as a 2JZGTE, yet I can find good long blocks all day long for $500 up here.

 

Guy over on supraforums just posted a 870whp on a stock block 2JZGE.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/roadracer4life

 

/J

[MAG58]

I'd do a 2JZGE. They are capable of as much power as a 2JZGTE, yet I can find good long blocks all day long for $500 up here.

 

Guy over on supraforums just posted a 870whp on a stock block 2JZGE.

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/roadracer4life

 

/J

 

I'll agree though even though it's got stock crank/rods/pistons, there's been quite a bit of work done to that motor.

 

If you're in the US, and you want a japanese I6, 'yota is the way to go.

 

 

Perhaps though he's not looking for astronomical horsepower, just a decent bit of scoot. I know that if I just went straight from the hundred and a bit hp of my L28 to 800+ in a fire breathing RB/JZ I'd end up dead. Let's stay realistic.

[JustinOlson]

The only trouble with the 2JZ's is the tranmission. You can't find a cheap 6speed. The R154's are fairly stout, but rare and need internal work to hold big power. GM auto swaps are common and hold the power. They aren't super cheap either tho.

[MAG58]

This tends to be the issue with nabbing the RB25 5 speed for RB's as well. Getting them over here could be a pricey issue depending...

[Orphan]

Is there an M104 tech website or something I can do a bit of reading.

 

In regards to John I don't think this has been turned into what is the best engine as its more discussing bang for buck out of different engines but obviously varies country to country.

 

MAG in regards to the RB25 box they are quite expensive here as well, easy enough to get a hold of but your still looking at $1500-2000 kind of money and considering you can easily get a T56 (double overdrive) for a few hundred used and will hold similar power not to mention being a six speed and having a far better top end gear ratio for highway cruising. I hate the fiddling around with making custom bell housings though as most nissan boxes have the bellhousing and trans casing in one so its pretty hard to get one to drill for another trans.

[PanzerAce]

Orphan, no M104 tech site AFAIK. If you want (and Mag is ok with it) I can copy + paste all of our M104 related PMs into a .txt for you. Lots of info, but it'll be difficult to read because of the conversational nature of it.

 

That being said, if you (or mag, for that matter), have any super specific questions, I can take them to my MB tech buddy when I go over to his place tomorrow.

[MAG58]

To be honest, I'm not going to even say the M is in the same league as the RB or JZ yet because nobody has really pushed it, as far as I know. The majority of technical information I've amassed has come from digging for hours to find old FSM's, translating German technical papers, or me sitting down with some micrometers and figuring out what's what. I do know that they're lighter (from all the measuring I've done with different parts, it should ring in within 20lbs of the L series) than both the Japanese offerings that have become popular and in the states finding one is a far cheaper project than going the JZ/RB route thus far from all my pricing. The only problem I've found is that these motors weren't exactly known for dying easily so actually finding one that I can grab may be more difficult since most are still towing around fat yuppies in giant boat sedans with 200k+ on the clock, still ticking like the day they left the factory.

 

To be honest at this point, I'd almost prefer that someone not go M103/4 as the RB and JZ both have WELL developed performace backgrounds with many companies with sizable budgets producing many fantastic parts for them. For me this is more of a passion and a curiosity as all of the turbo mercedes I've seen in the twin cam flavors have been more torque than horsepower (not that that's a bad thing, with 500hp and still more torque on an unopened motor damper to flywheel) and given the undersquare nature of the things, there's far more potential to be had. I doubt it'll ever, ever have the following or aftermarket support of the Japanese giants, but for me it's fun, and that's what it's all about, right?

[pip]

The only trouble with the 2JZ's is the tranmission. You can't find a cheap 6speed. The R154's are fairly stout, but rare and need internal work to hold big power. GM auto swaps are common and hold the power. They aren't super cheap either tho.

 

 

 

how much are you thinking a GM auto swap is?? i know you can BUILD a nice TH400 for cheap (US$700-1000) or find a good cheaper one for $500

[Gritz]

A lot of false info in this thread..both these motors are awesome...If you plan to make 500+ hp you got your work cut out for you..is your car set up for this kind of power? Saftey first! Remember 300whp in a s30 is wicked fast, im talking low 12's high 11's..

[piston]

Man...a r154 is plenty for 500-550hp. Going gm auto is just overkill for a 400-500hp daily driver. plenty of false info like grit mentioned. This thread reminds me of when I first started and got all happy and had big hp dreams which soon became useless on the street in a s30 chassis. Everyone will tell you different things about their favorite engine and why you should swap their favorite engine into your car. Seriously, search and read not just on hybrid and make decisions for yourself. There's no better motor over another motor here on hybridz. If you ask me, I will tell you the 2jz is the best motor and parts everywhere in the states. But that's just me.