Early 1970 240Z at Ecology! SAVE IT!

[DezertZ9]

gahhh. that makes me sad! someone should still try and get it....:/

[ModernS30]

Wanna eat your heart out on this one guys back east?

 

An offer of $700 for the car COMPLETE, before it was put into the yard likely would have secured it for you.

 

The chassis, maybe $300 if stripped totally plus shipping would get it to you. Still cheaper than rust repair on most cars in the Rust Belt.

 

Unless someone has a very historically significant car (and 99.999% won't) rust repair on a major scale is simply foolish and not fiscally justified.

 

As for 'ruining' someone's chances for a business of onsie-twosies... yeah right! I got people who fly from EUROPE and buy cars a CONTAINER LOAD at a time from SoCal (they do it from Japan as well...)

 

The cars are going to where people appreciate them and will spend the money to keep them maintained. I have sold cars 'for parts' that once in Europe were used as a complete vehicle because even heavily crash damaged, the SOLIDITY of the chassis made the repair to the wreck cheaper than the rust repair to the Euro Chassis.

 

As someone once said (who preps rally cars in Europe) "This chassis (a 1978 280Z) after acid dipping had less evidence of rust on it than a 3 year old BMW driven here daily!"

 

There are plenty of foolish people with more money than sense, fear not they will suddenly see the light and spend less for their car, or their rust repair. Some people you won't reach even with the Bat Signal!

 

A car is a car, if somebody wants to spend their money doing rust repair so be it. I went against it twice and finally got a good rust free shell for 500 dollars. Glad I went with a clean one to start with too.

[Nelsonian]

Is this in the ecology on Boyle Ave?

[rturbo 930]

A car is a car, if somebody wants to spend their money doing rust repair so be it. I went against it twice and finally got a good rust free shell for 500 dollars. Glad I went with a clean one to start with too.

Agreed. Some of us see our cars as far more than just a heap of metal.

[DezertZ9]

yes, it is the Ecology on Boyle. BUY THE Z!

[Tony D]

Agreed. Some of us see our cars as far more than just a heap of metal.

 

Rationalizing spending $5000 for rust repair when chassis replacement for 1/10 the cost (for a non-historic vehicle) is a pathalogical behaviour.

 

It has nothing to do with being a 'heap of metal'---it has to do with forethought and economic realities.

 

If you CHOOSE to spend $5000 repairing rust on a car you can get a replacement chassis for 1/10 the cost, it's your perogative, but it's not a normal thought process. If you have the money to WASTE more power to ya! Some people want bragging rights as to how much they spent on their restoration like a badge of honor. Others look at the challenge of bringing it back from the dead---and I can see that if you are a panel-beater making the panels by hand. But for the MAJORITY of people who will simply weld in replacement panels from another car starting with a rust-free chassis is FAR more reasonable both in terms of safety integrity and overall costs.

 

I watched a guy spend $3500 (in 1979 dollars!) on rust repair on a 1969 Corvair Monza when I was a teenager, we did it because in our Midwestern Rust-Belt Minds 'it's the thing to do'... When I moved to California less than 9 years later, and picked up a 1966 Corvair Corsa Turbo for $1600 (in 1989 dollars!) I realized (as did he) he wasted a lot of money stupidly 'resurrecting' a car that should have LOGICALLY gone to the scrap heap after being salvaged for parts. We would have been money and life experience ahead to BOTH fly to SoCal, buy a Corvair in L.A. and driven it back to Michigan for what we spent on RUST REPAIR ALONE. In the process we would have 'saved' a far more historically significant vehicle in the process (1966 Corvair Corsa Turbo is listed as a 'muscle car' for making 1+hp/CID and was the last year of it's production...)

 

But like I said, we were IGNORANT at the time. We didn't know an alternative to our madness existed.

 

I am here to point out there is an alternative. Ignorance is not something to be ashamed of...but when the realities are brought out in the open, to refuse to acknowledge them is no longer ignorance...

 

Since I won't be chipping up the Pine Tree that fell on my house tomorrow, I may go to the yard to check it out. Like I need another rust-free chassis laying around...

