katokid Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Time to start my Hybridz build thread. I started my project about a year ago and you can view my build to date on our Aussie forum http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php/topic,6400.0.html Through work, I was fortunate enough to do a BMW advanced driver training course at a Phillip Island race track quite a few years ago and got to thrash their E46 M3's around for the day. Was super impressed by the S54 engine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_S54B32 .Your grandmother could drive it to the shops as it was smooth and quiet with excellent torque but then had this manic performance when you mashed the throttle, very addictive! Since then I harboured thoughts of doing a conversion of some kind one day. Ive done quite a few old school V8 conversions in the past and I like really different stuff so as time went on I started looking at candidates for a retro conversion (modern high perf, EFI/turbo engine) into an older car. Pre 1975 means I didn't have to worry about emissions and this is what led me to Hybridz and the Zeds. I was tempted to go the turbo Nissan RB or Toyota JZ route but the more I got into Zeds the more I appreciated the history and wanted to stay true to the spirit of the car with a NA in-line 6. I looked seriously at doing a NA RB25/30 with throttle bodies but the cost to do it properly really started to add up so I started looking at BMW alternatives. Ive really only seen the S54B32's (E46 M3's) swapped into older BMW's (mainly E30) but they need too many inputs from the chassis (DSC and fly by wire throttle) to run them properly with the factory ECU and the cost side and finding someone who had after market ECU experience turned me off so this settled the deal and I started looking for a S50B32. As I expected S50B32's are like rocking horse s*#t to find in Australia and then I saw a post from Mike (NZeder) about crewing on an M3 Targa car and thought they might be more available in NZ, turns out they weren't but Mike put me onto Ron Tyler's Hybriz thread. This was in February of 2010 and it confirmed that the similar M50 based US spec engine would fit in the LHD S30 and gave me some reassurance that I could make the S50B32 fit into our RHD cars. I saw an Ebay ad for an S50B30 (earlier 3.0 litre, single vanos version) "conversion kit" from a wrecker in the UK and it was reasonably priced, I spoke with them and while it wasn't the S50B32 I really wanted it was still a pretty good deal as even in the UK the S50B32's sell very quickly. They arranged to have me share a container with a guy that runs a prestige panel shop in Sydney who buys all his bits from them so I agreed to buy the S50B30. About two weeks latter the wrecker rang to say they had just had a S50B32 come in and asked if I wanted it.....freight costs for two engines was going to be the same as for one so I bit the bullet and took it as well with the plan being to sell the S50B30 to recoup some of the costs. This was back in March last year mind you. I had paid up front for the engines but there were issues with the guy in Sydney waiting for parts and a car to fill his container so I just had to wait, meanwhile the missus is giving me grief thinking I had lost my (our) money with all the delays and to be honest I lost a fair bit of sleep over the whole deal. To cut a long story short, the container arrived in Sydney in mid December and I arranged for my stuff to be freighted to Melbourne and finally got everything home on the Wednesday before Christmas. So what did I end up getting.......essentially 2 complete conversion "kits". One from a 95 M3 (3.0 litre) and one from a 98 Evo M3 (3.2 litre). Kits each included, engine, gearbox, matching ECU, EWS (anti theft)and keys, wiring harnesses, front crossmember, driveshaft and complete rear subframe with diff, axles and brakes all assembled. I also received all the extras I asked for like throttle cables, shifter, dash, power steering hoses and reservoir, front section of exhaust, clutch MC and slave...all the bits I would need for my swap. The plan was always to sell the S50B30 kit and probably the Evo axle assembly to offset the cost of the bits I will keep. If I get the $ I want for these then the S50B32 will be a reasonably affordable engine but given the capital outlay and the heartache associated I wouldn't do it again! Pics of my early Christmas present arriving at home: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted January 19, 2011 Administrators Share Posted January 19, 2011 Very excited for you, David. The Euro spec motor should make for a remarkable Z... 7 lbs/hp, all the silky-ness and music of a straight-six, with a dose of NA ITB response. Jealous, I am. Thanks for sharing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katokid Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 I had been watching RTz 's thread from the begining with great interest and when I got to stage where I was reasonably comfortable that the swap was doable I shot Ron a PM and asked a few questions. I owe Ron a big thanks as he was very helpful and indeed keen to see me go ahead with