Building a stroker N/A budget 5K

[Rune K]

HI I`m building a stroker and I need help to deside on what parts to use $ on.

I whas at the salvage yard today and pulled an LD28 crank (steal 150$ ?)

goal is 230-250 whp.

 

Head work (ink head) 2k ? (what builder wold you use)

Block including boring $ ?

forged pistons (is it needed) 700$ or KA24

Forged rods (is it needed) 700$ or L24 9mm

Balansing of crank $ ?

Header (any recommendations)

Balanser

efi (MS edis) 600$

Camshaft 500$ ? (recommendations)

Bearings, waterpump,++++ 1k

 

Or just look fore a used tuned NA engine.

 

This is my first post on this forum (I have been reading fore years, thanks fore all the knowhow on this forum)

 

Regards

Rune K

Norway

[roger280zx]

Can you build a stroker for five grand, yes. Will it make and survive 250 whp for five grand, not likely. It's not imposible, I'm sure its been done. And if your as savy a junk yard searcher as your post sugests you are, go for it.

 

BTW the seach will be your friend. There is a ton of stroker and N/A information on this board. Look at BRAAP's head posts - that is where I suggest you start.

 

Good Luck!

[T-Bone028]

For $5000...you could have an awesome L28et with a very streetable 250hp. Not trying to dissuade you in any way, but it is most likely the easier route, especially since you are already planning on going megasquirt instead of carb. Any way you look at it, NA power levels generally require more money than a forced induction or V8 transplant.

 

My car's 3.1L was built by the previous owner, so I am able to reap his hard work. If it were to ever blow-up to the point of being unrepairable, I will most likely just go with a stock flat-top L28, use an E-31 head I have sitting around, have some headwork done to it, and add a hot cam.

 

Good luck with your project.

[josh817]

Can you build a stroker for five grand, yes. Will it make and survive 250 whp for five grand, not likely. It's not imposible, I'm sure its been done. And if your as savy a junk yard searcher as your post sugests you are, go for it.

 

BTW the seach will be your friend. There is a ton of stroker and N/A information on this board. Look at BRAAP's head posts - that is where I suggest you start.

 

Good Luck!

I don't think the outlook is that grim if he builds it himself. A lot of money gets tossed into labor and if you have the tools, you might as well do it yourself. You are paying for the builders attention to detail more so than for him to turn a wrench. Making sure everything is clean, within spec, don't use towels with lint, etc. Little things that will make a difference in engine survival and power. Porting a head should be left to the experts, Braap (Paul), 1 fast Z (Bryan), Dave Rebello, those people are where you may want to go. The main things that you have to worry about are the large investments. I think I spent $2000-$3000 on my motor but if I had someone port my head, subsequently do a way better job than I did, you can add at least $1000. I think $1000-$2000 for a head would be typical after a port job, good springs, retainers, valves, and a select cam.

 

You're expenses will be as follows:

V07 crank: $450-$600

Pistons:

-Ross custom 6 piston (tell them what specs you want): $613

-cast KA24 (ebay pistons): $120 for 8

Worked head with cam and everything: $2000

L24 rods:

-stock rods: $200

-Corillo: $900

Block: $200

Intake:

-45mm carbs with manifold: $1200

-40mm carbs with manifold: $600

-any of the stock EFI manifolds: lets just say $100

Tunable EFI management: $300

Exhaust: highly dependent on the headers but generally like $300

Machine work (turn crank, bore block, shot peen rods):$400

ARP hardware (head studs, main studs, rod bolts): $300

 

You are then left with the little things such as timing chain kit, bearings, oil, oil filter, just stupid ♥♥♥♥ to get started.

 

Now don't hold me to these prices, I did my budget build 2 years ago. A LOT of this stuff you can have luck finding in junk yards and stuff! The intake, rods, a head to start with, a block, and a crank can be found if you try hard enough. If you want a killer motor, do forged pistons and ARP hardware and even if its not a really hot motor, run ARP rod bolts at least ($70). If you know how to tune, do EFI. As you can see, there are different paths you can take for almost all the parts.

