seattlejester Posted October 17, 2012 Author Share Posted October 17, 2012 Hmm, I did find the wires for the "stock" pump, although I'm not sure where it traces back. Would you happen to know if the wire is a live wire? Or is there a connection I have to make to make it live (no battery in car quite yet, so no multimeter input)? I'll have to look at my wiring harness guide again. As of now, I've tapped the jumper that is replacing where the ballast resister goes for the signal for both the pump and the fan relays, that way both will be "on" when the car is in the on position. I've also ordered an inertia switch to kill the fuel pump in case of an emergency to be on the safe side! Unfortunately my replacement radiator is a tad thicker which prevents the use of the stock clutch fan, but my stock clutch fan decided to eat itself by running off balance against the radiator so that prevents the use of it even if the stock radiator wasn't full of rust. The one that came with the ZX motor was destroyed when I tried to remove it . I would have loved to have kept the clutch fan, but a stand alone dual fan setup lets me run that variable speed I may need in traffic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted October 17, 2012 Share Posted October 17, 2012 Hmm, I did find the wires for the "stock" pump, although I'm not sure where it traces back. Would you happen to know if the wire is a live wire? Or is there a connection I have to make to make it live (no battery in car quite yet, so no multimeter input)? I'll have to look at my wiring harness guide again. As of now, I've tapped the jumper that is replacing where the ballast resister goes for the signal for both the pump and the fan relays, that way both will be "on" when the car is in the on position. I've also ordered an inertia switch to kill the fuel pump in case of an emergency to be on the safe side! Unfortunately my replacement radiator is a tad thicker which prevents the use of the stock clutch fan, but my stock clutch fan decided to eat itself by running off balance against the radiator so that prevents the use of it even if the stock radiator wasn't full of rust. The one that came with the ZX motor was destroyed when I tried to remove it . I would have loved to have kept the clutch fan, but a stand alone dual fan setup lets me run that variable speed I may need in traffic. Check out the wiring diagram. I believe you have to activate the wire but I haven't done this myself. Many other have though and you should be able to find out how it's done. You don't need a battery to check the wiring. Get yourself a long cable and alligator clips and you can run continuity checks on anything you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) So I tried to start the car today. Added coolant, oil, and gas. Cranked without spark to get the fluids cycling. Then tried to crank. No dice. I can see the motor cranking (tilting, accessory belt spinning), I can hear the fuel pump going (fresh chevron premium gas, 1.5 gallons). Took the air filter off, and put in some starting fluid, motor started making some noise, and I would see a bit of a yellow flash from the exhaust (open header, yellow flash means unburnt fuel igniting at end of stroke?), which leads me to believe that I do have spark, but my timing is off? Does it sound right to bank on my timing being out of whack? I had everything matched up to the diagram from the engine rebuild book. Edited October 22, 2012 by seattlejester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 DEFINITELY start by verifying timing. 1. Pull valve cover. 2. Rotate engine to TDC that has front #1 cylinder cam lobes pointing up like rabbit ears. 3. Pull dizzy cover. 4. Check which plug wire the rotor is facing towards. 5. Verify this wire goes to #1. 6. Configure plug wiring in order from there, going counterclockwise from #1 you established. I spent the better part of a day getting an L motor running and if I'd not ASSumed anything and followed these steps I'd have had the engine running in well under 15 minutes. Turns out my oil drive shaft was 180 degrees out, woops. It's EXTREMELY easy to get the oil pump drive off just a tooth which can make it EXTREMELY difficult to get the engine running right, or running at all in some cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 (edited) My strut brace makes removing the valve cover a chore, but I guess now is the best time to fix that issue while I check timing. You are definitely right, better to just start by visually confirming everything rather than assuming everything stayed in place. Hopefully will report tomorrow with progress. Thank you for the detailed write up. Cheers. Edited October 26, 2012 by seattlejester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Put more gas in the tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 I will grab another gallon or so, but it is a sumped fuel cell so I don't think it has the traditional gas pick up tube problem. Took my strut brace off removed my valve cover and set the first two cam lobes to bunny ears, checked the timing on the pulley to Tdc, and the distributor shaft looked to be in the right place. After draining the oil and pulling the oil pump a half dozen times, I realized the shaft was in the right place. Turns out my distributor was not! Used the coarse and fine adjustments and I am comfortably a few degrees btdc whereas before I was quite a bit past Tdc. It was 3 am so I didn't try cranking it for long, but I got quite a few more burps from the engine before my battery started getting weak. Hopefully will be able to dial in the timing and get it to start later today after jumping the battery from my daily driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 No dice. I can only get the car to back fire once or twice, but can't get it going. Things I know: New battery, freshly charged from daily driver. Motor cranks. Builds oil pressure. Has fresh 5w-30 oil. Has fresh Chevron Premium Gas. Currently no air filter. Things left to try/check: Spark plug gap. Replace rotor, cap, and coil. Rebuild carbs. Play around with oil pump distributor shaft again. Any local guru's want to take a look? I can pay/feed/whatever you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 Q: Have you tried using any sort of starting ether to get it running? Get someone else on the ignition switch and give it some spurts and see if it's much more ready to cough. If timing is close, and you have good spark, you should even be able to get the engine to run for a bit just on starting ether if you keep spraying it. If this is the case, and you get it semi-running but stops once you stop spraying ether, then you definitely have something going on with your fuel supply. Then from there you can check for fuel pressure at the carbs, then from there verify you don't have something obviously wrong with the carbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zex Posted October 25, 2012 Share Posted October 25, 2012 I live close. If you stil need help this weekend send me a PM with your phone number. If we have to I can "borrow" you some parts, I have an extra dizzy/cap/rotor in the garage somewhere... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted October 26, 2012 Author Share Posted October 26, 2012 280zex: I would be very greatful, pm inbound! I'm going to try a few more things tonight, but I have a feeling that won't be enough. Gollum: Yes the starter fluid I'm using says ether on it. I've even tried lifting the piston and spraying it in, but the most I've managed to get is a pretty loud backfire. Schedule for tonight will be as mentioned above: Charge all the spare batteries I have lying around, and try cranking with crank assist. Replace coil, cap, and rotor. Re-gap spark plugs. If that does nothing I'll try rotating a tooth on the oil pump, and if I still don't have any luck. I'll seriously consider taking off the carbs for a rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zex Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 personaly it sounds like your timing is slightly off. Take a step back, chill, do some reading here on HBZ. Check the most simple of things, like the center contact nipple inside the dizzy cap. I had one "look" ok but when I poked at it with a phillips screwdriver, the darn thing fell apart!! Check your dizzy wires at the pick-up unit, or points. Many a time did I belive that my wire crimp was ok, then re-checking my work, I descovered that I got the wire housing inside the crimp. This gives a very weak signal, almost enough to work, but not quite. If you are getting a backfire using starting fluid, my bet is your dizzy timing is a bit off. Just enough so to piss ya off!! Dont freak out is the best thing I can tell ya right now, I pm'd ya my fone number. I can bring out another electronic dizzy, my timing light and some other goodies!! We will breathe some life into that Z of yours in no time fo sho!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted October 26, 2012 Author Share Posted October 26, 2012 Thank you for the advice. I feel like I'm really really close, but I must be missing something somewhere. So no go on all of the parts above. Tried spraying ether while cranking and still just a few thuds but nothing even remotely resembling a running car. Only things left on the check list is gapping plugs, moving the distributor gear again, and rebuilding the carbs. The battery charger is super excellent though . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamo3 Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Did you adjust valve? http://atlanticz.ca/zclub/techtips/valveadjust/index.html In my case, after adjust valve, engine starts so easily with NOS dizzy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leon Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 Get a timing gun on it. Carbs don't matter at this point since you're spraying starting fluid in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted October 28, 2012 Author Share Posted October 28, 2012 (edited) SUCCESS! First of all thank you everyone! Couldn't have even started to tackle this problem without your help. 280zex came by and we got the car running very reliably and boy does it make a great noise! (Click for video, phone mic overloaded, open header, smoke from ceramic coating curing) tamo3 was actually spot on. I had the shop do the head without the cam towers. And I neglected to take a look after it was assembled. Honestly I was surprised this was even mentioned as this didn't even come to my mind, all I was thinking was fuel, air, and spark, but I neglected compression! Story: 280zex came over in his very gnarly 280z and immediately started diagnostics. He and I both noticed how easily the starter turned despite new rings and such. A quick bump without the valve cover yielded no noise from the valve train. Turns out quite a few of the rocker/cam gaps didn't have nearly enough clearance forcing the valves to stay open not allowing the cylinder to develop compression. He adjusted them, but strangely some of them still didn't have enough clearance despite being maxed out on rocker adjustment (hopefully just needs breaking in?). After the first complete adjustment of intake and exhaust, we were rewarded with a hiss, signifying compression. He went down the line, some of them not quite getting enough gap, but maxed out adjustment on those. After that, we tried to crank the motor, but no dice on the ignition. Looks like the wire to the positive side of the coil wasn't sending much if any signal at all. After splicing some new connections we were greeted with some major stuttering. Some starter fluid and we had ignition! Car ran for a bit and stalled a few times. After bumping up the idle speed, she lives! A really big shout to 280zex. He drove over an hour is typical Seattle weather, gapped my plugs, adjusted my valves, and took care of some of the wiring, all this without asking for anything, just genuine great guy help. Aside: Big thanks goes out to everyone for helping me along thus far, I realize I still fell into the stereotypical traps: posting answered questions, not using my own head, looking for the easy way out, etc. But your comments, your critique, your views kept me going. And I feel like I can finally say my car is truly near the finish line. I will have tires on order in the next two weeks, the registration updated, the windshield installed, and the doors properly aligned, and will literally start buttoning the little bits. This is only stage one of my build and I plan on stepping up the hybridZ aspect of this build after getting to know my new ride. Stay tuned! Edited October 28, 2012 by seattlejester Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
280zex Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Make shure you go back and check them valves!!! and check your oil spray bar. Remove all your spark plugs, remove valve cover, and turn the engine over with the starter. You should be able to see oil coming outa the squirter holes quickly. Just make shure they spray in the correct direction (rocker arm to cam). Get a towel/s on the passenger side of the engine. I have done this, it works, kinda messy, 2 people is best for this job. Also make shure to rewire that fan control directly to the battery. It will turn on and off automaticly. I have the same setup installed for 6+ years. It has never hurt the battery, even with the 2 different fans running at the same time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Woohoo! Congrats. Gotta love the hybridZ community. I hope 280zex got a beer or something out of this at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil_S30 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 280zex to the Rescue! Brian how do you like his car? haha It's fast huh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seattlejester Posted October 28, 2012 Author Share Posted October 28, 2012 I didn't feel right asking for a ride at night, with the road so wet. I'll have to bug him next time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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