my conversion. The engine block for both the US spec S52B32US and the Euro S50B32 are derived from the basic M50 engine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M50 used for most 6 cylinder applications since the early 90's so I was reasonably confident that the engine mount bracket holes cast into the blocks would be the same. Ron was kind enough to provide me with a set of his mount brackets which I really appreciated as it would provide me a great start point given that apart from the block the engines are considerably different...... but more on that latter. Ron had designed his mounts to work with E30 325 isolators as the E36 design is offset and doesn't lend itself well to the Datsun pedestals. The original BMW isolators are known to break easily so I chose heavy duty Bimmerworld mounts http://store.bimmerworld.com/heavy-duty-e30-325-engine-mount-set-p523.aspx which arrived last Friday. Finally I had everything I needed to install the engine for the first time and I was determined to get it in that night. Until this point I was making lots of assumptions based on Ron's swap about how the S50B32 would fit, turns out the difference in engines will cause some issues but nothing that cant be dealt with. Ron's mounts worked a treat and it pretty much bolted in...after I removed the bonnet latch bracket. The gearbox crossmember is nearly a bolt in too and the best news is that the trick factory stainless exhaust headers look like they will fit with a bit of massaging of the #6 primary. Ive got the matching Getrag 6 speed that comes with the S50B32 but have installed the engine for now with the ZF 5 speed from the earlier 1995 E36 M3 as the Getrag is longer, heavier and supposed to be not as nice shifting as the ZF 5 speed. I may yet go with the Getrag but for the initial installation it was easier to go with the 5 speed based on what I had seen from Ron's posts and it was nearly a bolt in for me as well even though I have an early 240 with a significantly different crossmember design. I had to use the sump from the S50B30 as the S50B32 has a dual oil pump and the extra depth at the front of the sump would interfere with the steering rack. In addition Ive installed a Subaru WRX power steering rack http://www.viczcar.com/forum/index.php/topic,7174.0.html which is larger diameter and stands higher off the crossmember than the STD Zed rack, this may yet cause some driveline alignment issues. I will post more on the sump/oil pump differences soon. I'm going to run the factory ECU and have the matching EWS, harness and keys to make the anti theft system work. I managed to get some spare time on Sunday afternoon and already had a laser pointer in preparation and confirmed that the laser intersects the centre of the diff flange to low. The trans is already sitting as high as possible (hits the roof of the tunnel if you go any higher) so I need to lower the nose of the engine relative to the diff, I cant lower the engine any closer to the rack so the only alternative is to lower the nose of the engine by lowering the crossmember as Ron did by using spacers between the crossmember and the chassis rail. This will also buy me some clearance between the tunnel and the top of the trans as well as the accelerator lever for the throttle bodies and the bonnet. Top of the rocker cover is close too so a bit more room wont hurt. Lots more to do before Im happy but its a good first install! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katokid Posted January 19, 2011 Author Share Posted January 19, 2011 Thanks to you Ron as you gave me the confidence to go ahead with it ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTHALOSISM Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Woot!!! good to hear everything has gone as some what planned (so far). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rturbo 930 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 This is going to be a fantastic build. Will definitely be watching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarolinaTZ Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Great work! I followed your thread on "vic" and really like your thoroughness. Excellent job on the rocker reinforcements. Look forward to seeing the progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katokid Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 Going backwards here but useful for anyone else when lifting these engines...... The factory lift points are a cast in hole in the rear of the block near the bellhousing under the inlet manifiold and a bracket on the thermostat housing. If you sling with chain or webbing belt from these points the resultant angles puts a lot of pressure on the fuel and vaccum rails and wiring harness cover. Dont know what they use at the factory or if there is a special BMW tool for the job so I fabbed one up using 5mm plate that attaches at the 2 top bellhousing bolts and some more 5mm strap with a 30 x 30 RHS reinforcing bar that runs forward to the thermostat housing. Works a treat especially with the steep angle to install in the engine bay with the trans