 

Be frugal when buying parts. When I did my build cranks could be found for $200-$400 and $500 on the pricey guys. I have now seen them go for $700. I bought mine at $350. L24 rods came from a spare block I had, the people that do own them are now asking more. The point is that you aren't stuck if you can't find the exact parts. Can't find L24 rods but you plan on using forged pistons? Maybe you wish to go with Corillo rods, even better, get L28 rods and since you can change the specs on your custom forged pistons, you can play with the pin height to get the right compression, maybe add domes. For headers, there are so many it just depends on which one you get. Generic ones, after shipping will run $300 at least. I bought multiple headers. Started with a 6-1 for like $90 shipped and then ceramic coated it. Then I did the 6-3-2 that I have now, for about the same. It wasn't as expensive as you would think because I would just resell the old header.

 

Those are my thoughts. When I did my build, I focused on the big items I had to buy. Even though when we were ready to start the motor, water, antifreeze, oil, oil filter, fuel line, fuel filters, all that crap, came out to be a good amount of money too. However, it was a light load. I could use a months worth of pay to get all that, as compared to several months pay for just a crank. Yah Tom Thumb paid $7/hr.

[z-ya]

Figure basic machining costs to be in the $2000 to $2500 range.

 

This should include:

 

- Cleaning

- Balancing

- Boring

- Check block and head for cracks/leaks/flatness

- basic 3 angle valve job and resurface

- check/resize rods

- Press new pistons on rods

 

Any port work would be additional. Forged pistons and aftermarket rods are a waste of money on an NA street motor. Use Nissan OEM KA24 pistons and L24 9mm rods.

 

If you want to just have someone do the head up for you with port work etc., figure $2500 including cam, rockers, springs, lash pads etc. I recently got this figure from an engine builder that built engines for the Bob Sharp team.

[josh817]

Yah my machine costs were low I figured. I got a shop rate since my dad owns a shop. Each shop rate will vary, and machine work is one of those things "you get what you paid for". So I'd pay a good amount for it....

[813492]

When you built the stroker engine did you use the 1mm cylinder head gasket?

Do you remember what the desire spacing/distance was between the pistons and

the valves?

I am using a 1 mm head gasket.

Trying trying to make sure that the two do not tough.

 

 

Thanks,

Clarence

[Xnke]

I don't know where you all are getting your machine prices...It was 120$ to have my block tanked, bored, honed, and magnafluxed; the head was 330$ to have it tanked, surfaced on three sides, milled .30 thousandths, new SI valves installed, and five-angle seats cut, and I had 80$ in tools/materials and 40 hours in the port job. Machine work does not have to be expensive, I'm not sure where these 5000$ stroker motors are coming from...the most expensive builds, perhaps; but a street motor? My complete engine build, including my custom manifold, TB's, and fuel system, totals up at just a little under 1500$.

 

Is machinework really that expensive in other parts of the world?

Edited August 19, 2010 by Xnke

[JMortensen]

I'd suggest you skip the stroker. Extra cost with a 12% gain to go from 2.8 to 3.1. I think your whp goal is doable with a 2.8. I ported and cc'd my head and I came out with ~240 whp. Spend the money on induction. Or a V8 swap. V8 gives much cheaper hp at least in the states.

[30 ounce]

I built my 3.0 liter last year with Rebello Racings 3.0 liter kit. It comes with Eagle 145mm forged rods, custom made JE forged pistons (I wanted 11.5:1 compression as that is what Isky (camshaft I am using) recomended) with eyebrow reliefs for the valves, Nismo .6mm metal head gasket, complete set of race bearings and an offset ground L28 crankshaft (stroke is 81mm) for $1800. I think to get 230-250 whp (250-285 engine dyno) you will need forged rods & pistons because you'll need an engine that will rev to 7000-8000 rpm reliably. You will also need a cam that will make peak hp at about 6800-7200 rpm. Anyway, my build went like this:

 

F54 block $175

Machine work for the block $900

Timing chain set $100

Head work $2000. Including the cam

I used my E-88 head off my 260. Welded the combustion chambers for higher comp. & better design to reduce detonation. Ported & flowed (twice). Spent a lot of time getting the head right!!!