 

Remember, I lived in the rust belt, I know 'the thought process' -- this isn't some spoiled viewpoint, it's an EYE OPENER! Take it for what it's given forth as: a way to save a BUNDLE of money and save countless headaches down the road. Most rust repairs done in the USA I've seen when done on a major basis have been...uh...'sketchy' at best. Rarely are structural concerns properly addressed, or prevention of recurrance taken into account.

 

The people who have this romantic notion of 'bringing it back' usually haven't successfully done it. Watch the guys who have spent several tens of thousands of dollars on their car 'restoration' and almost to a man they all would say the same thing: "If I'd known what I could have bought a RUST FREE CHASSIS FOR $XXXX, I would have done that and put the money I saved towards XXXXXXX!" Seen 'em say that more than once. Romantisicisim is one thing, practical restoration realities are dictated by cash flow and your pocketbook.

Edited December 24, 2010 by Tony D

[rturbo 930]

Have you considered that some of us don't mind? And I doubt my rust repair will be $5000. That's not to say that if I get another Z car I won't go find one in California, but I don't mind spending the money on my rusty chassis. If I wanted an investment, it sure as hell wouldn't have been a car of any kind. It's a toy. Besides, it gives me an opportunity to learn a few things.

 

I understand the point you're trying to make, and I am aware that buying a rust free shell is much easier. If you don't have the time, and don't want whatever skills or knowledge that can be obtained from taking on a rust repair project (or already have done so), then I would have to agree with you. Sounds like that's your case. Also helps that you live in the land of rust free Datsuns.

Edited December 24, 2010 by rturbo 930

[Tony D]

"I don't mind spending the money on my rusty chassis."

 

Again, if you have the money to waste, more power to ya.

 

"If you don't have the time, and don't want whatever skills or knowledge that can be obtained from taking on a rust repair project (or already have done so), then I would have to agree with you. Sounds like that's your case. Also helps that you live in the land of rust free Datsuns."

 

Uh... yeah. Again, I'm just letting as many people as possible know there IS an alternative. Many people don't have a clue what will be involved, and don't have the money to waste. Which is apparently your case. Like I said, more power to ya. You are fortunate. Most people aren't.

[rturbo 930]

Well, actually I don't have the money to waste, but what little I get can be wasted on cars. I'm also going to do the repairs myself, since I have most of the tools, and the time, but not the money. That should help cut down on costs a LOT. We'll see how that goes, and I haven't completely ruled out getting a new chassis. I wouldn't think of paying a shop to repair my car unless I was loaded.

 

I'm also young enough that I don't have to worry too much about being really fincially responsible.

 

*shrug* Different strokes for different folks. I would sure as hell get a California car if I were in my dad's position. He doesn't have enough time to finish up a simple throttle linkage on his Charger, much less repair rust and body work. I think it's been 2 years now since it last ran...

Edited December 24, 2010 by rturbo 930

[Tony D]

I have had guys fly out one way on a Southwest flight to take posession of a $500 deal that they snatched up on E-Bay paying with Pay-Pal and storing at my place for free till they had the time (summer break) to come get it.

 

So for a $159 BWI to ONT Southwest Getaway Fare (each) bought three months in advance, $500 for the car, and the cost of gasoline and food on the way back (I can't remember if the four tires they checked as baggage were an additional cost or accepted by Soutwest as-is for checked transport. The friend came along as bag check, and for the adventure... They were young, under 25 as I recall... It would have been $50 for the two checked tires if he came alone.)

 

Anyway, they came with the skins off their rustbucket to drive it back across the country and did just that. Absolutely pristine chassis a little worse for some wear (sun faded red, but original paint). When the got back home, they commenced swapping the turbo'd drivetrain into the car and went from there.

 

Helluva lot more memorable driving across the country with a good friend than getting rust in your eyes and lighting your crotch on fire a couple of times! At least more pleasurable memories.

[kamikaZeS30]

Slightly off topic, but I figured that's okay because the thread has already been derailed:

 

What is annoying to me is that we can't go out of the country and legally import vehicles, anymore. Surprisingly enough, California is one of the states where it is still legal to own a right-hand-drive street vehicle. Good luck finding one that conforms to CARB standards.