attached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katokid Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 For anyone doing a M50 or US spec S50/52 conversion you can use the standard sump as the oil pumps are all the same and will provide the steering rack clearance you need. Same applies for anyone wanting to do a Euro S50B30 swap (the front of the sump is slightly deeper (4mm) than the standard sump but not enough to cause problems). For anyone wanting to do a Euro S50B32 swap like myself you will need to use a different sump because the S50B32 has a dual oil pump with an extra scavenge point at the front of the sump which results in the front of the sump being deeper and will definitely interfere with the steering rack. It gets more complicated in that the Euro engines run a double row timing chain which means the oil pump sprocket is stepped to the rear of the engine and is also larger in diameter. This in turn means you cant use the standard oil pump sprocket..... and the larger diameter Euro sprocket wont fit in the standard M50 or US spec S50/52 sump. Bottom line is you have to use the Euro S50B30 sump or modify the standard M50 or US spec S50/52 to gain the clearance for the larger oil pump sprocket. I was fortunate enough to have the S50B30 sump so thats what Ive used. A new Euro S50B30 sump will be very expensive and finding a second hand one would likely be near impossible so I think modifying the standard sump would be the way to go, not to hard or expensive. Pumps below, left to right: Standard M50or US spec S50/52 then S50B30 then S50B32 Sumps in the same order Standard oil pump sprocket Stepped and larger Euro sprocket The change to the dual oil pump for the S50B32 was a big improvement to avoid oil starvation issues so Im disapointed I cant use but will install an Accusump reservoir for additional insurance. At least the S50B30 sump is larger and has better baffling than the standard M50 or US spec S50/52 sump so that's a bonus. The Euro sumps dont have fins like the standard sumps becasue the Euro engines also have factory oil coolers which can be retrofitted to the M50 or US spec S50/52 engines but the housing is costly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katokid Posted February 4, 2011 Author Share Posted February 4, 2011 VAC Motorsport oil cooler kits for those interested, first one is housing only. Second is full factory set up for an E36. http://store.vacmotorsports.com/vac---bolt-on-euro-oil-filter-housing-kit---m50-m52-s50us--s52us-p611.aspx http://store.vacmotorsports.com/bmw---euro-oil-cooler-kit-e36--z3-p555.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katokid Posted February 11, 2011 Author Share Posted February 11, 2011 Haven't got much done lately as we had a family holiday down the coast and then work was frantic when I got back. Finally got out to the shed and knocked over the RT mount . I ended up making one from scratch as the designs on the interweb don't fit my car, it only has two mounting holes and also with the R200 in place the mount was about an inch too far forward and I confirmed the moustache bar was the right way around, not sure whats different about my car but it is an earlyish 240 and I'm constantly surprised by the subtle differences between the years. In the end I was glad I made one from scratch as its fits my car well compared to the one I borrowed from a fellow vicz member which would have required a bit of a rework to fit nicely into the tunnel. I made mine in situ which took a bit longer but it revealed that the Energy Suspension isolator Part number 3-1108 doesn't actually sit horizontal in the car, as expected its inclined because the diff it bolts to is inclined (about 3 deg nose up in mine) the side view in the photos shows how much, no big deal but it means the isolator wont be twisted to start with. Ive also fitted the strengthening gusset on the front side as theres no room for it at the rear like on most installations Ive seen. More good progress last night.....got the trans crossmember pretty well finished, just need to gusset for strength and add a spacer on the right hand side where it bolts up to the floor. Made a template from 1mm sheet and then transferred that to 5mm plate. I don't have metal folding brake so used the drawbar of the horse float and a sledge hammer...got the job done surprisingly well, just don't tell the missus I took some paint off her beloved float in the process! Crossmember only took a bit over an hour to get to this point, was surprisingly easy, in fact the whole conversion from a mechanical standpoint will be pretty well bolt in and very easy. Picture shows the trans in its final position to achieve the driveline alignment required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katokid Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 Got the trans crossmember finished on the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katokid Posted February 15, 2011 Author Share Posted February 15, 2011 Next up was the exhaust. I really hoped that I could use the factory stainless steel headers and the first thing I checked once I had the engine roughly located in the car for the first time was to see how they may or may not