SU carbs modified by Rebello Racing $800.

Probably $250 or more spent on misc. stuff

Of course $1800 3.0 liter kit

 

Total? $6025 maybe?? I'm sure I missed alot. 250 whp? Maybe, my z car club friends think I'm about 225-250 whp with thier butt dyno's. I have not dyno'd it yet, soon though. I am also at 5280 feet above sea level so if i got anywhere near 225 at the wheels I'll be proud.

[Tony D]

Apparently everybody here does NOT realize the stock Nissan L-Engine Rods are ALREADY FORGED!

 

(And coincidentally, I can personally attest they are good to an RPM number quite a bit higher than anybody in this post has discussed yet... Let's just say "9,999rpms PLUS")

 

[30 ounce]

I know that the stock rods are forged and quite strong but I have personally seen 3 engines with rods sticking out of the block. It was probably the bolts that let go but the rods were bent to hell too. Do you think the stock rods need to be shotpeened and polished or are they strong enough out of the box?

 

On another point: Jon said a stock 2.8 liter can do 240 whp NA with a lot of head work and the proper cam. That is only 100 hp per liter. Not unheard of even back in the 70's.

[JMortensen]

I know that the stock rods are forged and quite strong but I have personally seen 3 engines with rods sticking out of the block. It was probably the bolts that let go but the rods were bent to hell too. Do you think the stock rods need to be shotpeened and polished or are they strong enough out of the box?

Maybe they downshifted to 1st instead of 3rd or a piston let go or a crankshaft broke. There are many ways the rods can get bent, especially once things start going wrong. Stock rods are pretty damn strong. I'd be more worried about pistons if the plan is to spin really high rpms or run really high compression.

 

On another point: Jon said a stock 2.8 liter can do 240 whp NA with a lot of head work and the proper cam. That is only 100 hp per liter. Not unheard of even back in the 70's.

It takes some work, but it's far from impossible. Take a look at zredbaron's head buildup page for a good blueprint on how to do it. He's getting 267 whp out of a 3.1 stroker which is 86 whp/liter, but he's running 40 mm carbs. My gut tells me he'd pick up some more power with 44s or 45s. Regardless, it's a good one to follow if that's the power goal. With bigger carbs I would guess that 250 whp is possible with the 2.8. http://forums.hybrid...-shortcuts-max/

[johnc]

I know that the stock rods are forged and quite strong but I have personally seen 3 engines with rods sticking out of the block. It was probably the bolts that let go but the rods were bent to hell too. Do you think the stock rods need to be shotpeened and polished or are they strong enough out of the box?

 

I've seen my share of failed L6 engines and I've never seen one caused by a rod failure. Generally its a failed piston pin or spun rod bearing that leads to a rod sticking out the side of a L6 block. All of those issues are problems with machining or assembly.

[randy 77zt]

how much time can you stand pulling parts at pick&pull?my diesel crank and 9mm 810 rods were pulled at pick&pull total cost about $200.member 510six donated some vg30dett pistons.my machinist bored my f54 block,balenced the assembly,bored and bushed the small end of the rods for floating pins,bored the block and assembled for $500.i used a nissan piston ring set from courtesey nissan..this set up is supposed to be about 8.3-1 compression ratio.if i wanted to go back to normally aspirated from turbo it would just need a piston change to flat top vg30 pistons.i run a n42 head and it is turboed..displacement is 2960cc.sometimes you can pay people on the spot to pull the parts-just stand there and watch.when its 90+ degrees and there is no shade pulling a diesel motor to scrounge the crank is a tough job

[Tony D]

I know that the stock rods are forged and quite strong but I have personally seen 3 engines with rods sticking out of the block. It was probably the bolts that let go but the rods were bent to hell too.

 

I've see a hell of a lot more than 3, and have to concur with John C, the rods are not the problem, it's people re-using old bolts, pulling the bottoms out of the cast-piston pin boss....