 

I don't know whether it's to protect the domestic market here, or not, but there are very few vehicles you can import into the United States legally. Forget about anything sporty, due to emissions laws and "safety regulations"-- well, you know. It's all a bunch of crap. If I want to drive a vehicle without air-bags, that's my prerogative.

 

The feds have started a modern day witch-hunt for imported vehicles, now. They've been going around snatching up R33 and R34 skylines, from people who paid duties and fees to import them (and register them as OHVs), don't bother to pay any remittance and just crush them! What for? "They're not federalized, durrhurr." These aren't even vehicles that are being driven on the street, so the point is moot.

Edited December 24, 2010 by kamikaZeS30

[Tony D]

Slightly off topic, but I figured that's okay because the thread has already been derailed:

 

What is annoying to me is that we can't go out of the country and legally import vehicles, anymore. Surprisingly enough, California is one of the states where it is still legal to own a right-hand-drive street vehicle. Good luck finding one that conforms to CARB standards.

 

I don't know whether it's to protect the domestic market here, or not, but there are very few vehicles you can import into the United States legally. Forget about anything sporty, due to emissions laws and "safety regulations"-- well, you know. It's all a bunch of crap. If I want to drive a vehicle without air-bags, that's my prerogative.

 

The feds have started a modern day witch-hunt for imported vehicles, now. They've been going around snatching up R33 and R34 skylines, from people who paid duties and fees to import them (and register them as OHVs), don't bother to pay any remittance and just crush them! What for? "They're not federalized, durrhurr." These aren't even vehicles that are being driven on the street, so the point is moot.

 

That's seriously full of misinformaion. You CAN legally import vehicles, providing they meet or you can prove they meet federal standards. On vehicles older than XX years, this doesn't even apply!

Right-Hand-Drive vehicles are legal in EVERY state of the union, I don't know where 'california is one of the sattes where it is still legal'---it's legal in every one! And CARB standards? You're kinda shooting in the wind there, it's an import and would be smogged as a federal vehicle. Not that hard, really.

 

Now, no argument about nannystate crap. I find it totally incongruous that I can legally drive a 1966 VW Beetle, yet can not import basically the exact same vehicle from Mexico back in 2003 for only $6350 US. "It doesn't comply with current safety and emissions standards"--So true, but it FAR SURPASSES the 66 Beetle I can LEGALLY DRIVE HERE!

 

The people who imported Skylines...well they tried a fast one to get around the laws and a lot of them arrogantly said things to me like 'when was the last time you saw the federal government come after an individual who imported a car to the USA?' I'm the one laughing now with the 'I toldja so' look in my eyes. Everybody thought they would get around the laws saying 'oh, it's OHV or for racing only or display only' and spent the money to bring them in...and it CLEARLY states in the law that this limits them to 1 year of occupancy. I guess they figured after a year they would be scot-free... imagine that, BEING HELD TO THE LAW! Tried to pull a fast one, and got caught. Let me cry in my beer...

 

Sad thing is because of the unethical widespread fraudulent importation of these vehicles, they simply have been blacklisted and are now ILLEGAL to import. Onsies-Twosies would have been fine, but someone got greedy and tried mass importation, didn't comply...played fast and loose with the regulations and now they got burned and we all pay the cost!

 

Find a 1972 Skyline and Import it. You will be AMAZED how easy it is to do now compared to 20 years ago!

[kamikaZeS30]

You CAN legally import vehicles, providing they meet or you can prove they meet federal standards.

 

That's the problem, and why I was saying it's really difficult to import any vehicles into the United States. It also depends on who first federalized the cars for importation, that was the whole scandal with the R32/R33 Skylines, whoever went through the process decided to do something proprietary like weld a non-functional washer in someplace and if you don't have that random washer welded somewhere during inspection the car won't pass.

 

Sure it's POSSIBLE to import vehicles, but the way they go about the importation process, you might as well forget it. I don't see what the big deal is anyway, if I have a bill of sale, bill of lading, paid duties on it, why am I not allowed to have it, regardless?