fit. The headers are a separate pair of 3 into 1's and reassuringly it looked like the front would fit no problems and the rears would only require some massaging of the #6 primary which sticks out at a ridiculous angle compared to the rest, this is to clear the steering shaft as it was fitted in the E36 RH drive configuration. I figured that all I needed to do was cut the #6 primary near the collector and further up near the cylinder head and rotate it towards the engine, easier said than done as I had to figure out the axis on which it would rotate at the collector and then project where and what angle to make the cut further up. I was pretty nervous and had a couple of beers before I took the saw to the pipes and fortunately I got it right on the first try. I still need to fill in the wedge I created at the collector but a quick tack and trial fit in the car revealed that I had adequate clearance. I might try and squeak a bit more clearance as its I suspect the engineers will want more room between the pipe and the steering shaft. #6 primary pipe and how it sticks out before surgery....... #6 primary pipe after surgery..... In the car.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katokid Posted March 11, 2011 Author Share Posted March 11, 2011 Well all the firewall mounted clutch MC alternatives I looked out just won’t work. I actually only have 60mm clearance between the firewall and the rear of the cylinder head so the longest the MC could be is about 50mm to provide the 10mm clearance the engineers demand and as far as I can tell there is nothing on the market that is the ¾†bore that I need and is that short. The other issue is that the Z pedal delivers only a short 25mm stroke at the MC which isn’t enough The under dash alternatives were either a bellcrank set up to turn it through 90 or 180 degrees or adapt something like the BMW set up on the side of the pedal box. I’ve done other conversions which were let down by excessive clutch pedal effort and or poor disengagement through lack of actuation so which ever solution I went with I’m determined to get this right and this means replicating the original BMW set up in regards to MC and slave cylinder sizes and stroke. The bellcrank route has potential for fitment, friction and geometry issues which aren’t attractive. I got master and slave cylinders from the wreckers in the UK so I know what I need to replicate. The E36 pedal box has a very compact plastic MC and an elaborately shaped plastic pedal. The remote reservoir line runs through the firewall and is supplied from the brake master reservoir. The pressure line to the slave runs straight out the end of the MC and also through the firewall. The plastic MC is definitely useable but adapting the plastic pedal to the Z pedal box was not a realistic option and would not have worked asthetically. I found an earlier E30 pedal box at the wreckers that had a much longer aluminium MC but with a conventional steel pedal with a separate lever to push the MC. The plastic pedal in the E36 is the same plane as the MC hence the fancy shape but in the E30 the MC is offset to allow the pedal to run over the side of the MC so it has the conventional look but needs the offset lever to push the MC. Some rough measurement convinced me that the E36 plastic MC would work with the Z pedal if I added the offset lever to push it with. The Z pedal only delivers a short stroke with standard geometry but is also considerably longer than the BMW pedals so I could lengthen the MC lever to get more stroke and still get the same BMW pedal ratio of 5.7:1. It worked out really well…….. 3 x 5mm plate spacers to mount the MC and some more 5mm plate to make a lever for the pivot shaft and then some juggling to get the geometry correct through the travel of the piston (same principal as rocker arm to valve stem geometry) and I had it all mocked up. The sides of the 240Z pedal box are parallel with the pedal which makes it easier ands everything is square and pushing in the correct line. I used the shouldered bolt used to attach the lever to the MC push rod from the E30 as it was an exact fit for the E36 MC pushrod. I was still short a bit of MC piston travel once I had it bolted in the car but this was fixed by making a lower clutch pedal stop on the firewall. The original is tallish as its job is to stop the clutch pedal from hitting the accelerator rod that runs behind it, I will be using a cable set up so don’t need this. I also had to remove the LH bracket for the accelerator rod as it was in line with where the pressure line comes out of the MC. Once I had done this I had full travel and same pedal ratio as the BMW set up so I’m confident it will work and feel as good as possible. The shifter that came with the engines from the UK was too short (not the lever, the carrier), it measures 16cm from the lever ball pivot to where it attaches to the transmission case. I want the shifter to be in the original Z position in the tunnel as I like the interior to look factory original so I needed a shifter exactly twice as long as the one I had, the local BMW wrecker had a selection of different lengths and wouldnt you know it the shifter from a E46 318i is exactly the right length. As Charlie Sheen would say "Winning!