 

The L-Engine can literally throw cast pistons off the ends of a stock crank / stock rod combination.

 

It's just whenever I see people specifying 'forged rods' when referring to Nissan L-Engines it makes me tend to think of the 'parts batch amalgam' Honda guys rattling off a list of things that sound good, and who really haven't done a lot of homework.

 

100 HP/Liter is doable if you don't have to conform to sanctioned racing event rules. There are L24's out there with that kind of HP. It's a different driving experience than a stroker, though...

[2eighTZ4me]

After seeing some of these numbers, I'm wondering to myself why I can only get 213rwhp out of my stroker.

 

MN47 head that BRAAP did a full race port on. Racer Brown .500 lift cam, Rebello modified Mikuni 44's, Nismo header, 3" exh.

 

Not meaning to thread jack - but if someone can get 267rwhp out of a stroker running 40's, then either I did something wrong, OR there's a lot of ponies pent up inside my motor that need to find their way to the pavement.....sigh....

[Midnitz]

Keeping in mind that Nissan managed a 222hp out of a 3.0liter V6 in the 90s using 4 valve per cylinder technology and variable valve timing in earlier models, I'd say that 217hp out of a two valve per cylinder technology engine with less than optimal CFD research in the head /port castings is an accomplishment in itself.

 

Not to knock Paul Rs portwork...but designs have their limitations. This is why forced induction is so attractive.

 

With this said, focus on good cylinder head portwork, good balancing on the rotating assy, match the camshaft to the head flowrates. It is also a good idea to get the intake ported to match the heads' flowrates as well....this way you have a strong, tuned powerplant with no weak links.

[30 ounce]

I've see a hell of a lot more than 3, and have to concur with John C, the rods are not the problem, it's people re-using old bolts, pulling the bottoms out of the cast-piston pin boss....

 

The L-Engine can literally throw cast pistons off the ends of a stock crank / stock rod combination.

 

It's just whenever I see people specifying 'forged rods' when referring to Nissan L-Engines it makes me tend to think of the 'parts batch amalgam' Honda guys rattling off a list of things that sound good, and who really haven't done a lot of homework.

 

100 HP/Liter is doable if you don't have to conform to sanctioned racing event rules. There are L24's out there with that kind of HP. It's a different driving experience than a stroker, though...

 

I completley agree with you. When I was rattling off parts I was just listing what came in my 3.0 liter kit. I wanted to go with a diesel and 240 rods etc. but could not locate one. When I saw Dave Rebello's kit I went for it and am glad I did. Dave takes a 280z crank and offset grinds the rod journals so they are 2mm smaller wich of course requires rods with smaller big ends. Since he has to get custom made rods he gets them 145mm long and then gets pistons that look like they belong in a motorcycle because they are so small. I think all these add up to a huge weight savings in the rotating assembly a little more dwell at TDC. All I know is I ended up with a motor that loves to rev is totally drivable around town and and a blast at the track.

 

 

The 3 motors that I saw were at an old guys shop where I got my 240 carbs. He raced Datsuns for years and it would not suprise me if he cut corners building his motors. I do remember him telling me the rod bolts broke in one of the engines and he expected the others were the same. Kinda freaked me out seeing all those broken L series motors. Thought there might be something inherently wrong with them but now ten years later I'm sure it was him.

[2eighTZ4me]

"With this said, focus on good cylinder head portwork, good balancing on the rotating assy, match the camshaft to the head flowrates. It is also a good idea to get the intake ported to match the heads' flowrates as well....this way you have a strong, tuned powerplant with no weak links."

 

All that stuff was done. I gave my cam specs, and then port matched the intake myself to the head that Paul did. I have a "strong tuned powerplant" but apparently not as strong as others. This was tuned in my racecar with a wideband O2 and dialed right in to 12.8-13.2 under WOT. Not sure where else to go to let the ponies out. I guess it's at that "design limitation", albeit, others have surpassed my numbers with lesser motor. Wonder if it's that doggone MN47 head that I'm running.......might have to hog out one of my P90's and do a comparison.