Chaparral2f Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 So I'm finally making some progress on the z31, and a while back I bought a steering column out of a Cobalt. I want to run electric power steering and this seemed at the time the easiest way to do it. Anyway, I have been looking for a wiring diagram for it . I spent days on the net, joined two cobalt forums, visited the library countless times, and started searching every parts store in the area. Finally today I came across a Chilton manual at Shucks. Whoopy, I thought, at last success. After plunking down twenty five of my hard earned dollars, I grabbed the book and went home to read it. I checked the wiring diagrams at the back of the book, and discovered that they mainly cover things like installing a stereo. So next comes the index. I find the power steering section, and when I get to the page it says, that the electric power steering is a complicated system, and "if it has any problems, take it to your local dealer." I used to think that some of the people who work in parts houses were idiots, because they couldn't figure out what a small block Chevy engine was, but now I have found out that the real morons are the supposed experts whose idea or repair is to take it to the dealer. I could have gotten the same advice from my ten year old great grand daughter, and it wouldn't have cost anywhere near twenty five dollars. I don't mind spending the money, but if the manual doesn't have information that is useful I think its a ripoff. Now that I feel better, I'm going to write to Chilton and tell them what a bunch of a holes I think they are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted December 22, 2009 Administrators Share Posted December 22, 2009 I've never found much usefulness in Chiltons for any make or vintage of car. I gave up on them almost two decades ago. I suspect a real FSM would provide the information you're after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19762802+2 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I've never found much usefulness in Chiltons for any make or vintage of car. I gave up on them almost two decades ago. I suspect a real FSM would provide the information you're after. I know what you mean I bought one for my Datsun and pretty much useless and not many pictures of what you want either. I should have just saved up and bought a Haynes online. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinCA Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 haynes... chilton.. none of them worth the paper they are printed on. Full service manuals from the factory are the only way to go.. if you look around online you can find them in pdf form for free sometimes. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted December 22, 2009 Administrators Share Posted December 22, 2009 haynes... chilton.. none of them worth the paper they are printed on. Full service manuals from the factory are the only way to go.. if you look around online you can find them in pdf form for free sometimes. Haynes manual for the S30 isn't bad at all. The FSM for a 240z is nothing special, a few extra nuggets, but nothing to shout about. As cars have gotten more complicated, the FSM competitors have fallen back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skib Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I use a Chiltons and the downloaded FSM from xenonzcar.com anything thats not in there I either search hybrid or bother BRAAP and RTz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinCA Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Haynes manual for the S30 isn't bad at all. The FSM for a 240z is nothing special, a few extra nuggets, but nothing to shout about. As cars have gotten more complicated, the FSM competitors have fallen back. To be fair, after experiencing a few haynes and chiltons manuals, I simply wrote them all off. Especially after getting a few full service manuals in my hands. So I guess I really can't attest to the quality of the haynes for the s30. I just like having the specs and diagrams from the factory whenever possible. It makes my life that much easier. Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 IMHO the Haynes manual is better than nothing - but having said that, it's geared to the USDM-spec cars, so there's heaps of crap in it that doesn't apply to Aus-spec Zeds! Still, it got my confidence up enough when I first got my 240Z, and I guess I might refer to it on the odd occasion... Gregorys manuals on the other hand, are next to effing useless... Try doing anything on an RB using one of those manuals, and you'll soon find holes big enough to sail the Titanic through. I can sympathise with your plight... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Today, if something goes wrong, you don't even lift the hood. You call road service on your cellphone. People don't even change flat tires, let alone oil. And to think a few decades back, people actually decoked valves! We've definitely lost something. - JAY LENO , Popular Mechanics April 2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naviathan Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 You should ask someone in the service center if they can print out the necessary information for you from Alldata. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue72 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Occasionally they are handy, but most of the time the vehicle in question is covered better in another resource. I too was recently thinking of buying a Haynes manual. It's the one for the Apollo Lunar Module. After reading reviews on their "manual", turns out it doesn't actually contain any technical diagnoses instructions, troubleshooting charts or service procedures. Now how am I going to land this thing on the lunar surface? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted December 23, 2009 Administrators Share Posted December 23, 2009 (edited) 1978 280Z FSM, versus four volumes of 1998 GM truck FSM. Things have changed, minutely... Edited December 23, 2009 by RTz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAG58 Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I can stack the FSM's I have for the Z (I've got one for an S130 and S30), the Mini's, and the 720 together and they don't equal one of the two for either my mom's new beetle or my brother's Explorer. My attention span is not long enough to work on a car with a manual that could show up an unabridged dictionary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron D Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 Let me know how that electric power steering mod turns out, that's a cool adaptation. That could prove very handy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted June 20, 2010 Share Posted June 20, 2010 So next comes the index. I find the power steering section, and when I get to the page it says, that the electric power steering is a complicated system, and "if it has any problems, take it to your local dealer."...I don't mind spending the money, but if the manual doesn't have information that is useful I think its a ripoff.Now that I feel better, I'm going to write to Chilton and tell them what a bunch of a holes I think they are So let me get this straight... You 'don't mind spending the money' so you go to an aftermarket pirate outfit to get information on complex vehicle safety systems and pay $25 for it, instead of going to the book the dealers use (who have to assume the liability for their repairs because they are a manufacturer's representative) and which costs $400+ in some cases. And then complain that it doesn't contain the same information? Have you ever heard of the concept of 'You get what you pay for?' I mean really---do you think from Chilton's standpoint they want to assume the liability for translating a manufacturer's service text written for specialists and professionals into dumbed-down speak for home hobby people who need instruction on how to change brake pads and check the oil? No doubt the Chiltons manuals suck. Haynes is slightly better, but neither is a substitute for a proper Factory Service Manual on the vehicle you are working. The GM Manuals for a 94 Camaro is something like 3 Volumes that are close to 2 1/2 to 3" thick. The section on fuel injection covers things in such minute detail and is written at a low reading level even the most basic guy could understand the complexities of short and long-term fuel trim. NONE of this is covered in detail in ANY of the aftermarket manuals. Why? the vast majority of the people wanting those manuals aren't looking for that kind of depth of detail. They are changing brake pads, and oil, and maybe replacing a bulb or transmission as an assembly. Not breaking the individual components down further than that... You should have known better. You should have never expected such liability-risky information to be enclosed in a current edition manual in the USA. Maybe in the 60's those manuals covered everything because it was basic mechanical information you needed to be competent with to affect repairs. Now, the liability is FAR to great for a publisher of an aftermarket manual to give directions on complex safety systems and etc. What was in there about the ABS system? See a pattern? For shame trying to spend $25 and get the knowledge you know will not be there! You get what you pay for, and I would never expect a $25 3/4" thick paperback to compare to the FSM in any way, shape or form... The Manual for my wife's Y2K Frontier was $297 either in dead-tree or CD Rom. For that money, I'd almost demand dead trees... but CD was easier to carry in the car. You want detailed information, you go to the source, not Grandpa Jones and his local printing press... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaparral2f Posted June 21, 2010 Author Share Posted June 21, 2010 So let me get this straight... You 'don't mind spending the money' so you go to an aftermarket pirate outfit to get information on complex vehicle safety systems and pay $25 for it, instead of going to the book the dealers use (who have to assume the liability for their repairs because they are a manufacturer's representative) and which costs $400+ in some cases. And then complain that it doesn't contain the same information? Have you ever heard of the concept of 'You get what you pay for?' I mean really---do you think from Chilton's standpoint they want to assume the liability for translating a manufacturer's service text written for specialists and professionals into dumbed-down speak for home hobby people who need instruction on how to change brake pads and check the oil? No doubt the Chiltons manuals suck. Haynes is slightly better, but neither is a substitute for a proper Factory Service Manual on the vehicle you are working. The GM Manuals for a 94 Camaro is something like 3 Volumes that are close to 2 1/2 to 3" thick. The section on fuel injection covers things in such minute detail and is written at a low reading level even the most basic guy could understand the complexities of short and long-term fuel trim. NONE of this is covered in detail in ANY of the aftermarket manuals. Why? the vast majority of the people wanting those manuals aren't looking for that kind of depth of detail. They are changing brake pads, and oil, and maybe replacing a bulb or transmission as an assembly. Not breaking the individual components down further than that... You should have known better. You should have never expected such liability-risky information to be enclosed in a current edition manual in the USA. Maybe in the 60's those manuals covered everything because it was basic mechanical information you needed to be competent with to affect repairs. Now, the liability is FAR to great for a publisher of an aftermarket manual to give directions on complex safety systems and etc. What was in there about the ABS system? See a pattern? For shame trying to spend $25 and get the knowledge you know will not be there! You get what you pay for, and I would never expect a $25 3/4" thick paperback to compare to the FSM in any way, shape or form... The Manual for my wife's Y2K Frontier was $297 either in dead-tree or CD Rom. For that money, I'd almost demand dead trees... but CD was easier to carry in the car. You want detailed information, you go to the source, not Grandpa Jones and his local printing press... Er, I realize I may be just a a hick from Oregon, but I;n ;your wide travels you have apparently never been to Medford. If you had, you would realize that this is the land that timne forgot. Sob for your information and enlightenment, I didn't lowball anything, I went with what waqs availible. We don't all live in LA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woldson Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 I guess you don't have internet down yander? Very primitive indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony D Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 (edited) Er, I realize I may be just a a hick from Oregon, but I;n ;your wide travels you have apparently never been to Medford. If you had, you would realize that this is the land that timne forgot. Sob for your information and enlightenment, I didn't lowball anything, I went with what waqs availible. We don't all live in LA. Medford, Salem, PDX, and yes even Medford when forced to drive to Seattle for a job a couple of times stayed in the 'new' Holiday Inn Express matter of fact---everybody has an excuse not to call their local dealer and get the address where to buy their service manuals. If I could get 'order from address' for VW service manuals from Robert Bently Publishing in RALPH MICHIGAN in 1979 by making a person-to-person long distance phone call to the nearest local VW Dealer in MARQUETTE MICHIGAN, I'm sure the bustling metropolis of MEDFORD OREGON area might have a local DOMESTIC-PRODUCTION PRODUCTS Dealer to consult on where to find a factory service manual for a Cobalt in 2010. (That means ANYTHING from Dodge, Chevy, Ford, BTW...) Poor excuse. Medford is a f-ing Gotham in comparison to Ralph...or my other favorite place: Ewen Michigan (We called it the 'Twin Locations' in tribute to Minneapolis-St. Paul...you know "The Big City"...) Fairly far apart (especially in 24" of new snow), with Ewen being closer to Bruce, but since the VW guy from Florida kept his stockpile of cars at Bruce Crossing it was a regular pilgrimage so we could share the 'official' manuals I had in exchange for the parts he had. And once a year I would pick him up for the Big Fur Rendevous/Sale over in Sagola (Amasa, actually...)THAT was a long day... but I digress. You were saying about Rural Medford again? 300" of snow annually, months below zero at a time during the winter and the only imported guy around for....er.....miles? Boo Hoo life is hard cry me a river...sorry if I don't feel your 'pain' it looks self-inflicted! In your travels, I doubt you've been to Ralph. Or Ewen. Or Julius Belaze's Fox Den at Bruce Crossing. Perhaps you were in Hulbert? I have, lived there, did that. I could get manuals over the phone and through the mail. If you can't today, it's purely sloth on your part, or cheapskated-ness. Edited June 21, 2010 by Tony D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strotter Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 Helms. Check here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatBlack Posted June 21, 2010 Share Posted June 21, 2010 but I digress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.