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirpent Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 David, As they say, you can run but you cant hide............. Im itching to be able to eventually post as RT and yourself have in such great detail about my Bavarian experiment also. Always a pleasure watching yours evolve. Cheers John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank280zx Posted March 11, 2011 Share Posted March 11, 2011 Looking great funny i did half of these things to accomedate my M62B44 v8 than i dumped for the SBC 406 I love BMW!!! Im starting to lean more and more towards an m57 in a more daily oriented z ... hmmm someday !! Here are some specs: And they are dirt cheap ... ooh yeah and diesel M57TU2D30 2,993 cc (2.993 L; 182.6 cu in) 286 PS (210 kW; 282 hp)@4000, 580 N·m (430 lb·ft)@2000-2250 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators RTz Posted March 12, 2011 Administrators Share Posted March 12, 2011 Nice homebrew on the clutch MC For clarification, are you saying the dimension illustrated below is 32cm?... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katokid Posted March 12, 2011 Author Share Posted March 12, 2011 Yes Ron, 32cm. Positions it right in the middle of the original opening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katokid Posted April 1, 2011 Author Share Posted April 1, 2011 In the BMW application the clutch MC is fed by a flexible line that runs through the firewall and connects to the brake MC reservoir for fluid supply. The reservoir hose clips into the top of the plastic clutch MC as does the pressure outlet line. I had the clip and hose for the reservoir but not the hard line or clip for the line that goes to the slave cylinder, as you can see from the pics there is nothing else (that I know of) like it so I had to get the hard line from a wrecker. With it all mounted to the pedal box its a tight fit for the reservoir line underneath my mounting bracket but the rubber grommet where the reservoir line goes through the firewall is a perfect fit for the hole were the Datsun clutch MC normally is ....perfect. I will use a Commondore remote reservoir or something similar in the engine bay. The hard line will run across to the passenger side of the car on the inside of the cabin and then join a flexible hose to the slave cylinder outside. The BMW shifters are remote mounted to the body using a rubber bush at the rear, there are different designs but the bush sizes are all the same. I chose an E30 bush and bracket as it was easiest to modify which entailed cutting off the original bracket adding a new section and drilling and tapping two holes. I kept this as high as possible in the tunnel so that when I add a short throw shifter (quick shift) later on I don't run into issues with the shifter hitting the tail shaft which is a common problem in BMW's. Although the whole drivetrain is significantly offset to the drivers side the remote mounting made it possible to position the shifter right in the middle of the tunnel hole. Last thing for the shifter was to fix the jagged hole in the front of the tunnel opening. Being an early 240 it came with a 71A gearbox, somewhere in the past someone has fitted a 71B box and very roughly cut the hole at the front of the tunnel opening to accommodate the different shifter location. I will make an aluminium plate to join the BMW rubber shifter boot to the tunnel but wanted to repair the butchered opening beforehand. Engine comes out next as I Ive done enough for the installation for now. The body shell will go off for media blasting after Ive done a few more rust repairs and I really want to get the engine running on a test stand. Apart from visual inspections Ive got not real idea as to what sort of condition the engine is in so getting it running with the factory ECU and the BMW security system is now a priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kens 77z Posted April 4, 2011 Share Posted April 4, 2011 That shift opening repair is beautiful work for something nobody is ever going to see! I did however paint my gas lines and brackets yesterday after I took them out. I am putting a M52 w/ M50 intake and electronics in my 77 280z. Since the fuel lines on the M52 are on the left side of the engine, I decided to move the fuel lines to the left side of the car so I would not have to cross the exahaust pipe. My engine is in without the wiring. I have completed the engine, transmission and shifter mounts and am working on rerouting gas lines and the exhaust. Then I will pull the engine and clean the engine bay and wire the engine up before putting it back in. It won't be a show car, but will be used on the road and for track days. Thanks to you and Ron (RTZ) for the inspiration. I won't have the hp you guys have, but with the M50 intake I figure I should be around 220 which is a big improvement over the 150hp of my 280z engine. It should be plenty for track days given my skill level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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