 

The point isn't that they were arrogant or whether or not what they were doing was legal, the point is that they're allocating federal money to stop people from doing something that isn't really harming anyone in the first place. It's not like they're importing Chinese, Malaysian or Thai slave-girls that've been sewn into the upholstery along with 40 kilos of heroine and disassembled Russian model full-auto AK47s in the glove-box. No, it's a sports car, that for whatever reason our nanny government has decided to make next to impossible to import this car--or anything quality into this country-- it's like they're afraid we'll remember what it was like to own something of quality.

Edited December 27, 2010 by kamikaZeS30

[Tony D]

It IS that they were arrogant. I see the attitude all too often. They thought they could pull a fast one and are now shocked that the LAW is actually being enforced. Like I said on another topic, most people are shocked when they are caught in the act of being guilty.

 

There was more to it that 'a proprietary washer' --- the facts of the matter were they were outright fraudulent in their federalization. Upon further in-depth investigation it was found that it was IMPOSSIBLE to maked them comply.

 

But as said before: the law is the law and don't get shocked when you break it and get caught!

 

Properly importing a vehicle is NOT that hard a task, but vechiles aren't as simple as they once were. The root of this whole debacle with the Skylines was they thought they could bank on the 'when was the last time' mentality---there were a lot of knowing and unknowing people caught up in it, and they all got burned---some deservedly so.

 

As someone who has LEGALLY imported non-conforming vehicles to the USA in the past, I find it laughable that someone gets burned for pulling a fast one and then is shocked. For me it's a nice 'well, someone was awake at NHTSA today...'

 

PERSONAL imports are EXCEEDINGLY EASY to accomplish.

 

You do it as a BUSINESS, you best mind your P's & Q's because it's a BUSINESS and you WILL be held to the same standard as any other OEM importing vehicles.

 

As for bill of lading, duties, etc... you CAN have it. But you bought it and imported it under the RULES---it you didn't read and understand them when you did it...uh...don't cry to me that you have your vehicle confiscated because you are in violation of the agreement you made when you imported it---they tell you it must be reexported after a year or destroyed. You think you should be exempt from that contractual obligation?

 

I detest rules as much as the next guy, but I at least don't cry when I get caught trying to pull a fast one.

 

Whining on an internet forum isn't going to change it. Watch who you elect, move to change what you don't like. But in the meantime, don't express shock when the law is enforced! Sure there are plenty of others to enforce that would seem to me to be a better way to spend the money...but then again to see anything enforced is better than nothing. Vote Right.

Edited December 27, 2010 by Tony D

[kamikaZeS30]

I wasn't involved in imported any Skylines, personally. I was using it as an example.

 

The point I'm trying to get at is that the whole idea behind having to prove emissions and safety standards seems like a government protection racket for the domestic market. Given that the safety standards have become a little ridiculous, drive up the cost of ownership and the same is true for emissions. Ad to that the fact that in California, they've basically done away with anything over 91 Octane (labeling it as "race fuel," therefore not for use in highway vehicles) I heard a rumor that somewhere here in SD county there is a station that still sells 93, but I haven't seen 93 in a very long time. That could improve vehicle emissions by allowing a leaner burn with more ignition advance, but y'know, because it might let someone "go fast" they ban it.

 

I suddenly feel like I'm one of those aliens from Star Trek: TNG. "We look for things... things to make us go."

 

Edited December 27, 2010 by kamikaZeS30

[Tony D]

" seems like a government protection racket for the domestic market. "

 

Like any other country.

 

This also exposes your unfamiliarity with importation channels. A personal importation is EXEMPT from Federal Emissions Requirements if the vehicle is 5 model years old or older. You still have DOT to contend with, though. At least it once was...

If the vehicle is old enough, there is NO compliance required...

 

You're sorely misinformed on why we have 91 here in CA... sorely misinformed. You need to get more information before making comments such as these. You're way off base.

 

I'm being polite.

[johnc]

And I'm closing this thread.